Masterwork tools access in lg [Archive] - Wizards Community

Masterwork tools access in lg [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Potato Weasel
03-07-07, 07:21 AM Hey, sorry if the answer to this is really obvious, but what tools do you get default access to in LG? In the phb it says that masterwork tools can be made for any skill, and i recently went through a mod that had masterwork tools for tumbling and search checks, and it didnt give access to those items, are they default things? I would love a +2 to jump or diplomacy, though i have trouble thinking what would actually give me such a bonus to diplomacy as a tool.. :confused:
Maesto
03-07-07, 07:52 AM *rolls eyes*

I'll give you a masterwork thieve's kit or an alchemy lab for a +2 bonus. But masterwork tumbling shoes? come off it. A masterwork soapbox for diplomacy? how about a masterwork bullhorn? What about a masterwork saddle? Maybe a masterwork history book, or a masterwork monocle for appraise, a masterwork spear for a +2 to profession soldier? Or ... wait for it... Masterwork goggles! A masterwork weather station for survival? Ooh - let's see for sense motive - a masterwork lie detector? I'm sorry, there are limits to what I'll let players do under the generic rule, and most of them are limited to the PhB items.
Potato Weasel
03-07-07, 08:00 AM Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks.

Thats why I ask.
Potato Weasel
03-07-07, 08:01 AM And my problem is that the phb says you can have a masterwork tool for any skill, but i havent seen it applied anywhere.
cycloptic_squirrel
03-07-07, 08:22 AM I think the safest way to go about it is buy whatever you want, but run it past your DM each mod before you add in the bonus. Just because I'll give you a bonus on jump checks because of your Acme(TM) spring shoes doesn't mean every judge will agree.
In other words, only consistantly count on the tools mentioned in the PHB. You can still buy generic masterwork tools for other skills, but don't expect them to work unless you can convince a judge, i.e. they make sense.

Oh, and it's not always the best thing to have a high skill check. For example, if I had a masterwork thinking cap, I might have made my sense sarcasm check and felt compelled to mention something about being nice and not automatically assuming someone's trying to be a cheezeweazel. And that would have made me look just as knee-jerk reactionary as whomever I was refering to. ;)
haferka
03-07-07, 08:52 AM How about a mental focus pill. (bottle acts as healing kit, but grants bonus to concentration checks). Pop a pill every day..

Stimulat Kit (injected liquid increases a chosen physical skill)...

monacle (search checks)

vocational manual (virtually any skill bonus.. just have it open to get the bonus)

Create any item you want... just be prepared to explain that item to the dm... he has the option to remove its bonus when the situation does not allow you to utilize the item... If you can't come up with a plausable masterwork item.. and how it works.. don't expect every dm to just let it slide... (its' not magic... its masterwork.. )
Timlagor
03-07-07, 12:08 PM You can buy anything and it's up to the Judge at the table whether it grants any benefit. I believe this was actually commented on by a Circle Member at one point.

My Wizard has a MW Library he carries around on his mule (50gp per knowledge skill). I haven't had much use out of it but it's so very in character ;)
Chris_L
03-07-07, 03:39 PM Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks.

I've played that one recently, and yes it produced an interesting debate at our table.
My bard is now after a MW set of encyclopedias...
:cool:
kenobi65
03-07-07, 03:49 PM Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks.

Yeah, I think I've played that one. The boot heels idea I can almost accept, but the fine-toothed comb is just plain silly.
haferka
03-07-07, 04:33 PM I like the knowledge books...

how about, silk swimsuit.. (huba huba, like the FR drow swimsuit) :)

-compass (survival, find direction)
-hunting bow (survival to find food... ill suited as a weapon against anything dangerous, .. bunnys & scuirrels only)
-spectacles/goggles (spot or search)
-rangefinder (profession siege engine - targeting)
-camo paint kit (takes time to apply, but helps you blend in)
-clothing (this weeks fashionable people wear this brand)
-clamp & wedge kit (a collection of wedges & clamps to be used on mechanical traps)
-sudoku books (daily regiment of "practice" helps to maintain your edge at decipher scrypt).
Maesto
03-08-07, 01:55 AM If I were to run the module in question (and yes I have played it), I would not be granting the bonus given by those items. It's up to the DM whether or not to allow it, remember? If you come up with a reasonable suggestion, sure I'll consider it. If you have a set of encyclopaedias and some contraption that will let a mule carry them (you know those things are really heavy, don't you?), I'll give you a bonus on some knowledge checks provided you take the time to reference the material. A masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks? Sure - if you're searching for lice.
Munkwunk
03-08-07, 02:20 AM Tool, Masterwork
This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill check do not stack.
If you own a Masterwork Tool you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. It's right there.

