LGCS 597 draft Table Analysis: Open Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

LGCS 597 draft Table Analysis: Open Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kjenks
02-08-07, 02:34 PM Like many of you, I'm going through the document to figure out what changed. Here's what changed in the Open Spells access rules.

Added:

(None)

Deleted:

Divine Insight (SpC)
Last Breath (SpC)

Alphabetized wrong:

Ghostform (SpC)
Infernal Threnody (SpC)
Iron Silence (SpC)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (SpC)
Renewal Pact (SpC)
Speechlink (SpC)
Thornskin (SpC)

Changed books:

Hound of Doom (SpC, was CW) – a mistake, since Hound of Doom is not in SpC.
Britt
02-08-07, 02:37 PM All fixed in my copy. Thanks, Ken.
LCJJohnson
02-09-07, 03:56 PM Here is as good a place as any....

So, Healers (and Clerics, etc) require AR access to use the spell Close Wounds?

I am working on a new character, and on the spell lists of existing characters, so I want to make sure I get it right.

LCJJ
kjenks
02-09-07, 04:05 PM Under the current LGCS 596CY rules, Close Wounds is Limited.

Under the draft LGCS 597CY rules, Close Wounds is NONC, neither Open nor Closed.

So you'd need other campaign documentation granting access to the spell.
LCJJohnson
02-09-07, 04:05 PM Additional question:

Why is Spell Immunity open, but Spell Immunity, Lesser is NONC?
Thrall_Of_Ao
02-11-07, 11:02 AM [FONT="Palatino Linotype"]Greetings All,

I noticed that at least one particular spell was listed on neither the "Open" nor the "Closed spell list in the new LGCS document.

Does that mean that the spell is allowed until put on the "Closed" list, or that is is not allowed to be cast until put upon the "Open" list?

I would tend to agree wit the former, as the spell does appear on the "Core" list of spells allowed to be cast in the former LGCS document. If this is agreed, then would this be the case for all such situations (Core book, "formerly" Core spell, no listing)?

Thanks,
-ToA
pedr
02-11-07, 12:20 PM All PH spells which are not specifically Closed are Open (Page 9, top of col 1). All non PH spells which are not specifically Open are unavailable until you have campaign documentation making it Open for a particular character.

What's the spell?
Timlagor
02-11-07, 06:01 PM If you already have the spell then you can keep using it (unless/until it becomes Closed).

I don't think it matters if you got it under access from LGCS596 so long as you did so before it was supplanted.
Paul H
02-11-07, 06:46 PM Hi

Is Divine Protection another NONC?

Cheers
Paul H
solbergb
02-11-07, 07:17 PM divine protection has always been Limited and thus is unsurprisingly now NONC.
Thrall_Of_Ao
02-11-07, 07:34 PM All PH spells which are not specifically Closed are Open (Page 9, top of col 1). All non PH spells which are not specifically Open are unavailable until you have campaign documentation making it Open for a particular character.

What's the spell?

Pedr,
Yes, I would agree with you if it were regarding an arcane spell, but the spell I'm referring to is divine (meaning all spells of the appropriate level are effectively available without all that bothersome collecting and scribing).

In actuality, there are several spells that aren't listed, my current character is only able to cast the one currently. So the specific spell is irrelevant.

Thanks for the feedback.

-ToA
Timlagor
02-11-07, 07:53 PM Ahhhh.
Yeah noncy Divine spells are harder to keep.

I wonder what happens if you own a scroll of a now-noncy spell without having it on an AR...
pedr
02-12-07, 08:21 AM I must be missing something obvious, but how did you get a scroll of a limited spell without it being on an AR? I didn't think anything which was Core is now NONC.

I'm sure I'm being silly and you can point out what the actual circumstance is, but I can't see it right now.
Timlagor
02-12-07, 01:27 PM Ahh. I was assuming it was a Core spell and now noncy (cleric crafted the scroll). If there are no such examples then it's not a problem.
pedr
02-12-07, 01:36 PM Pedr,
Yes, I would agree with you if it were regarding an arcane spell, but the spell I'm referring to is divine (meaning all spells of the appropriate level are effectively available without all that bothersome collecting and scribing).

In actuality, there are several spells that aren't listed, my current character is only able to cast the one currently. So the specific spell is irrelevant.

Thanks for the feedback.

-ToAI'm still not understanding the question. Unless, as timlagor says, this is a spell which used to be Core and now isn't, how did you cast the spell previously?

