Mindbender Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mindbender Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
victordukes
07-14-07, 03:05 PM I was thinking about taking the Mindbender Prestige class (I have access) but had a question about how works.
I was wondering how the Eternal Charm would work in LG.
DO you need to get AR documentation that you have successfully charmed a creature so you use it at another table? Are there APL limitations on the creature you charm? Something like the APL of the charmed creature cannot accede your APL or two levels higher than the mindbender?

I see this Prestige class as being kind of like a druid with their pets. The limit on spell progression is made up for with the addition of a charmed pet. It would not make much sense if you have to charm a new creature at every table.
Some official clarification on this would be great.

Vic
__________________
Victor Dukes
Playing since 1987
from Tarpon Spring FL
vic_d@hotmail.com
Jay_Ibero_911
07-14-07, 06:14 PM I was thinking about taking the Mindbender Prestige class (I have access) but had a question about how works.
I was wondering how the Eternal Charm would work in LG.
DO you need to get AR documentation that you have successfully charmed a creature so you use it at another table? Are there APL limitations on the creature you charm? Something like the APL of the charmed creature cannot accede your APL or two levels higher than the mindbender?

I see this Prestige class as being kind of like a druid with their pets. The limit on spell progression is made up for with the addition of a charmed pet. It would not make much sense if you have to charm a new creature at every table.
Some official clarification on this would be great.

Vic
__________________
Victor Dukes
Playing since 1987
from Tarpon Spring FL
vic_d@hotmail.com

Nope. Eternal charm only works for the duration of the mod, then your friend goes bye-bye.
victordukes
07-15-07, 04:59 PM Nope. Eternal charm only works for the duration of the mod, then your friend goes bye-bye.

Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of a Permanent Charm?
Vanadium
07-15-07, 05:04 PM Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of a Permanent Charm?

Well, the class wasn't really written to accomodate the nature of Living Greyhawk.

Not to mention that Permanent Charm sort of defeats the purpose of Permanent Charm.
Prof. Pacali
07-15-07, 05:13 PM In LG the real benefit of Mindbender is the Telepathy gained at 1st level. If there were some way to track the Charmed/Dominated creature then it would be worthwhile, but there isn't, and your friend goes away at the end of the mod. It's better to dip one level into Mindbender, and take the actual Charm Monster spell. The duration of Charm Monster is equivalent to the number of days in the average LG mod, and the telepathy allows you to control the creature without knowing its language. By contrast, taking four levels of Mindbender will give you an ability that doesn't work in LG, and cost you two caster levels.
victordukes
07-15-07, 05:49 PM I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion.
Jay_Ibero_911
07-15-07, 06:10 PM I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion.

Not really. All the charm spell does is make the target regard the caster as friendly, as per the diplomacy skill. You can try to order your buddy with opposed charisma check, or you can use diplomacy on your charmed target to move them to Helpful which would require a DC 20 diplomacy check, in which case they would actually aid you in combat of their own accord. But it's much different than just directly controlling a cohort or animal companion for instance.
clannagh
07-16-07, 01:42 AM I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion.

One of the locals tried to use mindbender to create a private army and I pointed out that being friendly to your PC doesn't make the charmed person immediately inclined to attack his other friends though he may be confused and try to talk them out of hitting you. The absolute best you would normally expect is he may try to grapple or otherwise prevent them attacking just as you would if two real life friends were about to fight.
Lupo
07-16-07, 01:53 AM One of the locals tried to use mindbender to create a private army and I pointed out that being friendly to your PC doesn't make the charmed person immediately inclined to attack his other friends though he may be confused and try to talk them out of hitting you. The absolute best you would normally expect is he may try to grapple or otherwise prevent them attacking just as you would if two real life friends were about to fight.

"charm person" isn't as "dominate person", so no attacking of the former friends BUT telling a charmed critter to HELP works perfect most of the time ;)

once the highest level character at a table was charmed . . . . . . an arcanist - and did everything he could to help the foe, he casted every single buff and utility spell on the NPC and made it possible for the foe to escape :P

ciao

martin m.
KarmaInferno
07-16-07, 07:05 AM Think of it this way. Would your friend normally just attack his other friends just because you ordered him to?

Me, I'd stare at the person who was screaming these insane orders at me and try to subdue him. Clearly my friend has gone insane and needs to be restrained for his own good.

:D

-karma
Mocoso
07-16-07, 08:58 AM be careful though, you are not allowed to play a mindbender in your region (Prinipality of Ulek) because it is feared by the peasants. you can be charged tu if someone notices.
bitznarf
07-16-07, 10:29 AM Good thing there is no detect class spell in D&D.
Mocoso
07-16-07, 10:46 AM no. but if you use the powers the triad can make a penalty of gold and TU.
Lupo
07-16-07, 11:33 AM be careful though, you are not allowed to play a mindbender in your region (Prinipality of Ulek) because it is feared by the peasants. you can be charged tu if someone notices.

of course all good willed citizens of the kingdom of sunndi would inform the local authorities asap about such an assault on the basic principles of sunndian society.

playing such a character in sunndi might get your character into real trouble. most sunndians are somehow obsessed with "ones free will" :).

just go over the border to ahlissa, most government officials will not care or just try to learn your trick :P.

ciao

martin m.
victordukes
07-16-07, 12:09 PM I know it’s a hated class but that just makes it more fun for me.

I understand how charm works and know I could not charm a bad guy fighter and have him attack his part. I was thing more along the lines of say charming a lone Oger and convincing him I was his best friend and that I needed him to protect me because I am so small and week.
That’s kind of the idea I had for a pet.

