Mithral Full Plate (barding?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mithral Full Plate (barding?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
haferka
11-02-06, 11:23 AM I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH)

Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures?

I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits.
DuctShuiTengu
11-02-06, 02:58 PM I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH)
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the general consensus is that barding and armor are treated as different items as far as access goes.

Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures?
Logic says that no, it can't because different types of animals are going to be different shapes. However, the rules allow elves, dwarves, and half-orcs to wear the same medium sized mithral full-plate, despite the differences in size and shape. Expect to see some variation on this.
_m_
11-02-06, 05:45 PM not exactly ductshuitengu. the difference:

whist a medium dwarf, elf and human can wear the same set of mithril chain shirt, hide armour, studded leather etc. Plate must specifically be tailored to the character in question. you simply cannot don someone elses plate armour without taking it to a blacksmith and getting it reffitted first.

i would be inclined to say that leather armour, for example, would fit a large 4 legged rhino just as well as a large 4 legged tigger... but rhino plate would need alot of modifying.

and im pretty sure that if you have access to mithril, you can buy mithril barding of a sort of barding you have access too, but having specific access to mithril full plate wouldnt work, unless you had access to mithril full plate barding.

otherwise it would be like saying: i have access to a mithril great axe, so il buy a mithril great spear. they are different things.
Iswald
11-02-06, 11:28 PM I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH)

Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures?

I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits.

Generally, you can have the mithral full plate be full plate armor for any type of character of whatever size you need. But, it would be armor and not barding.

If you have magic armor or barding, you'll get around most objections to using the same armor for different creatures of the same size. A +1 enhancement is pretty cheap if you're looking at basic mithral full plate (or barding).
Gelth
11-03-06, 03:03 PM Barding is still armor from the PHB, it's just shaped for a non-humanoid wearer. To the best of my knowledge, any armor access is also barding access, unless it specifically disallows it. Otherwise, for one thing, all Centaurs would need special armor access.
Barding is still armor.

--Penn, Ket Triad
katrick
11-28-06, 06:01 PM i don't see any craft magic and barding feat so it is obviously armor
Howie23
11-28-06, 07:16 PM Barding is still armor from the PHB, it's just shaped for a non-humanoid wearer. To the best of my knowledge, any armor access is also barding access, unless it specifically disallows it. Otherwise, for one thing, all Centaurs would need special armor access.
Barding is still armor.

Centaurs are given special non-humanoid armor access via the BoBS Sourcebook. Does that help muddy the waters? :)

David
blood_kite
11-29-06, 11:57 AM So Gelth is saying that if I got access to a mithral chain shirt that came from a gnome in the mod, I can buy a set of large mithral chain shirt barding for my Dire Wolf? Sweet, but pushing the cheese and believability factors a little. I managed to avoid the arguement with a favor that allowed me to buy any mithral armor I had access to valued under 5000 gp.
Britt
11-29-06, 12:51 PM I'm 80% sure that access to a mithral chain shirt does not give you access to mithral chain shirt barding for your dog. On the other hand, having access to a suit of armor made of mithral probably would count for barding. As for centaurs, I don't know and it gives me a headache.

This is all personal thoughts, not a Circle ruling :)
JamesMaissen
11-29-06, 01:12 PM I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH)

Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures?

I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits.

All items on ARs are small or medium sized unless specified. I believe large sized centaurs have an exception for this.

But as to shaping of the armor (ie is it humanoid or non) I don't believe it is specified, so I would assume that one is free to choose.

Does it make sense that the human's magic armor is bought to wear on your dog? As much as it would for that armor to be worn by your halfling.. (or that you sold it for half just to buy it back for full for that matter).

-James
Britt
11-29-06, 01:44 PM The exceptions are there to keep from screwing the players, not to give players more ammunition to justify weird things ;) Exceptions rarely make sense.
Cynric
11-29-06, 07:51 PM I got around this problem by finding access to large chain shirt and using to buy the armour for my tiger, that way, no problems. So the access is out there, just not a lot of it.
Swiftbrook
11-30-06, 06:50 PM So, is the general opinion that if I have access to 1) a weapon or suit of armor or shield in the PHB can be crafted from mithril OR 2) "You may forge up to three items--weapons, shield, or armor--to which you have access from [mithril]" then I can purchase mithril barding for any medium or small critter?

