Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stexe 02-07-06, 12:56 PM	Is there any reason why the Jinnbond feat does NOT give the +4 resistance and the +2 saving throw DC to the associated energy from the element (Earth = Acid, Air = Electricity, Fire = Fire, Water = Cold)? Jinnbond (Efreeti [Fire]) is far better than any other of the Jinnbond choices and kindof makes the others seem pointless. For example, the Jinnbond for air gives a +2 saving throw DC to spells with the subtype [Air], of which there are only 3 (in the PHB) that require saving throws, compared to spells with the subtype [Fire] of which there are 11. If Jinnbond for air was given to both [Air] and [Electricity] they would have a combined total of 7 spells (3 of [Air] and 4 of [Electricity]) which is much closer to the 11 of [Fire]. Because this feat will rarely see any use outside of Living Greyhawk, and because it is a Dragon magazine article (thus no errata will be used to fix it any time soon) I think that the LGCS staff should consider changing it to better reflect the idea that the feat was intended for. Please rebalance and adjust this feat in the LGCS, for it will benefit us all. Thank you, and please pass on this message to anyone who has the power to make this change.
haferka 02-07-06, 01:58 PM	Since the RPGA doesnt actually change the rules. (they only make decisions on interpreting the rules as presented). You probably want to complain to the D&D general forum, and/or the paizo.com/dragon/messageboards forum.
Stexe 02-07-06, 06:26 PM	Well -- that isn't always true. In their "interpretation" of the rules, they do change some of them. And they could interpret that Jinnbond gives bonuses to the associated elemental energy type in addition to the listed subtypes. I think I have a better chance of them changing the feat here than Paizo / Dragon have of changing an already published feat that they have not even posted online (yet?), despite what they claimed.
shuntsbe 04-08-06, 05:51 PM	I noticed the discrepency as well. I suggest going with Efreeti...
Rawveggie 04-10-06, 05:30 PM	Hello, I agree with haferka, this is not the forum for getting the D&D rules to change. However, I would like to point out that one of the most discussed spells from the Spell Compendium is Binding Winds, which is very effective (putting it mildly) and has the [Air] descriptor. Granted, a Sorcerer would need to take the Arcane Disciple feat to get access to it, but it would be very worth it. There are a few more spells in the Spell Compendium with the [Air] descriptor and while none of them are Core access, they are pretty handy spells that I would request a special mission for. But regardless of all of that, there is nothing that says feats need to be balanced. There are people that may just want the Jinnbond feat for background flavor with an occassional perk here and there. Besides, there is nothing saying that you have to take any feat you don't feel is balanced. -Raw
Iswald 04-10-06, 10:55 PM	I agree with haferka, this is not the forum for getting the D&D rules to change. However, I would like to point out that one of the most discussed spells from the Spell Compendium is Binding Winds, which is very effective (putting it mildly) and has the [Air] descriptor. Granted, a Sorcerer would need to take the Arcane Disciple feat to get access to it, but it would be very worth it. There are a few more spells in the Spell Compendium with the [Air] descriptor and while none of them are Core access, they are pretty handy spells that I would request a special mission for. I suppose Binding Winds is effective, if you're willing to give up your standard action every round to maintain concentration. Also, the only way to get the spell at present is to be a druid as the windstorm domain is not currently available (and may never be). But, this does point out that you can't look solely at the PHB to determine whether or not the different forms of Jinnbond are equally valuable. More books results in more spells, undoubtedly, some will be spells that work with Jinnbond.
Rawveggie 04-11-06, 12:27 AM	I suppose Binding Winds is effective, if you're willing to give up your standard action every round to maintain concentration. Also, the only way to get the spell at present is to be a druid as the windstorm domain is not currently available (and may never be). Why would the Windstorm domain not be available? It is listed as Core access and it was simply renamed from Weather. There are multiple gods that can be picked as a character that have the Weather domain on their list of domains. Is there some sort of specific exclusion I'm missing? -Raw
Iswald 04-11-06, 11:21 PM	I had forgotten that the domain changed names.
Stexe 04-13-06, 11:02 AM	The feat specifically says only spells cast as a Sorc, therefore you would have to get it on your Sorc spell list. It isn't this feat that is the problem per se, it is the way Fire spells are imbalanced. Both spells that are elemental in nature or relate to fire are both [Fire] subtype. However, there is a distinction between [Air] and [Electricity], [Earth] and [Acid], and [Water] and [Cold] which results in Fire being much more powerful. I've calculated the number of spells (in SpC also) that are [Fire] and compared them to spells with other types and if the change occured it would dramatically balance it out (Fire would still be slightly more powerful but others would be on a much more equal footing). I am currently writing up a Special Mission to ask for Elemental Savant and some limited elemental evocation spells that fit the theme of my character. Hopefully, the special mission will pan out soon.
Rawveggie 04-13-06, 03:26 PM	The feat specifically says only spells cast as a Sorc, therefore you would have to get it on your Sorc spell list. Which is exactly why I mentioned the Arcane Disciple feat, to get the spells on your Sorcerer spell list. -Raw
Stexe 04-13-06, 03:47 PM	Which is exactly why I mentioned the Arcane Disciple feat, to get the spells on your Sorcerer spell list. -Raw Uhm, yes I know, I wasn't saying otherwise. I was simply clarifying for the comments above, not yours. And the fact of the matter is still the same. If you tally EVER spell with the descriptors [Air], [Fire], [Earth], [Water], [Acid], [Cold], and [Electricity] ... [Fire] is still a huge majority and overpowers anything else. I'm saying that to rebalance feats like Jinnbond they need to be reworded to include "[Air] subtype and its elemental energy equivilant [Electricity]" which then balances it out.
Stexe 04-13-06, 03:50 PM	Another solution, which would involve much more drastic changes, would be to create a different elemental energy for [Fire]. Instead of [Fire] being both the element AND the energy type, there should be a difference just like all the other elements have. I'm not sure what you would call it, maybe [Heat] or something, but that would really balance the spells out.
Casebier 04-13-06, 04:33 PM	For those of you who don't remember, there used to be a Quasi-Elemental Plane of Lightning (Air+Positive), but all of those Para- and Quasi- planes were removed in 3.0. When Wizards removed those planes, they should have either expanded what energy types were associated with the main 4 or 7, or removed all energy types that used to have a plane but no longer do now [Lightning]. :D NOTE - I'm being sarcastic with the second part of that sentence. John Jr
Stexe 04-13-06, 08:20 PM	For those of you who don't remember, there used to be a Quasi-Elemental Plane of Lightning (Air+Positive), but all of those Para- and Quasi- planes were removed in 3.0. When Wizards removed those planes, they should have either expanded what energy types were associated with the main 4 or 7, or removed all energy types that used to have a plane but no longer do now [Lightning]. :D NOTE - I'm being sarcastic with the second part of that sentence. John Jr LoL, nice one. Although technically they weren't "removed," they just haven't really been mentioned as stand alone Planes. There are still para- and quasi- elementals that have to come from somewhere, and are mentioned that they come from the boarding location between the Elemental Planes. I never liked the 3e version of the Planes anyways, I'm an old school Planescape type of guy. =) I miss Shadow plane as either a demi-plane in the Ethereal or as an Inner Plane. Those were the good old days.