Post/Author/DateTime	Post
seraphimpunk 08-06-07, 12:56 PM	got a question about choosing Kelanen as my deity for a character. kelanen's listed on page 91 of the deities of living greyhawk pdf. It litsts favored weapon(s) as any martial sword (m). is it possible to choose a great falchion ( or any other exotic sword ) as your favored weapon when taking Kelanen?
sethwms 08-06-07, 01:06 PM	Just martial swords.
_metz_ 08-06-07, 10:12 PM	I would like to point out however: that bonus feats gained in this matter and the prereq feats apply to exotic uses of a martial sword. Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Covers both +1 to hit when one handed AND when two handed. (However some argue the cleric bonus feat doesn't apply to non maritial use, ETV on that one) Weapon Spec (e.g: from Pious Templar) covers both +2 damage on either use again. The effect is tied to the weapon, not the fighting style/use. This is all kind of trivial, but Uncanny Blow is REALLY good, so its worth knowing about. <I use a Fighter Of Kelanen with a Bastard Sword>
clannagh 08-07-07, 02:28 AM	I would like to point out however: that bonus feats gained in this matter and the prereq feats apply to exotic uses of a martial sword. Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Covers both +1 to hit when one handed AND when two handed. (However some argue the cleric bonus feat doesn't apply to non maritial use, ETV on that one) Weapon Spec (e.g: from Pious Templar) covers both +2 damage on either use again. The effect is tied to the weapon, not the fighting style/use. This is all kind of trivial, but Uncanny Blow is REALLY good, so its worth knowing about. <I use a Fighter Of Kelanen with a Bastard Sword> With regard to clerics. When this was argued out over Mayaheine last year the general consensus was you got weapon focus in her favored weapon .. a bastard sword used as a martial weapon .. and thus it only applied two handed. A few people argued that the one weapon could not be both exotic and martial and hence it appled to both single and double handed use however my recollection is they were a minority. So yes ETV on the cleric but the variation may be more often towards not getting the +1 to hit when single handed. As a consequence if you are using a cleric weapon focus to qualify for Pious Templar then you may well find the weapon specialisation only works for the martial double handed swings as well. I agree that if you take the feat weapon focus as a feat it applies to both modes of use. The pious templar wording for the specialisation however says specifically "deities favored weapon" so be aware this issue is likely to arise here as well. If you make one of these builds you must expect table variation and just accept it gracefully. There are numerous long threads on this issue and there is no clearcut raw answer. NOTE: There is a reasonably valid argument that gaining the actual feat in the deities weapon also happens as a side effect to give you the specialisation in all variants of the weapon. This seems reasonable valid. Basically these builds are contentious and its bad form to argue it out at the table with a GM so unless you always play with the same GMs be prepared to have parts of your characters build restricted occasionally. A separate issue ... Many GMs rule that a Kelanon cleric must choose WHICH martial sword they are using at the time they become a cleric and stick to that particular type of sword thereafter. Once again expect table variation on this.
Timlagor 08-07-07, 02:52 PM	BSwords are not martial weapons. They are Exotic 1H swords that can be used 2-handed with only martial proficiency -the PHB is really clear. [but then Mayaheine Deities Doc came along *sigh*] I'm pretty sure you have to pick a sword for the WF if you take the War Domain but see no reason you couldn't use other swords.
clannagh 08-07-07, 07:51 PM	I'm pretty sure you have to pick a sword for the WF if you take the War Domain but see no reason you couldn't use other swords. Thats my reading on it .. you can use any sword without violating the oath but must choose one particular sword as the type receiving Kelanen's favor. BSwords are not martial weapons. They are Exotic 1H swords that can be used 2-handed with only martial proficiency -the PHB is really clear. [but then Mayaheine came along *sigh*] Well its more like .. "then the Dieties document came along" : Any martial sword indicates a shortsword, longsword, greatsword, falchion, scimitar and rapier. It also indicates any other weapon that is both defined as a sword and as a martial weapon, thus a bastard sword wielded two handed meets this definition. This paragraph is the reason most people rule Mayaheine clerics only get war domain weapon focus when swinging the weapon two handed. The situation with Gendwar (favored weapon Dwarven Waraxe (exotic) ) is less confusing as they "treat" the weapon as martial but effectively it is still an exotic weapon and does not cause any issues for most DMs. My personal approach is to disallow the cleric War Domain based weapon focus and Pious Templar specialisation for instances like a Kelanen Cleric swinging a bastard sword one handed but allow the Pious Templar weapon specialisation if the qualifying weapon focus comes from actually taking the weapon focus feat. I assume what would happen if a Kelanen worshipper took the weapon focus feat in a more than one sword and then went Pious templar they would need to choose which sword the Pious Templar WS applied to. Basically I was just warning the original poster to be aware that builds like this can get table variation.
_metz_ 08-08-07, 03:28 AM	The situation with Gendwar (favored weapon Dwarven Waraxe (exotic) ) is less confusing as they "treat" the weapon as martial but effectively it is still an exotic weapon and does not cause any issues for most DMs. My personal approach is to disallow the cleric War Domain based weapon focus and Pious Templar specialisation for instances like a Kelanen Cleric swinging a bastard sword one handed but allow the Pious Templar weapon specialisation if the qualifying weapon focus comes from actually taking the weapon focus feat. That is my interpretation of it also. I agree in suggesting to any maker of such a build NOT to rely on free weapon focus, in order to utilise a bastard sword with uncanny blow etc.
Timlagor 08-08-07, 08:40 AM	That's the one Clannagh: "thus a bastard sword.. meets this definition" is quite simply a lie but being where it is it redefines the BSword to make it fit arbitrarily.
clannagh 08-08-07, 10:08 PM	That's the one Clannagh: "thus a bastard sword.. meets this definition" is quite simply a lie but being where it is it redefines the BSword to make it fit arbitrarily. I honestly do not understand why they needed to make favored weapons specifically martial or exotic. Fair enough the war domain grants martial proficiencies but how is that relevant? I see no reason why Mayaheine could not have been plain old "Bastard Sword", Gendwar simply "Dwarven Waraxe" and Kelanen "all swords". All these restrictions seem to have achieved is an ongoing series of semi pointless rules arguments.
_metz_ 08-09-07, 12:00 AM	Well seeing as the deities document is only a few days away. (As of 2005) Hopefully these issues will be dealt with.