Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slvrwlf 08-26-07, 12:01 AM	I was wondering about a few of the rules for RPGA. I'm used to playing home games,(been away for about 3 years). And I'm now trying to play the RPGA way. Question 1: Why does a player have to buy treasure found in an adventure. For instance. In a mod, the group comes across a +1 sword. At the end of the mod you have the option to buy the sword. Why the buy? Didn't we just find it? Wasn't that part of the adventure. And since we have to buy it, why at full price. If we have to pay full price for it, why not just go to a shop and buy it there. Question 2: If a feat is not listed on either the open list or the closed list, how does one get it? As I stated I'm just starting out. Only played in two mods now, but I did have those questions. Thanks
andinel 08-26-07, 01:09 AM	1. RPGA wealth is based off of a wealth progression that is supposed to balance across character levels (for that campaign). Think of it this way: your DM wouldn't give you both a magic sword AND the gp that it is worth in a regular game. They'd give you the sword and subtract its cost from the gold you'd normally receive. At least, that's how I see it. 2. If the feat you want isn't from a list of restricted feats or from a restricted book, you can take it as per the rules in your campaign standards. If the book it's from isn't on the list at all, you can't take it. Hope that helps.
frupton 08-26-07, 01:19 AM	I was wondering about a few of the rules for RPGA. I'm used to playing home games,(been away for about 3 years). And I'm now trying to play the RPGA way. Question 1: Why does a player have to buy treasure found in an adventure. For instance. In a mod, the group comes across a +1 sword. At the end of the mod you have the option to buy the sword. Why the buy? Didn't we just find it? Wasn't that part of the adventure. And since we have to buy it, why at full price. If we have to pay full price for it, why not just go to a shop and buy it there. Question 2: If a feat is not listed on either the open list or the closed list, how does one get it? As I stated I'm just starting out. Only played in two mods now, but I did have those questions. Thanks Q1) Andinel basically answered this. Another way to look at it is that the intent is to prevent certain characters from becoming too much wealthier than other characters of the same level. If some of them are paying full price for their items and others are paying half price, it creates an imbalance. (Note that other things such as crafting also create an imbalance, but the idea of banning crafting has proved unpopular. And at least the crafters have to spend a feat and some TU's.) Q2) If it's not on either the open or the closed list, you can access it only if you find specific campaign documentation granting such access. The most common way of finding this is on adventure records.
ShinAkuma2 08-26-07, 01:37 AM	Question 1: Why does a player have to buy treasure found in an adventure. For instance. In a mod, the group comes across a +1 sword. At the end of the mod you have the option to buy the sword. Why the buy? Didn't we just find it? Wasn't that part of the adventure. And since we have to buy it, why at full price. If we have to pay full price for it, why not just go to a shop and buy it there. What happens if more than one person wants that sword? What happens if no one wants the sword? It's set up the way it is so that everyone gets an equal amount of gp worth of treasure. Otherwise, it'd be too easy for some characters to have long streaks of absolutely no advancement through items, since they were "given" nothing, as well as the opposite problem of a character playing a series of mods and having unimaginable cosmic powers dumped into his lap at no cost.
Timlagor 08-26-07, 06:20 AM	NB: read the blurb above the Open/Closed lists.
kenobi65 08-26-07, 01:08 PM	As others have said, it's done to keep things equitable, and to make PC wealth fairly predictable. Let's suppose that LG used a "cert" (certificate) system, like most other Living campaigns have, and that there's a +1 longsword in the treasure pile. At APL 2, the total treasure for all 6 PCs is going to be in the range of 2700 gp (450 gp is the "cap" for one PC at APL 2). That +1 longsword is worth 2315 gp, leaving only 385 gp in treasure for the other 5 PCs to divide up. So, one PC is going to get 2315 gp worth of treasure, and the other 5 will each get an average of 77 gp. Depending on the vagaries of how the treasure works out in the modules you play, you could wind up well under, or well over, where the game mechanics assume you *will* be. Another issue with certs is that, in most games, they're transferrable. I can "trade" to you certs that I don't want / need anymore. What I've frequently seen happen in cert-based games is that higher-level PCs will give a new PC a bunch of certs -- items that they don't need anymore, but that wind up giving the new PC way too much power. When I first started playing Living City, my 1st level bard suddenly found himself (thanks to the generosity of friends of mine who were long-time players) with +3 bracers, a +1 rapier, several wands, etc., etc. The LG staff decided that this was something they didn't want to see happen.