Heheh on a separate thought though do you think Mindbenders are really hated because of there charms and dominations or because its so hard to hide the truth from them…? heheh

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
victordukes 07-14-07, 03:05 PM	I was thinking about taking the Mindbender Prestige class (I have access) but had a question about how works. I was wondering how the Eternal Charm would work in LG. DO you need to get AR documentation that you have successfully charmed a creature so you use it at another table? Are there APL limitations on the creature you charm? Something like the APL of the charmed creature cannot accede your APL or two levels higher than the mindbender? I see this Prestige class as being kind of like a druid with their pets. The limit on spell progression is made up for with the addition of a charmed pet. It would not make much sense if you have to charm a new creature at every table. Some official clarification on this would be great. Vic __________________ Victor Dukes Playing since 1987 from Tarpon Spring FL vic_d@hotmail.com
Jay_Ibero_911 07-14-07, 06:14 PM	I was thinking about taking the Mindbender Prestige class (I have access) but had a question about how works. I was wondering how the Eternal Charm would work in LG. DO you need to get AR documentation that you have successfully charmed a creature so you use it at another table? Are there APL limitations on the creature you charm? Something like the APL of the charmed creature cannot accede your APL or two levels higher than the mindbender? I see this Prestige class as being kind of like a druid with their pets. The limit on spell progression is made up for with the addition of a charmed pet. It would not make much sense if you have to charm a new creature at every table. Some official clarification on this would be great. Vic __________________ Victor Dukes Playing since 1987 from Tarpon Spring FL vic_d@hotmail.com Nope. Eternal charm only works for the duration of the mod, then your friend goes bye-bye.
victordukes 07-15-07, 04:59 PM	Nope. Eternal charm only works for the duration of the mod, then your friend goes bye-bye. Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of a Permanent Charm?
Vanadium 07-15-07, 05:04 PM	Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of a Permanent Charm? Well, the class wasn't really written to accomodate the nature of Living Greyhawk. Not to mention that Permanent Charm sort of defeats the purpose of Permanent Charm.
Prof. Pacali 07-15-07, 05:13 PM	In LG the real benefit of Mindbender is the Telepathy gained at 1st level. If there were some way to track the Charmed/Dominated creature then it would be worthwhile, but there isn't, and your friend goes away at the end of the mod. It's better to dip one level into Mindbender, and take the actual Charm Monster spell. The duration of Charm Monster is equivalent to the number of days in the average LG mod, and the telepathy allows you to control the creature without knowing its language. By contrast, taking four levels of Mindbender will give you an ability that doesn't work in LG, and cost you two caster levels.
victordukes 07-15-07, 05:49 PM	I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion.
Jay_Ibero_911 07-15-07, 06:10 PM	I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion. Not really. All the charm spell does is make the target regard the caster as friendly, as per the diplomacy skill. You can try to order your buddy with opposed charisma check, or you can use diplomacy on your charmed target to move them to Helpful which would require a DC 20 diplomacy check, in which case they would actually aid you in combat of their own accord. But it's much different than just directly controlling a cohort or animal companion for instance.
clannagh 07-16-07, 01:42 AM	I guess I am looking at it the wrong way. The way I thought it would work is essentially charming something to be your bodyguard. Kind of like a Druids companion. One of the locals tried to use mindbender to create a private army and I pointed out that being friendly to your PC doesn't make the charmed person immediately inclined to attack his other friends though he may be confused and try to talk them out of hitting you. The absolute best you would normally expect is he may try to grapple or otherwise prevent them attacking just as you would if two real life friends were about to fight.
Lupo 07-16-07, 01:53 AM	One of the locals tried to use mindbender to create a private army and I pointed out that being friendly to your PC doesn't make the charmed person immediately inclined to attack his other friends though he may be confused and try to talk them out of hitting you. The absolute best you would normally expect is he may try to grapple or otherwise prevent them attacking just as you would if two real life friends were about to fight. "charm person" isn't as "dominate person", so no attacking of the former friends BUT telling a charmed critter to HELP works perfect most of the time ;) once the highest level character at a table was charmed . . . . . . an arcanist - and did everything he could to help the foe, he casted every single buff and utility spell on the NPC and made it possible for the foe to escape :P ciao martin m.
KarmaInferno 07-16-07, 07:05 AM	Think of it this way. Would your friend normally just attack his other friends just because you ordered him to? Me, I'd stare at the person who was screaming these insane orders at me and try to subdue him. Clearly my friend has gone insane and needs to be restrained for his own good. :D -karma
Mocoso 07-16-07, 08:58 AM	be careful though, you are not allowed to play a mindbender in your region (Prinipality of Ulek) because it is feared by the peasants. you can be charged tu if someone notices.
bitznarf 07-16-07, 10:29 AM	Good thing there is no detect class spell in D&D.
Mocoso 07-16-07, 10:46 AM	no. but if you use the powers the triad can make a penalty of gold and TU.
Lupo 07-16-07, 11:33 AM	be careful though, you are not allowed to play a mindbender in your region (Prinipality of Ulek) because it is feared by the peasants. you can be charged tu if someone notices. of course all good willed citizens of the kingdom of sunndi would inform the local authorities asap about such an assault on the basic principles of sunndian society. playing such a character in sunndi might get your character into real trouble. most sunndians are somehow obsessed with "ones free will" :). just go over the border to ahlissa, most government officials will not care or just try to learn your trick :P. ciao martin m.
victordukes 07-16-07, 12:09 PM	I know it’s a hated class but that just makes it more fun for me. I understand how charm works and know I could not charm a bad guy fighter and have him attack his part. I was thing more along the lines of say charming a lone Oger and convincing him I was his best friend and that I needed him to protect me because I am so small and week. That’s kind of the idea I had for a pet. Heheh on a separate thought though do you think Mindbenders are really hated because of there charms and dominations or because its so hard to hide the truth from them…? heheh