-Swiftbrook
blood_kite
12-02-06, 01:39 PM The way those favors are worded it sounds like you could purchase mithral barding for any size critter.
TWG_Prometheus
12-03-06, 10:27 PM Yeah the wording on liberal favors like that is pretty nice. Most characters will want such armors for themselves, but Rangers that already have their Mithril Chain Shirts (fairly easy to acquire) or Druids that can't use Mithril anyway would find good use for liberal mithril favors in the direction of acquiring good barding for their animal companions.

Of course, many Judges might balk at Druids armoring their animal companions with metal...whoo for table variations.

To avoid table variation or uncomfortable questions as much as possible, I wouldn't use the average (Mithril Breastplate) ect access for barding.
Howie23
12-19-06, 02:19 AM I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH)

Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures?

I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20061219a

You made it to Dispel Confusion. :)

Summary: General AR access to a specified armor is humanoid only (small, medium, or centaur large by choice). Access must be to something liberal, such as, "can buy any one suit of armor made of AwesomeMetal.." in order to buy non-humanoid versions (barding for horse, tiger, wolf, ape, etc.) in whatever size.

David
haferka
12-19-06, 02:37 AM whooop!
clannagh
12-19-06, 05:48 PM Of course, many Judges might balk at Druids armoring their animal companions with metal...whoo for table variations.

To avoid table variation or uncomfortable questions as much as possible, I wouldn't use the average (Mithril Breastplate) ect access for barding.

I know personally the person who started and fuelled much of the mithral barding on druid animal companions controversy that occurred on the main boards earlier this year.

He now grudgingly admits he was using his 3.0 view of druids (which was stricter with druids and metal) and didnt even have the 3.5 handbook at the time.

In terms of the actual rules as written .. there is absolutely nothing preventing druids putting mithral on an animal companion .. the objections are purely peoples individual interpretation of how a "true druid should act" and are often motivated by the same very childish class based facism that results in the inane "fighters need xxx as they are underpowered" threads :)
DuctShuiTengu
12-20-06, 12:27 PM In terms of the actual rules as written .. there is absolutely nothing preventing druids putting mithral on an animal companion .. the objections are purely peoples individual interpretation of how a "true druid should act" and are often motivated by the same very childish class based facism that results in the inane "fighters need xxx as they are underpowered" threads :)

