Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bob_the_Theurge 02-14-06, 02:24 AM	A question has come up in our local yahoogroup: how do you adjudicate the creation of items when a player has the option to "cast" a spell once per day from an item. The example given: A caster with Create Wondrous Item wishes to craft a Strand of Prayer Beads. He has an item which allows him to cast Order's Wrath (the spell required for one of the beads) once per day, and wishes to use this item to do the casting rather than purchasing 26 scrolls of the same spell, scrolls which he cannot use anyways because he does not have the Law domain. Please help. The LGCS addresses scrolls, but not access to cast spells from another item-type source.
Arvagor 02-14-06, 09:41 AM	He has an item which allows him to cast Order's Wrath (the spell required for one of the beads) once per day, and wishes to use this item to do the casting rather than purchasing 26 scrolls of the same spell, scrolls which he cannot use anyways because he does not have the Law domain.Although I have no idea what this item is, it seems to me that if he can't cast the spell (order's wrath) via scrolls, why would he be able to cast it from something else? And if he can, then it also seems to me that it would not truly be the same spell and, might therefore not meet the creation requirement...
Iswald 02-14-06, 11:11 AM	A large number of wonderous items allow the casting of various spells without the requirement of having it on your spell list, or even having a spell list.
Arvagor 02-14-06, 11:53 AM	A large number of wonderous items allow the casting of various spells without the requirement of having it on your spell list, or even having a spell list.I understand that; my rogue is quite fond of such items in fact :D My point was, that without knowing what this item is that grants the free "casting" of order's wrath in the first place, we can't know whether it can be used to create other items. For example, my aforementioned rogue has a hat of disguise, the effect of which is it "...allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell." In effect, activating the hat casts disguise self on my PC. Could the hat be used to create dust of illusion, or a robe of blending, or glamered armor? IMO, no. That's why we need to know what the order's wrath item does in the first place, and what the actual description is...
Bob_the_Theurge 02-14-06, 02:44 PM	I can't get to his original email right now (Yahoogroups is down) but for Order's Wrath see the SRD: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/spells/Orders_Wrath.html The description of the item, as explained to me, states that it allows the wearer to CAST the spell once per day using the item.
redgamer 02-14-06, 03:00 PM	I don't see a problem with this. If the item works like a scroll with infinite uses then it can be used to create items. If it create a spell like effect then probably not. You'll have to post the exact text but it sounds like it works. You can't craft a partial strand of prayer so you have to be able to cast the other spells. Can said character cast every spell but orders wrath? edit: I'll assume yes from you original post
A'Talsen 02-15-06, 07:57 PM	A question has come up in our local yahoogroup: how do you adjudicate the creation of items when a player has the option to "cast" a spell once per day from an item. The example given: A caster with Create Wondrous Item wishes to craft a Strand of Prayer Beads. He has an item which allows him to cast Order's Wrath (the spell required for one of the beads) once per day, and wishes to use this item to do the casting rather than purchasing 26 scrolls of the same spell, scrolls which he cannot use anyways because he does not have the Law domain. Please help. The LGCS addresses scrolls, but not access to cast spells from another item-type source. The basic answer is 'no' since wonderous items are neither 'spell completion' nor 'spell trigger' items. From the SRD: A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite. Michael "Fish" Murphy
WotC_Tulach 02-15-06, 11:36 PM	The basic answer is 'no' since wonderous items are neither 'spell completion' nor 'spell trigger' items. Michael is correct.
redgamer 02-16-06, 12:20 AM	Isn't there a good chance that the magic item produces a "spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect"? If that were the case and since we don't know the wording of the item it may be would the item be usable for MIC?