There are loads of spells which aren't listed - the majority of the Spell Compendium and almost all of CM and P2. As previously, you can only cast these spells if you have a piece of official LG documentation which expressly tells you that you can. As far as we're all assuming, anything which says you have core access to something, or which says you can choose a particular limited spell will work for that, despite the terminology change.

Note that a cleric must purchase a divine scroll in order to have access to the spell if the spell isn't listed as Open.
martin_knoff
02-12-07, 02:51 PM There appear to be a couple more spells that moved from Core to NONC, but some of them are irrelevant or cleanups:

Bane Bow (SpC)
Chameleon (SpC)
Force Whip (SpC)
Improved Blink (SpC)
Leomund's Hidden Lodge (SpC)
Otiluke's Dispelling Screen (SpC)
Otiluke's Greater Dispelling Screen (SpC)
Superior Invisibility (SpC)
Wraithstrike (SpC)

Improved Blink is a correction I believe as Blink, Greater is left open.
If I remember correctly, Force Whip never made it into SpC, but I don't have my books handy to verify.

Martin.
Britt
02-12-07, 02:54 PM It doesn't look like those were in the 596 LGCS either.
martin_knoff
02-12-07, 02:58 PM That's wacky, because I printed out LGCS v5.0 Core Spells and they're all there.
Britt
02-12-07, 03:00 PM That's odd. I just looked through my 596 LGCS that I got from the WotC site not too long ago, and it doesn't have those spells anywhere.
martin_knoff
02-12-07, 03:04 PM That is indeed odd. The LGCS isn't even available right now for download (only the draft), so there's no way to check. My filename is LGCS_V5.0 if that helps clarify.
pedr
02-12-07, 03:17 PM I think, though might be wrong, that LGCS_V5.0 was the draft document.

When the final version ended up on the Wizards site it was LGCS596 (not sure if that was the exact filename). I don't think there was ever a final version of the document which was called 5.0 - so possibly you've been working from the draft?
martin_knoff
02-12-07, 03:21 PM It's possible, but if I remember correctly it wasn't a draft, just a version that wasn't fully formatted. AFAIK, there was supposed to be a "prettier" version released, but no content should have changed on it.

Apparently that was not accurate.

So nevermind my posts if that's the case. ;)

M.
Drezden
02-12-07, 09:47 PM FYI - Superior Invisibility is Core in both the 596 LGCS and the 597 Draft LGCS. However, it is under Invisibility, Superior.