As a judge, I'd always give you the bonus. If you want to say your Masterwork Jumping Beans give you a +2 circumstance bonus to Craft (Alchemy) checks, you get the bonus as long as you paid for and possess the item.
paigeoliver
03-08-07, 02:25 AM I have played a module that has a masterwork diplomacy soapbox on the AR. So it isn't all that outrageous. I think it was actually a "lectern" or a podium, but still means the same thing.
cycloptic_squirrel
03-08-07, 03:59 AM If you own a Masterwork Tool you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. It's right there.

It gives you a bonus on the check relating to the item. That doesn't necessarily mean every check has an associated tool. Things like craft and handle animal probably have many tools that could give you a bonus, but I'm having trouble envisioning a tool that would aid bluff checks. I could see some specific examples, such as pertinent forged documents, but nothing that's going to work in even a minority of situations.
(You have a letter of reference from Pelor himself? Wow! Someone like you couldn't be trying to deceive us! :angelhide )

The thing to remember is that you have to convince the DM that the skill you're trying to use it for is related to the masterwork tool.

Hmmm... masterwork sock monkey. Bluff (Look! Look at the silly monkey!), profession: lawyer (Look! Look at the silly monkey!), and well, a host of other skills that involve pretty much the same tactic. On a really good day, I might be able to convince the DM that magic items are easily distracted by silly monkeys, thus allowing an easier use magic device check. :P
Maesto
03-08-07, 06:22 AM Hmm... masterwork persuadertron ;-) +2 bonus on UMD... mmm... cheese...
Potato Weasel
03-08-07, 07:18 AM Well, another relevant example I can give, and which is why i'm actually iffy about this, is masterwork libraries, as presented in the stronghold builders guide, which worked as a masterwork tool for knowledge (though with scaling bonuses) but at a very high price, also on several adventures you can gain masterwork books (doesnt say masterwork, they're usually named) that give bonuses to very specific checks, but at the cost of about 500-1k gold.
Timlagor
03-08-07, 01:04 PM If you buy something out of the PHB it's up to the Judge whether they allow it.

If you have AR access then the Judge must accept it within the terms it describes. A lectern sounds like something that would only work in limitted circumstances but you would certainly have to allow the boots.

I find the books I've seen very disappointing. The Magic one in one of the WotC book (covers *some* Necromancy-related K(Arcana) checks: in Libris Mortis I think) is frankly pointless. I'd allow someone to use MW Books if they had the time.

Incidentally Mules can carry a LOT.
Fleetfang
03-08-07, 06:28 PM My bard has a masterwork kobold voodoo doll to assist his UMD checks. I think it makes sense.

"Ooga-booga hocus-pocus a-la-peanut-butter-sandwiches! I'mAClericI'mAClericI'mACleric! ShaZAM!"

Why wouldn't a shamanistic focus help with that? :D
Mattastrophic
03-09-07, 02:44 PM I guess I should invest in a few Masterwork Tumbling Heels (Tumble), some Masterwork Dancing Soles (Perform[dance]), and some Masterwork Compositions (Perform[sing]). Some Masterwork Clothes would be cool, too.

-Does that mean Matt could upgrade his Masterwork Shirt to +1?
catsclaw
03-09-07, 04:50 PM My bard has a masterwork kobold voodoo doll to assist his UMD checks.Is the doll's name Banjo?
Timlagor
03-10-07, 11:25 AM Masterwork clothes are called a courtier's or Noble's outfit (the fact that they are in a different bit of table doesn't matter imo). I don't think you can really expect to get anything else from them.
JBeauMI
03-10-07, 04:43 PM I set up a character with a regional affiliation that grants access to Silent Shoes (Arms and Equipment Guide), which provide a +2 on Move Silent checks. The shoes are only 10 GP. For 60 GP I could buy a pair of masterwork Silent Shoes, which provide +4 on MS checks?
King Kashue
03-10-07, 04:56 PM *rolls eyes*...or a masterwork monocle for appraise

The +2 bonus item for appraise is already in the PHB along with the healer's kit and the climbing kit...

Perhaps it's not so unreasonable as you seem to think it is, seeing as it's already in the PHB...
Swiftbrook
03-11-07, 04:22 PM I think Master of the Wild had masterwork tools described for Handle Animal, and I may have seen them in a newer source as well. I'm curious what 'tool' I could use to improve my survival (track) checks. Compass, magnifying glass, masterwork maps?? Any, non-sarcastic, ideas? Always looking to improve.

-Swiftbrook
haferka
03-11-07, 08:23 PM How about a book that details a particular environment... +2 survival checks.. (all uses, but only for one environment type: desert, mountains, etc..).