UMiskatonic 08-31-07, 03:39 PM	Suppose nothin'. Living Greyhawk DID have a cert system, and while it seemed like a great idea, it lead to overall mayhem and unfairness. 1) There's the low-level guy with overpowered gear (see above). 2) There's the obnoxious guy who demands every cert, every time. 3) There's the genuinely nice person who usually lets the other person have the item if they really want it. By 10th level, they have 54 gold and a MW pencil. 4) There's the unique item, key to the regional storyline, that just disappeared because the person who has it was 'just trying out the game'. and never intend to play again. 5) Arguments at the end of every mod, as 6 people try to divide 10 objects of different value. So, the less-intuitive system actually works far better in practice.
Istaran 08-31-07, 06:34 PM	And since we have to buy it, why at full price. If we have to pay full price for it, why not just go to a shop and buy it there. Since everyone has answered everything else about this.. With a few exceptions (such as Intro mods and the results of changes in the Open list), the items listed on your AR as accessible are items that you could not normally find/buy in a shop. When you sell auto-sell something at the end of a mod, you know how to track it down (at least temporarily) and reaquire it.. and presumably that lets you find the guy who deals in them and can find more, since everyone in the party can buy the same item you found one of... The only time this system really irked me was when a mod had a ring that permanently reduces your HP by 2 the first time you put it on.. I stupidly put it on (hoping it was a +1 pro ring or something) in the mod and at the end I could neither get my HP back nor the ring (as it cost much more than that character had in cash at any time during his entire life).
rpgdcj 09-04-07, 05:41 PM	The only time this system really irked me was when a mod had a ring that permanently reduces your HP by 2 the first time you put it on.. I stupidly put it on (hoping it was a +1 pro ring or something) in the mod and at the end I could neither get my HP back nor the ring (as it cost much more than that character had in cash at any time during his entire life). That doesn't make sense. It's clearly a cursed item, which shouldn't cost you anything to have, and can only be discarded as listed on the AR. Of course, selling a cursed item gains you 0 gp anyway. So, even if the mod is written that PCs who put on the ring gain a -2 HP curse, it's pretty much the same as running across an evil necromancer who curses you directly with the same HP loss. Either way, you lose 2 HP. That alone is enough to irk you, but not being able to have the ring after the mod is over shouldn't add to the annoyance.
copper_wyrmling 09-04-07, 06:11 PM	That doesn't make sense. It's clearly a cursed item, which shouldn't cost you anything to have, and can only be discarded as listed on the AR. Of course, selling a cursed item gains you 0 gp anyway. So, even if the mod is written that PCs who put on the ring gain a -2 HP curse, it's pretty much the same as running across an evil necromancer who curses you directly with the same HP loss. Either way, you lose 2 HP. That alone is enough to irk you, but not being able to have the ring after the mod is over shouldn't add to the annoyance. That ring can be removed freely - doing so just doesn't restore your hit points. It's from a retired mod, so I guess I can describe it - it's an ancient necromancer's ring that gives you +1 caster level on necromancy spells, but the first time you put it on, it permanently reduces your HP by 2. Also, if I remember correctly it's Core access, so it can be bought much later on. I ran six tables of Undermountain at GenCon UK, and slot-zeroed all three Undermountain mods on offer there. It was interesting to watch the dynamics when the certs were divided at the end, but I wouldn't want to play a campaign that way - I saw multiple examples of everything UMiskatonic described, except for the "key unique item" (since there weren't any).
awroe 09-04-07, 06:36 PM	3) There's the genuinely nice person who usually lets the other person have the item if they really want it. By 10th level, they have 54 gold and a MW pencil. I ended up with three MW pencils, but a lot less than 54 gold. (GenCon UK pencils *are* masterwork, right?) The main issue I found with certs is it took a *lot* longer to end the table as you have to do all the decisions then and there, and players can't even prep a shopping list in advance as you don't know what is available. AW.