Karmic Strike, Rage, and Bear Warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Karmic Strike, Rage, and Bear Warrior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bhale187
02-07-07, 03:32 PM Can Karmic Strike be used while in rage, the rage description lists only combat expertise as a feat unuseable while enraged (ignoring magic feats). However it also says any ability requiring concentration can not be used. Also it would seem that Karmic strike would require the same or more concentration that expertise requires.

Also, is the bear warrior considered enraged while in bear form? The descriptions suggest it is a form of rage, but it does not specify the inability to use any feats or abilities as barbarian Rage and frenzy.
LachlarlanIII
02-07-07, 03:43 PM If you lose access to a feat or skill, you lose access to all other feats and skills that use the original as a base.

Yes to the second. Bear Form states when you Rage you may take the form of a bear.
LachlarlanIII
02-07-07, 04:07 PM For those of us that like to see quoted text:

From the SRD: Feats section:

PREREQUISITES
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
chesspiece
02-07-07, 04:38 PM You don’t lose Combat Expertise, you just can’t use it. There’s a big difference.

From SRD Rage, Barbarian:
"He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats."

Note that it doesn't restrict feats that are dependant on Combat Expertise. Nor does it say you lose Combat Expertise; only that you can't use it.

If you lost Combat Expertise (due to Int damage), then the feats for which it is a prereq become unusable. If you can’t use it (due to rage), then you can still use Feats (Improved Trip) and Prestige Class abilities (Dervish) that depend on it.

From the FAQ “Can a character wearing heavy armor use Whirlwind Attack (Player’s Handbook, page 102)? A character cannot use Spring Attack (Player’s Handbook, page 100), a prerequisite for this feat, in heavy armor.
Just because you’re barred from benefiting from a feat doesn’t mean that you don’t have it any more. A character incapable of using Spring Attack due to wearing heavy armor still has the feat, and thus still meets the prerequisites for Whirlwind Attack.”

It isn't an easy thing to debate at the table and it still isn't as explicit as it could be. The best thing to do is point out the word "use" (Bbn Rage) and "using" (FAQ). Table variation may still occur.
Mommy was an Orc
02-07-07, 04:43 PM The FAQ says otherwise on page 30 - a character in heavy armor can't use Spring Attack, but he still has the feat. This is generally interpreted to mean that someone Raging still has the feat Combat Expertise and therefore can use feats further up the chain. A person who has lost a prerequisite - say someone who was using a Headband of Intellect to qualify for Combat Expertise and it turns off, can no longer use Combat Expertise while that's true.
Iswald
02-09-07, 09:33 AM In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike.
dkay807
02-09-07, 09:36 AM In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike.

That is a blatantly incorrect statement.
Mommy was an Orc
02-09-07, 09:51 AM In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike.

You don't use combat expertise to do that. You simply choose to take a penalty of -4 to your AC. Combat Expertise can only be used to add a bonus to your AC.
Iswald
02-10-07, 03:20 AM Ya'all have weird ideas. You should apply more logic to how the feats must work together to make any sense at all. What's the point of including combat expertise as a prereq for karmic strike?
ShinAkuma2
02-10-07, 04:00 AM Karmic Strike takes the parrying aspect of Combat Expertise to the next level by actually attacking when your opponent does, rather than simply deflecting blows.
Mommy was an Orc
02-10-07, 04:34 AM Ya'all have weird ideas. You should apply more logic to how the feats must work together to make any sense at all. What's the point of including combat expertise as a prereq for karmic strike?

What's the point of including Spring Attack as a prereq for Whirlwind, when you can use Whirlwind in Heavy Armor and cannot use Spring Attack in Heavy Armor?

Again, page 30 of the FAQ is explicit - the temporary inability to use a feat is not the same thing as not having it. Not qualifying for the feat in the first place is a problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bhale187 02-07-07, 03:32 PM	Can Karmic Strike be used while in rage, the rage description lists only combat expertise as a feat unuseable while enraged (ignoring magic feats). However it also says any ability requiring concentration can not be used. Also it would seem that Karmic strike would require the same or more concentration that expertise requires. Also, is the bear warrior considered enraged while in bear form? The descriptions suggest it is a form of rage, but it does not specify the inability to use any feats or abilities as barbarian Rage and frenzy.
LachlarlanIII 02-07-07, 03:43 PM	If you lose access to a feat or skill, you lose access to all other feats and skills that use the original as a base. Yes to the second. Bear Form states when you Rage you may take the form of a bear.
LachlarlanIII 02-07-07, 04:07 PM	For those of us that like to see quoted text: From the SRD: Feats section: PREREQUISITES Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
chesspiece 02-07-07, 04:38 PM	You don’t lose Combat Expertise, you just can’t use it. There’s a big difference. From SRD Rage, Barbarian: "He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats." Note that it doesn't restrict feats that are dependant on Combat Expertise. Nor does it say you lose Combat Expertise; only that you can't use it. If you lost Combat Expertise (due to Int damage), then the feats for which it is a prereq become unusable. If you can’t use it (due to rage), then you can still use Feats (Improved Trip) and Prestige Class abilities (Dervish) that depend on it. From the FAQ “Can a character wearing heavy armor use Whirlwind Attack (Player’s Handbook, page 102)? A character cannot use Spring Attack (Player’s Handbook, page 100), a prerequisite for this feat, in heavy armor. Just because you’re barred from benefiting from a feat doesn’t mean that you don’t have it any more. A character incapable of using Spring Attack due to wearing heavy armor still has the feat, and thus still meets the prerequisites for Whirlwind Attack.” It isn't an easy thing to debate at the table and it still isn't as explicit as it could be. The best thing to do is point out the word "use" (Bbn Rage) and "using" (FAQ). Table variation may still occur.
Mommy was an Orc 02-07-07, 04:43 PM	The FAQ says otherwise on page 30 - a character in heavy armor can't use Spring Attack, but he still has the feat. This is generally interpreted to mean that someone Raging still has the feat Combat Expertise and therefore can use feats further up the chain. A person who has lost a prerequisite - say someone who was using a Headband of Intellect to qualify for Combat Expertise and it turns off, can no longer use Combat Expertise while that's true.
Iswald 02-09-07, 09:33 AM	In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike.
dkay807 02-09-07, 09:36 AM	In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike. That is a blatantly incorrect statement.
Mommy was an Orc 02-09-07, 09:51 AM	In order to use karmic strike, you have to use combat expertise (to adjust your AC). If you're raging, you wouldn't be able to adjust your AC with expertise to take advantage of karmic strike. You don't use combat expertise to do that. You simply choose to take a penalty of -4 to your AC. Combat Expertise can only be used to add a bonus to your AC.
Iswald 02-10-07, 03:20 AM	Ya'all have weird ideas. You should apply more logic to how the feats must work together to make any sense at all. What's the point of including combat expertise as a prereq for karmic strike?
ShinAkuma2 02-10-07, 04:00 AM	Karmic Strike takes the parrying aspect of Combat Expertise to the next level by actually attacking when your opponent does, rather than simply deflecting blows.
Mommy was an Orc 02-10-07, 04:34 AM	Ya'all have weird ideas. You should apply more logic to how the feats must work together to make any sense at all. What's the point of including combat expertise as a prereq for karmic strike? What's the point of including Spring Attack as a prereq for Whirlwind, when you can use Whirlwind in Heavy Armor and cannot use Spring Attack in Heavy Armor? Again, page 30 of the FAQ is explicit - the temporary inability to use a feat is not the same thing as not having it. Not qualifying for the feat in the first place is a problem.