Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 02-09-07, 01:12 PM	Okay the draft says that LG now uses the Polymorph errata. Which one? (link please). I did a search and found several. And while I'm at it, I still have some old Druid questions that I would like answered. Does spells that target 'animals' work on: 1) Wildshaped Druid 2) Animal Companion (*magical beast) 3) Do spells that would be illegal on an Animal Companion but would be legal on a Druid be shared? Enlarge Person comes to mind. What happens when you Metamagic Extend spells such as Creeping Cold (Spell Compendium). Or for that matter if you're a cleric and extend Heat Metal? Cheers.
bitznarf 02-09-07, 01:20 PM	This would be the PHB Errata: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/PHBErrata02062006.zip found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a
Jay_Ibero_911 02-09-07, 01:29 PM	Okay the draft says that LG now uses the Polymorph errata. Which one? (link please). I did a search and found several. And while I'm at it, I still have some old Druid questions that I would like answered. Does spells that target 'animals' work on: 1) Wildshaped Druid 2) Animal Companion (*magical beast) 3) Do spells that would be illegal on an Animal Companion but would be legal on a Druid be shared? Enlarge Person comes to mind. What happens when you Metamagic Extend spells such as Creeping Cold (Spell Compendium). Or for that matter if you're a cleric and extend Heat Metal? Cheers. 1) No, as a wildshaped Druid no longer aquires the animal type. 2) Yes. Animal companions are NOT magical beasts. 3) Yes, as per share spells, the druid can cast spells on his companion even if the spell does not normally affect animals. So Arcane Hierophants can cast Enlarge Person on their companion familiar even though it is a magical beast in this case.
Britt 02-09-07, 01:40 PM	This would be the PHB Errata: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/PHBErrata02062006.zip found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a Plus all the errata to all the other books they did on 2/16/06 to address the entire polymorph issue.
modus666 02-09-07, 01:59 PM	i am so confused.... did druids lose wildshape. i posted a propsed solution assuming they did... but someonet old me they still can yet there still seems to be much debate goign on about them... help?
ZX670 02-09-07, 02:01 PM	Druids can still Wild Shape, however, your CON still changes to the CON of the new form as it always did, but, against the Core rules of D&D, your HP does not change along with it. Also, any items, even cloak and neck items, now meld into your body when you Wild Shape out of your humanoid form.
Sieylianna 02-09-07, 02:14 PM	Druids still have wild shape, but it's effectively useless. You can still do it, but if a fight happens to break out, you're going to die. (Think of being hit by disintegrate with no magic items active). Ed
modus666 02-09-07, 02:35 PM	ohhh kaaay.... well i can see how that might be a bit of a problem... but i can also see the flip side argument about druids who would tank their constitution score when creating characters knowingthey could eventually ignore their hp penalties when wild shaping. its a tricky issue... i think maybe my proposed solution thread may still have merit considering this.
ZX670 02-09-07, 02:37 PM	Druids still have wild shape, but it's effectively useless. You can still do it, but if a fight happens to break out, you're going to die. (Think of being hit by disintegrate with no magic items active). Ed Not necessarily. There are still things that can be done to get around this stuff. It's usefulness has dropped way down though. I'm more disappointed in the ruling about CON change not effecting HPs from a perspective that it's part of D&D that CON change affects HP and that, unlike before, it's actually beneficial to turn into smaller, low CON'd creatures, like snakes and birds. They would have been better wording it that your CON doesn't change when you Wild Shape. It just doesn't make sense that a druid in Wild Shape can theoretically die from CON drain HP loss before his CON is actually 0. I don't understand the ruling to meld all gear with your new shape, though. If an item can resize to any size, then neck and back slot items should be able to do so throughout a Wild Shape imo.