Daren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 02-08-07, 02:34 PM	Like many of you, I'm going through the document to figure out what changed. Here's what changed in the Open Spells access rules. Added: (None) Deleted: Divine Insight (SpC) Last Breath (SpC) Alphabetized wrong: Ghostform (SpC) Infernal Threnody (SpC) Iron Silence (SpC) Rejuvenation Cocoon (SpC) Renewal Pact (SpC) Speechlink (SpC) Thornskin (SpC) Changed books: Hound of Doom (SpC, was CW) – a mistake, since Hound of Doom is not in SpC.
Britt 02-08-07, 02:37 PM	All fixed in my copy. Thanks, Ken.
LCJJohnson 02-09-07, 03:56 PM	Here is as good a place as any.... So, Healers (and Clerics, etc) require AR access to use the spell Close Wounds? I am working on a new character, and on the spell lists of existing characters, so I want to make sure I get it right. LCJJ
kjenks 02-09-07, 04:05 PM	Under the current LGCS 596CY rules, Close Wounds is Limited. Under the draft LGCS 597CY rules, Close Wounds is NONC, neither Open nor Closed. So you'd need other campaign documentation granting access to the spell.
LCJJohnson 02-09-07, 04:05 PM	Additional question: Why is Spell Immunity open, but Spell Immunity, Lesser is NONC?
Thrall_Of_Ao 02-11-07, 11:02 AM	[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]Greetings All, I noticed that at least one particular spell was listed on neither the "Open" nor the "Closed spell list in the new LGCS document. Does that mean that the spell is allowed until put on the "Closed" list, or that is is not allowed to be cast until put upon the "Open" list? I would tend to agree wit the former, as the spell does appear on the "Core" list of spells allowed to be cast in the former LGCS document. If this is agreed, then would this be the case for all such situations (Core book, "formerly" Core spell, no listing)? Thanks, -ToA
pedr 02-11-07, 12:20 PM	All PH spells which are not specifically Closed are Open (Page 9, top of col 1). All non PH spells which are not specifically Open are unavailable until you have campaign documentation making it Open for a particular character. What's the spell?
Timlagor 02-11-07, 06:01 PM	If you already have the spell then you can keep using it (unless/until it becomes Closed). I don't think it matters if you got it under access from LGCS596 so long as you did so before it was supplanted.
Paul H 02-11-07, 06:46 PM	Hi Is Divine Protection another NONC? Cheers Paul H
solbergb 02-11-07, 07:17 PM	divine protection has always been Limited and thus is unsurprisingly now NONC.
Thrall_Of_Ao 02-11-07, 07:34 PM	All PH spells which are not specifically Closed are Open (Page 9, top of col 1). All non PH spells which are not specifically Open are unavailable until you have campaign documentation making it Open for a particular character. What's the spell? Pedr, Yes, I would agree with you if it were regarding an arcane spell, but the spell I'm referring to is divine (meaning all spells of the appropriate level are effectively available without all that bothersome collecting and scribing). In actuality, there are several spells that aren't listed, my current character is only able to cast the one currently. So the specific spell is irrelevant. Thanks for the feedback. -ToA
Timlagor 02-11-07, 07:53 PM	Ahhhh. Yeah noncy Divine spells are harder to keep. I wonder what happens if you own a scroll of a now-noncy spell without having it on an AR...
pedr 02-12-07, 08:21 AM	I must be missing something obvious, but how did you get a scroll of a limited spell without it being on an AR? I didn't think anything which was Core is now NONC. I'm sure I'm being silly and you can point out what the actual circumstance is, but I can't see it right now.
Timlagor 02-12-07, 01:27 PM	Ahh. I was assuming it was a Core spell and now noncy (cleric crafted the scroll). If there are no such examples then it's not a problem.
pedr 02-12-07, 01:36 PM	Pedr, Yes, I would agree with you if it were regarding an arcane spell, but the spell I'm referring to is divine (meaning all spells of the appropriate level are effectively available without all that bothersome collecting and scribing). In actuality, there are several spells that aren't listed, my current character is only able to cast the one currently. So the specific spell is irrelevant. Thanks for the feedback. -ToAI'm still not understanding the question. Unless, as timlagor says, this is a spell which used to be Core and now isn't, how did you cast the spell previously? There are loads of spells which aren't listed - the majority of the Spell Compendium and almost all of CM and P2. As previously, you can only cast these spells if you have a piece of official LG documentation which expressly tells you that you can. As far as we're all assuming, anything which says you have core access to something, or which says you can choose a particular limited spell will work for that, despite the terminology change. Note that a cleric must purchase a divine scroll in order to have access to the spell if the spell isn't listed as Open.
martin_knoff 02-12-07, 02:51 PM	There appear to be a couple more spells that moved from Core to NONC, but some of them are irrelevant or cleanups: Bane Bow (SpC) Chameleon (SpC) Force Whip (SpC) Improved Blink (SpC) Leomund's Hidden Lodge (SpC) Otiluke's Dispelling Screen (SpC) Otiluke's Greater Dispelling Screen (SpC) Superior Invisibility (SpC) Wraithstrike (SpC) Improved Blink is a correction I believe as Blink, Greater is left open. If I remember correctly, Force Whip never made it into SpC, but I don't have my books handy to verify. Martin.
Britt 02-12-07, 02:54 PM	It doesn't look like those were in the 596 LGCS either.
martin_knoff 02-12-07, 02:58 PM	That's wacky, because I printed out LGCS v5.0 Core Spells and they're all there.
Britt 02-12-07, 03:00 PM	That's odd. I just looked through my 596 LGCS that I got from the WotC site not too long ago, and it doesn't have those spells anywhere.
martin_knoff 02-12-07, 03:04 PM	That is indeed odd. The LGCS isn't even available right now for download (only the draft), so there's no way to check. My filename is LGCS_V5.0 if that helps clarify.
pedr 02-12-07, 03:17 PM	I think, though might be wrong, that LGCS_V5.0 was the draft document. When the final version ended up on the Wizards site it was LGCS596 (not sure if that was the exact filename). I don't think there was ever a final version of the document which was called 5.0 - so possibly you've been working from the draft?
martin_knoff 02-12-07, 03:21 PM	It's possible, but if I remember correctly it wasn't a draft, just a version that wasn't fully formatted. AFAIK, there was supposed to be a "prettier" version released, but no content should have changed on it. Apparently that was not accurate. So nevermind my posts if that's the case. ;) M.
Drezden 02-12-07, 09:47 PM	FYI - Superior Invisibility is Core in both the 596 LGCS and the 597 Draft LGCS. However, it is under Invisibility, Superior. Daren