Actually, it would be more akin to the DM claiming that Barbarians can't have an Int above 8 because they're supposed to be stupid and uncultured.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
haferka 11-02-06, 11:23 AM	I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH) Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures? I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits.
DuctShuiTengu 11-02-06, 02:58 PM	I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH) I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the general consensus is that barding and armor are treated as different items as far as access goes. Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures? Logic says that no, it can't because different types of animals are going to be different shapes. However, the rules allow elves, dwarves, and half-orcs to wear the same medium sized mithral full-plate, despite the differences in size and shape. Expect to see some variation on this.
_m_ 11-02-06, 05:45 PM	not exactly ductshuitengu. the difference: whist a medium dwarf, elf and human can wear the same set of mithril chain shirt, hide armour, studded leather etc. Plate must specifically be tailored to the character in question. you simply cannot don someone elses plate armour without taking it to a blacksmith and getting it reffitted first. i would be inclined to say that leather armour, for example, would fit a large 4 legged rhino just as well as a large 4 legged tigger... but rhino plate would need alot of modifying. and im pretty sure that if you have access to mithril, you can buy mithril barding of a sort of barding you have access too, but having specific access to mithril full plate wouldnt work, unless you had access to mithril full plate barding. otherwise it would be like saying: i have access to a mithril great axe, so il buy a mithril great spear. they are different things.
Iswald 11-02-06, 11:28 PM	I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH) Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures? I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits. Generally, you can have the mithral full plate be full plate armor for any type of character of whatever size you need. But, it would be armor and not barding. If you have magic armor or barding, you'll get around most objections to using the same armor for different creatures of the same size. A +1 enhancement is pretty cheap if you're looking at basic mithral full plate (or barding).
Gelth 11-03-06, 03:03 PM	Barding is still armor from the PHB, it's just shaped for a non-humanoid wearer. To the best of my knowledge, any armor access is also barding access, unless it specifically disallows it. Otherwise, for one thing, all Centaurs would need special armor access. Barding is still armor. --Penn, Ket Triad
katrick 11-28-06, 06:01 PM	i don't see any craft magic and barding feat so it is obviously armor
Howie23 11-28-06, 07:16 PM	Barding is still armor from the PHB, it's just shaped for a non-humanoid wearer. To the best of my knowledge, any armor access is also barding access, unless it specifically disallows it. Otherwise, for one thing, all Centaurs would need special armor access. Barding is still armor. Centaurs are given special non-humanoid armor access via the BoBS Sourcebook. Does that help muddy the waters? :) David
blood_kite 11-29-06, 11:57 AM	So Gelth is saying that if I got access to a mithral chain shirt that came from a gnome in the mod, I can buy a set of large mithral chain shirt barding for my Dire Wolf? Sweet, but pushing the cheese and believability factors a little. I managed to avoid the arguement with a favor that allowed me to buy any mithral armor I had access to valued under 5000 gp.
Britt 11-29-06, 12:51 PM	I'm 80% sure that access to a mithral chain shirt does not give you access to mithral chain shirt barding for your dog. On the other hand, having access to a suit of armor made of mithral probably would count for barding. As for centaurs, I don't know and it gives me a headache. This is all personal thoughts, not a Circle ruling :)
JamesMaissen 11-29-06, 01:12 PM	I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH) Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures? I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits. All items on ARs are small or medium sized unless specified. I believe large sized centaurs have an exception for this. But as to shaping of the armor (ie is it humanoid or non) I don't believe it is specified, so I would assume that one is free to choose. Does it make sense that the human's magic armor is bought to wear on your dog? As much as it would for that armor to be worn by your halfling.. (or that you sold it for half just to buy it back for full for that matter). -James
Britt 11-29-06, 01:44 PM	The exceptions are there to keep from screwing the players, not to give players more ammunition to justify weird things ;) Exceptions rarely make sense.
Cynric 11-29-06, 07:51 PM	I got around this problem by finding access to large chain shirt and using to buy the armour for my tiger, that way, no problems. So the access is out there, just not a lot of it.
Swiftbrook 11-30-06, 06:50 PM	So, is the general opinion that if I have access to 1) a weapon or suit of armor or shield in the PHB can be crafted from mithril OR 2) "You may forge up to three items--weapons, shield, or armor--to which you have access from [mithril]" then I can purchase mithril barding for any medium or small critter? -Swiftbrook
blood_kite 12-02-06, 01:39 PM	The way those favors are worded it sounds like you could purchase mithral barding for any size critter.
TWG_Prometheus 12-03-06, 10:27 PM	Yeah the wording on liberal favors like that is pretty nice. Most characters will want such armors for themselves, but Rangers that already have their Mithril Chain Shirts (fairly easy to acquire) or Druids that can't use Mithril anyway would find good use for liberal mithril favors in the direction of acquiring good barding for their animal companions. Of course, many Judges might balk at Druids armoring their animal companions with metal...whoo for table variations. To avoid table variation or uncomfortable questions as much as possible, I wouldn't use the average (Mithril Breastplate) ect access for barding.
Howie23 12-19-06, 02:19 AM	I have access to "Mithral full plate", can this be barding? or "Armor for unusual creatures"? (p123 PH) Can the same "Barding/armor" be used for different creatures? I don't see anything that requires me to specify what "creature" it fits. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20061219a You made it to Dispel Confusion. :) Summary: General AR access to a specified armor is humanoid only (small, medium, or centaur large by choice). Access must be to something liberal, such as, "can buy any one suit of armor made of AwesomeMetal.." in order to buy non-humanoid versions (barding for horse, tiger, wolf, ape, etc.) in whatever size. David
haferka 12-19-06, 02:37 AM	whooop!
clannagh 12-19-06, 05:48 PM	Of course, many Judges might balk at Druids armoring their animal companions with metal...whoo for table variations. To avoid table variation or uncomfortable questions as much as possible, I wouldn't use the average (Mithril Breastplate) ect access for barding. I know personally the person who started and fuelled much of the mithral barding on druid animal companions controversy that occurred on the main boards earlier this year. He now grudgingly admits he was using his 3.0 view of druids (which was stricter with druids and metal) and didnt even have the 3.5 handbook at the time. In terms of the actual rules as written .. there is absolutely nothing preventing druids putting mithral on an animal companion .. the objections are purely peoples individual interpretation of how a "true druid should act" and are often motivated by the same very childish class based facism that results in the inane "fighters need xxx as they are underpowered" threads :)
DuctShuiTengu 12-20-06, 12:27 PM	In terms of the actual rules as written .. there is absolutely nothing preventing druids putting mithral on an animal companion .. the objections are purely peoples individual interpretation of how a "true druid should act" and are often motivated by the same very childish class based facism that results in the inane "fighters need xxx as they are underpowered" threads :) Actually, it would be more akin to the DM claiming that Barbarians can't have an Int above 8 because they're supposed to be stupid and uncultured.