ZX670 02-09-07, 02:42 PM	ohhh kaaay.... well i can see how that might be a bit of a problem... but i can also see the flip side argument about druids who would tank their constitution score when creating characters knowingthey could eventually ignore their hp penalties when wild shaping. Yeah, it's easy to understand why they did it the way they did. It could use better wording though. It's a good thing I built my druid with a high CON initially. Even though he was a Wild Shaping druid, I wanted him to be able to survive outside of WS. I could probably still use him as is with the new rules without problems, although having to take off neck and back items, cast Bear's Endurance on self, then WS and re-equip them is a nuisance. Also, theoretical question, but what happens to your neck and back items if you stay in WS so long that it runs out and you immediately revert back to your initial form? Do the items meld into your initial form? Ewwwwwww! hehe
Lupo 02-09-07, 02:46 PM	Druids still have wild shape, but it's effectively useless. You can still do it, but if a fight happens to break out, you're going to die. (Think of being hit by disintegrate with no magic items active). Ed my druid is going to buy animal costumes and invest skill points in "disguise" and "perform [impersonate animal]", he is not wildshaping into an animal, he is going to be disguised as an animal. is much more effective nowadays. watch out for my halfling doing the polar bear :P ciao martin m.
Sieylianna 02-09-07, 02:53 PM	It's a good thing I built my druid with a high CON initially. Even though he was a Wild Shaping druid, I wanted him to be able to survive outside of WS. I could probably still use him as is with the new rules without problems, although having to take off neck and back items, cast Bear's Endurance on self, then WS and re-equip them is a nuisance. Mine has a 12. It would have been 14, but I wanted a high INT for wizard and geomancer (although I ended up straight druid). They are only going to create new problems. It's just a matter of finding them. Ed
Jay_Ibero_911 02-09-07, 02:57 PM	my druid is going to buy animal costumes and invest skill points in "disguise" and "perform [impersonate animal]", he is not wildshaping into an animal, he is going to be disguised as an animal. is much more effective nowadays. watch out for my halfling doing the polar bear :P ciao martin m. Yeah, Cause a halfling has as much str, natural attacks, size, and improved grab as a polar bear...And the melding thing is hardly an issue...Just cast Owl's Wisdom, take off gear, wild shape, put it back on. You can even purchase barding for your party to put on you after you wildshape. Then when you revert to your normal form, as per alternate form rules, anything that doesn't fit your natural form falls off (the barding). The only 2 remotely significant changes the errata makes are that a druid actually needs a con score (Oh no!), and they don't gain the animal type, so no animal growth, (Whaa whaa!). Wildshaping is just as effective as ever, except those min-maxers will have to actually invest in Con, and they can still completely dump strength and dex, and cha is still not too helpful...so 3 stats worth boosting...Con, Int, Wis. People need to quit whining...
Sieylianna 02-09-07, 04:15 PM	Yeah, Cause a halfling has as much str, natural attacks, size, and improved grab as a polar bear...And the melding thing is hardly an issue...Just cast Owl's Wisdom, take off gear, wild shape, put it back on. You can even purchase barding for your party to put on you after you wildshape. If you want to be in animal form 24/7, this will work. However, you can't communicate with the party, some of your skills can't be used, and walking around a city as a large animal attracts attention. Plus it's hard to look like a natural animal when you're wearing a cloak. If you want to travel around as a human, it's going to take minutes before you can effectively get into the fight and your companions aren't going to want to help you change clothes while something tries to kill them. Wild shape has become useless/dangerous for the majority of situations the druid faces in LG. Ed
sibyl 02-09-07, 04:30 PM	Druids still have wild shape, but it's effectively useless. You can still do it, but if a fight happens to break out, you're going to die. (Think of being hit by disintegrate with no magic items active). Ed That is not true. Wildshaped, I still have better chances to hit and damage my foes. My Reflex save still goes up. My Fort save might still go up. Magic Fang & Greater Magic Fang still work (one 'creature'). I can now be Enlarged (not as great as Animal Growth, but not bad either). My AC still sucks, but that was the case before (9th level now and still no sign of Wilding Armor access...le sigh). I can still fly high above the action to get away, if need be. I can still sneak into people's houses as an itty bitty snake. I can still wildshape into a critter than can swim better that I (maybe not the racial bonuses, but I save time taking off and putting on armor and that's a big help right there, and breathing underwater hasn't been taken away). I can still shift into a horse and carry people long distances to save time when other options aren't available. See? Plenty useful.
