Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GorTeX 03-21-06, 10:36 PM	If you manage to get access and buy a suit of Mithral Full Plate, would you still be able to use feats like Heavy Armor Optimization with it? Is it still heavy armor(without many of the penalties), or does it actually become a medium armor?
redgamer 03-22-06, 01:36 AM	I don't know. Never heard the question asked or answered. Can't think of a rule to prove either side. I think most people would let it work since its not overpowered but then again its not very powerful and absent a FAQ ruling won't work all the time. Avoid the question pick a better feat or go with adamantine.
vvincent 03-22-06, 08:37 AM	Mithral Full Plate is considered Medium Armor (per Races of the Wild), so it is not eligible for the benefits provided by Heavy Armor Optimization. If you manage to get access and buy a suit of Mithral Full Plate, would you still be able to use feats like Heavy Armor Optimization with it? Is it still heavy armor(without many of the penalties), or does it actually become a medium armor?
GorTeX 03-22-06, 10:20 AM	Mithral Full Plate is considered Medium Armor (per Races of the Wild), so it is not eligible for the benefits provided by Heavy Armor Optimization. that table as a very iffy judge's choice at best, since when contradictions occur A) text always overrules what a table says and B) the core rulebooks always overrule supplements. I think the table is just listing them there for simplicity, rather than putting them under heavy armor with a footnote mentioning that they count as medium "for purposes of movement and other limitations."
vvincent 03-22-06, 10:30 AM	Actually, all the table does is illustrate how mithral affects heavy armor, using the rules for mithral from the DMG. From the DMG section on Mithral: "Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light." Full Plate made from mithral is no longer heavy armor by virtue of the special material - it's medium armor, and therefore no longer eligible for the benefits of the Heavy Armor Optimization feat. that table as a very iffy judge's choice at best, since when contradictions occur A) text always overrules what a table says and B) the core rulebooks always overrule supplements. I think the table is just listing them there for simplicity, rather than putting them under heavy armor with a footnote mentioning that they count as medium "for purposes of movement and other limitations."
Fwib 03-22-06, 11:14 AM	And from the FAQ:Is a character proficient with light armor, such as a rogue, considered to be proficient with mithral breastplate? What about a character proficient with medium armor, such as a barbarian—is he considered proficient with mithral full plate armor? The description of mithral on page 284 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide is less precise than it could be in defining how it interacts with armor proficiency rules. The simplest answer— and the one that the Sage expects most players and DMs use— is that mithral armor is treated as one category lighter for all purposes, including proficiency. This isn’t exactly what the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide says, but it’s a reasonable interpretation of the intent of the rule (and it’s supported by a number of precedents, including the descriptions of various specific mithral armors described on page 220 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide and a variety of NPC stat blocks). Thus, a ranger or rogue could wear a mithral breastplate without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as light armor), and each could use any ability dependent on wearing light or no armor (such as evasion or the ranger’s combat style). A barbarian could wear mithral full plate armor without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as medium armor), and he could use any ability dependent on wearing medium or lighter armor (such as fast movement). The same would be true of any other special material that uses the same or similar language as mithral (such as darkleaf, on page 120 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting).
GorTeX 03-23-06, 12:55 PM	One last comment, then I'll shut up. (I do have a stake in the answer, as I'm going to take levels of battlesmith and will probably be getting Mithral Full plate soon--and had thought to take HAO and GHAO at some point). Note that the FAQ says: "this isn't exactly what the DMG says". The FAQ does not make new rules, it should clarify them. The DMG says: "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations" Note that Mitrhal Weapons don't change category (just become lighter)..Same for Shields--lighter, but a Heavy Mithral shield still is a heavy Mithral shield. IMO, from what the DMG says, it is clear that Mithral armor : Heavy Armor is still Heavy Armor..it does not change categories.. Heavy Armor is TREATED AS medium armor for purposes of MOVEMENt and other LIMITATIONS. (BTW, Heavy Armor Optimization is not a limitation, but a benifit) a limitation of Heavy Armor is that you can't sleep in it, but you can sleep in Mithral Heavy armor if you have the endurance feat. In my opinion, mithral armor is treated as the being armor from either category...so either heavy Armor prof. or medium armor prof would work to wear Heavy Mithral armor. Yes, this is the best of both worlds..but geez, you do pay 9k gold for the armor! Just seems that too many people can't handle a rule that lets armor be in two categories.
Fwib 03-23-06, 01:07 PM	In that case, I give you my usual LG answer: "Ask your Triad"