A similar book for Knowledge might detail the creature associated with that knowledge skill.. or even a particular environment (of any creature type). Helping you identify a creature & its traits.
Timlagor
03-11-07, 09:59 PM I think a book could cover many many creature: just look at the Monster Manual!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Potato Weasel 03-07-07, 07:21 AM	Hey, sorry if the answer to this is really obvious, but what tools do you get default access to in LG? In the phb it says that masterwork tools can be made for any skill, and i recently went through a mod that had masterwork tools for tumbling and search checks, and it didnt give access to those items, are they default things? I would love a +2 to jump or diplomacy, though i have trouble thinking what would actually give me such a bonus to diplomacy as a tool.. :confused:
Maesto 03-07-07, 07:52 AM	rolls eyes I'll give you a masterwork thieve's kit or an alchemy lab for a +2 bonus. But masterwork tumbling shoes? come off it. A masterwork soapbox for diplomacy? how about a masterwork bullhorn? What about a masterwork saddle? Maybe a masterwork history book, or a masterwork monocle for appraise, a masterwork spear for a +2 to profession soldier? Or ... wait for it... Masterwork goggles! A masterwork weather station for survival? Ooh - let's see for sense motive - a masterwork lie detector? I'm sorry, there are limits to what I'll let players do under the generic rule, and most of them are limited to the PhB items.
Potato Weasel 03-07-07, 08:00 AM	Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks. Thats why I ask.
Potato Weasel 03-07-07, 08:01 AM	And my problem is that the phb says you can have a masterwork tool for any skill, but i havent seen it applied anywhere.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-07-07, 08:22 AM	I think the safest way to go about it is buy whatever you want, but run it past your DM each mod before you add in the bonus. Just because I'll give you a bonus on jump checks because of your Acme(TM) spring shoes doesn't mean every judge will agree. In other words, only consistantly count on the tools mentioned in the PHB. You can still buy generic masterwork tools for other skills, but don't expect them to work unless you can convince a judge, i.e. they make sense. Oh, and it's not always the best thing to have a high skill check. For example, if I had a masterwork thinking cap, I might have made my sense sarcasm check and felt compelled to mention something about being nice and not automatically assuming someone's trying to be a cheezeweazel. And that would have made me look just as knee-jerk reactionary as whomever I was refering to. ;)
haferka 03-07-07, 08:52 AM	How about a mental focus pill. (bottle acts as healing kit, but grants bonus to concentration checks). Pop a pill every day.. Stimulat Kit (injected liquid increases a chosen physical skill)... monacle (search checks) vocational manual (virtually any skill bonus.. just have it open to get the bonus) Create any item you want... just be prepared to explain that item to the dm... he has the option to remove its bonus when the situation does not allow you to utilize the item... If you can't come up with a plausable masterwork item.. and how it works.. don't expect every dm to just let it slide... (its' not magic... its masterwork.. )
Timlagor 03-07-07, 12:08 PM	You can buy anything and it's up to the Judge at the table whether it grants any benefit. I believe this was actually commented on by a Circle Member at one point. My Wizard has a MW Library he carries around on his mule (50gp per knowledge skill). I haven't had much use out of it but it's so very in character ;)
Chris_L 03-07-07, 03:39 PM	Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks. I've played that one recently, and yes it produced an interesting debate at our table. My bard is now after a MW set of encyclopedias... :cool:
kenobi65 03-07-07, 03:49 PM	Actually, thank you for your sarcasm, but the mod in question had masterwork boot heels for tumbling and a masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks. Yeah, I think I've played that one. The boot heels idea I can almost accept, but the fine-toothed comb is just plain silly.
haferka 03-07-07, 04:33 PM	I like the knowledge books... how about, silk swimsuit.. (huba huba, like the FR drow swimsuit) :) -compass (survival, find direction) -hunting bow (survival to find food... ill suited as a weapon against anything dangerous, .. bunnys & scuirrels only) -spectacles/goggles (spot or search) -rangefinder (profession siege engine - targeting) -camo paint kit (takes time to apply, but helps you blend in) -clothing (this weeks fashionable people wear this brand) -clamp & wedge kit (a collection of wedges & clamps to be used on mechanical traps) -sudoku books (daily regiment of "practice" helps to maintain your edge at decipher scrypt).
Maesto 03-08-07, 01:55 AM	If I were to run the module in question (and yes I have played it), I would not be granting the bonus given by those items. It's up to the DM whether or not to allow it, remember? If you come up with a reasonable suggestion, sure I'll consider it. If you have a set of encyclopaedias and some contraption that will let a mule carry them (you know those things are really heavy, don't you?), I'll give you a bonus on some knowledge checks provided you take the time to reference the material. A masterwork fine toothed comb for search checks? Sure - if you're searching for lice.