Mithreinmaethor 02-09-07, 04:45 PM	You know they could have just done away with wildshape and made the Druids use the alternate Druid stuff from PHB II :)
ZX670 02-09-07, 04:47 PM	You know they could have just done away with wildshape and made the Druids use the alternate Druid stuff from PHB II :) But they didn't, thank goodness. I'd much rather have the multitude of options I have now, even if nerfed.
arpster 02-09-07, 04:51 PM	I got lucky when making my druid. I had to come up with a 1st level character because my other 2 where either out of TU's or in jail. So I took the dwarf that I made at the release of D&D 3.0 at GenCon, he died really fast. I switched the Str and Wis scores and started playing. buying equipment as I went along. I built him to be able to attack quick and get out if necessary. I used to have him sit back and summon animals to help the BDF's. Then I got access to Wild Fullplate Dragon Hide armor. Granted I used s feat that I could of used some place else, but I still built him for wildshaping. I just got lucky along the way and got the armor. The only thing I did not like about the changes was you no longer get the racial skill bonus. I never had a cloak or necklace for my character, because I saved up to get the armor and it took all of my money basically. When I got the armor I was still summoning the animals to help the BDF's till end of last year, when I had to get in there and fight or my animal camponion and the BDF was going to die. Then I found out that fighting as an animal was the way to go. I was going to buy a peraipt of wisdom, but since it will no longer give bonus spells no reason in getting it. So now I can save my gold and get the druid vestments I just got access to. So all this boils down to is druids wildshaping is not useless, just have to take chances when in animal form. Then you have to get lucky in access to items that druids need. Mel
Jay_Ibero_911 02-09-07, 04:54 PM	I got lucky when making my druid. I had to come up with a 1st level character because my other 2 where either out of TU's or in jail. So I took the dwarf that I made at the release of D&D 3.0 at GenCon, he died really fast. I switched the Str and Wis scores and started playing. buying equipment as I went along. I built him to be able to attack quick and get out if necessary. I used to have him sit back and summon animals to help the BDF's. Then I got access to Wild Fullplate Dragon Hide armor. Granted I used s feat that I could of used some place else, but I still built him for wildshaping. I just got lucky along the way and got the armor. The only thing I did not like about the changes was you no longer get the racial skill bonus. I never had a cloak or necklace for my character, because I saved up to get the armor and it took all of my money basically. When I got the armor I was still summoning the animals to help the BDF's till end of last year, when I had to get in there and fight or my animal camponion and the BDF was going to die. Then I found out that fighting as an animal was the way to go. I was going to buy a peraipt of wisdom, but since it will no longer give bonus spells no reason in getting it. So now I can save my gold and get the druid vestments I just got access to. So all this boils down to is druids wildshaping is not useless, just have to take chances when in animal form. Then you have to get lucky in access to items that druids need. Mel With the Fast Wild Shape feat and an owl's wisdom handy, you don't have to worry about too much spell loss if your periapt melds, as long as you revert before the spell ends...
Samwise 02-09-07, 05:26 PM	Druids can still Wild Shape, however, your CON still changes to the CON of the new form as it always did, but, against the Core rules of D&D, your HP does not change along with it. This is not against the Core rules of D&D. It is different from the usual Core rule. But as the wild shape errata constitutes a specific Core rule itself, this specific case can not be against the Core rules of D&D.
ZX670 02-09-07, 05:43 PM	This is not against the Core rules of D&D. It is different from the usual Core rule. But as the wild shape errata constitutes a specific Core rule itself, this specific case can not be against the Core rules of D&D. Fine. Initial rules. And from my perspective, as this is now the only case, ever, in any version of the game that a CON score changing does not change your HP's, I could still argue it is against the core rules, imo. Take core not to mean 'core' in LG, but the definition of core.
Samwise 02-09-07, 06:22 PM	Fine. Initial rules. And from my perspective, as this is now the only case, ever, in any version of the game that a CON score changing does not change your HP's, I could still argue it is against the core rules, imo. Take core not to mean 'core' in LG, but the definition of core. Well, other than actually dying and losing a point of Con, or being affected by some particularly power magic that modified your Con, there was no way to casually change your Con in 1st and 2nd ed. So that is only a valid rules issue with 3E/3.5. And I did take it to mean Core as in Core. You have two Core rules here, not a Core rule and an LG rule. If this were an LG house rule I could see how it could be against a Core rule. As it is just another Core rule, I don't see how that is possible. That would be like saying pounce is against the Core rule that you only get one attack when you charge. You do - except if you have pounce. Likewise a change in Con always changes your hp - except when you use alternate form. (Which wild shape is a version of.)