Munkwunk 03-08-07, 02:20 AM	Tool, Masterwork This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill check do not stack. If you own a Masterwork Tool you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. It's right there. As a judge, I'd always give you the bonus. If you want to say your Masterwork Jumping Beans give you a +2 circumstance bonus to Craft (Alchemy) checks, you get the bonus as long as you paid for and possess the item.
paigeoliver 03-08-07, 02:25 AM	I have played a module that has a masterwork diplomacy soapbox on the AR. So it isn't all that outrageous. I think it was actually a "lectern" or a podium, but still means the same thing.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-08-07, 03:59 AM	If you own a Masterwork Tool you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. It's right there. It gives you a bonus on the check relating to the item. That doesn't necessarily mean every check has an associated tool. Things like craft and handle animal probably have many tools that could give you a bonus, but I'm having trouble envisioning a tool that would aid bluff checks. I could see some specific examples, such as pertinent forged documents, but nothing that's going to work in even a minority of situations. (You have a letter of reference from Pelor himself? Wow! Someone like you couldn't be trying to deceive us! :angelhide ) The thing to remember is that you have to convince the DM that the skill you're trying to use it for is related to the masterwork tool. Hmmm... masterwork sock monkey. Bluff (Look! Look at the silly monkey!), profession: lawyer (Look! Look at the silly monkey!), and well, a host of other skills that involve pretty much the same tactic. On a really good day, I might be able to convince the DM that magic items are easily distracted by silly monkeys, thus allowing an easier use magic device check. :P
Maesto 03-08-07, 06:22 AM	Hmm... masterwork persuadertron ;-) +2 bonus on UMD... mmm... cheese...
Potato Weasel 03-08-07, 07:18 AM	Well, another relevant example I can give, and which is why i'm actually iffy about this, is masterwork libraries, as presented in the stronghold builders guide, which worked as a masterwork tool for knowledge (though with scaling bonuses) but at a very high price, also on several adventures you can gain masterwork books (doesnt say masterwork, they're usually named) that give bonuses to very specific checks, but at the cost of about 500-1k gold.
Timlagor 03-08-07, 01:04 PM	If you buy something out of the PHB it's up to the Judge whether they allow it. If you have AR access then the Judge must accept it within the terms it describes. A lectern sounds like something that would only work in limitted circumstances but you would certainly have to allow the boots. I find the books I've seen very disappointing. The Magic one in one of the WotC book (covers some Necromancy-related K(Arcana) checks: in Libris Mortis I think) is frankly pointless. I'd allow someone to use MW Books if they had the time. Incidentally Mules can carry a LOT.
Fleetfang 03-08-07, 06:28 PM	My bard has a masterwork kobold voodoo doll to assist his UMD checks. I think it makes sense. "Ooga-booga hocus-pocus a-la-peanut-butter-sandwiches! I'mAClericI'mAClericI'mACleric! ShaZAM!" Why wouldn't a shamanistic focus help with that? :D
Mattastrophic 03-09-07, 02:44 PM	I guess I should invest in a few Masterwork Tumbling Heels (Tumble), some Masterwork Dancing Soles (Perform[dance]), and some Masterwork Compositions (Perform[sing]). Some Masterwork Clothes would be cool, too. -Does that mean Matt could upgrade his Masterwork Shirt to +1?
catsclaw 03-09-07, 04:50 PM	My bard has a masterwork kobold voodoo doll to assist his UMD checks.Is the doll's name Banjo?
Timlagor 03-10-07, 11:25 AM	Masterwork clothes are called a courtier's or Noble's outfit (the fact that they are in a different bit of table doesn't matter imo). I don't think you can really expect to get anything else from them.
JBeauMI 03-10-07, 04:43 PM	I set up a character with a regional affiliation that grants access to Silent Shoes (Arms and Equipment Guide), which provide a +2 on Move Silent checks. The shoes are only 10 GP. For 60 GP I could buy a pair of masterwork Silent Shoes, which provide +4 on MS checks?
King Kashue 03-10-07, 04:56 PM	rolls eyes...or a masterwork monocle for appraise The +2 bonus item for appraise is already in the PHB along with the healer's kit and the climbing kit... Perhaps it's not so unreasonable as you seem to think it is, seeing as it's already in the PHB...
Swiftbrook 03-11-07, 04:22 PM	I think Master of the Wild had masterwork tools described for Handle Animal, and I may have seen them in a newer source as well. I'm curious what 'tool' I could use to improve my survival (track) checks. Compass, magnifying glass, masterwork maps?? Any, non-sarcastic, ideas? Always looking to improve. -Swiftbrook
haferka 03-11-07, 08:23 PM	How about a book that details a particular environment... +2 survival checks.. (all uses, but only for one environment type: desert, mountains, etc..). A similar book for Knowledge might detail the creature associated with that knowledge skill.. or even a particular environment (of any creature type). Helping you identify a creature & its traits.
Timlagor 03-11-07, 09:59 PM	I think a book could cover many many creature: just look at the Monster Manual!