Post/Author/DateTime	Post
delewobmesid 05-09-07, 12:51 PM	Let's say I'm a level 1 ranger; I have knowledge nature as a class skill and take 4 ranks; I then take a level of fighter and want to increase my knowledge nature; as this is a cross class skill for a fighter, and max ranks for a cross class skill at level 2 is 2.5, can I legally add to a cross class skill that is already above the max cross class ranks? I ask because I'm seeing several builds that are inturrepting the rules this way while I think the cross class skill cap applies in this case.
pedr 05-09-07, 01:00 PM	Your max ranks for a skill which is a class skill for any of your classes is 3+level. However, you buy ranks with skill points at the rate appropriate to the level you're taking. In your example, you could add an extra rank to knowledge (nature) as you have 4 ranks and your max ranks are 5. It will cost you two of your (precious!) 2+int mod skill points to do so.
kenobi65 05-09-07, 01:37 PM	pedr's got it. Max ranks is based on whether the skill in question is a class skill for *any* of your classes. However, the class / cross-class skill distinction still holds when you're determining how much a skill rank costs you when you level up. When you gain a level in a class, you have to follow that class' skill list to determine which skills you can buy at the 1/1 class-skill rate, and which you have to buy at the 1/2 cross-class-skill rate. So, in your example, because you took 2nd level in Fighter (for which Knowledge (nature) is a cross-class skill), you have to spend 2 skill points on that additional rank of Knowledge (nature).
jstorrie 05-09-07, 03:56 PM	However! If you took four ranks of Jump with your second Fighter level, you could then retrain at fifth level and convert them straight to four levels of Knowledge: Nature, saving you a few skill points at the cost of some TUs.
kenobi65 05-09-07, 04:01 PM	However! If you took four ranks of Jump with your second Fighter level, you could then retrain at fifth level and convert them straight to four levels of Knowledge: Nature, saving you a few skill points at the cost of some TUs. Yes, you could...and also gain the distinct smell of cheddar at the same time. :D
bitznarf 05-09-07, 04:29 PM	Bah. Using the rules to your advantage isn't cheesy. Everyone does it, just to different extents. If you didn't, you would have fighters wandering around wondering why that Wand of Fireball wasn't working for them and the medium Wizard running around with a large size great scimitar trying to hit things with 8 strength.
KShaver 05-10-07, 01:28 PM	However! If you took four ranks of Jump with your second Fighter level, you could then retrain at fifth level and convert them straight to four levels of Knowledge: Nature, saving you a few skill points at the cost of some TUs. But you sill have to contend with max ranks at that point and can't transfer the maximum of 4 over unless you had under ranked the skill previously with the intention of transferring points over. Secondly you have to pay the fairly high costs to retrain. By the PHBII the cost for retraining skills is almost insignificant, but the LGCS bumps that number up quite a bit. Still it would work, but I would only suggest it your build required it.
katrick 05-18-07, 02:13 PM	But you sill have to contend with max ranks at that point and can't transfer the maximum of 4 over unless you had under ranked the skill previously with the intention of transferring points over. Secondly you have to pay the fairly high costs to retrain. By the PHBII the cost for retraining skills is almost insignificant, but the LGCS bumps that number up quite a bit. Still it would work, but I would only suggest it your build required it. How was it bumped, i only paid 100gp per level?? in the example this would cost 100gp. Right?? Does it cost per point mine was for a feat?? katrick
trollbill 05-18-07, 02:52 PM	How was it bumped, i only paid 100gp per level?? in the example this would cost 100gp. Right?? Does it cost per point mine was for a feat?? katrick It's 100 gp per level of the level you are going to (100gp x you new level). So it costs you 200gp to retrain at 2nd. Not cheap for a low level, but can still be worth it in the long run. It requires even more planning that usual, though.
KShaver 05-18-07, 02:53 PM	How was it bumped, i only paid 100gp per level?? in the example this would cost 100gp. Right?? Does it cost per point mine was for a feat?? katrick 100g per level (of the new level) is correct, so if you are level 1 leveling to 2 then retraining is 200g. Consider that up until APL8 the cost is greater than 10% of the gp you made that level I would call it significant. In the PHBII the only retraining item that has that kind of cost associated with it is a class feature, everything else has a fixed value (not multiplied by level). IIRC skills are only 25gp per skill point moved (max 4 still), but as I said the costs is fixed regardless of your level. So a 11-12th level character who wants to move 2 skill points: PHBII = 25x2 = 50gp LGCS = 100x12 = 1200gp So, for the most part, the cost of retraining was dramatically increased in the LGCS. Again I would only suggest retraining if it is absolutely necessary.
katrick 05-18-07, 03:21 PM	so it's the level you go to, not the level you came from.. Godammit, I owe the LGCS another 100gp, on top of Alter Self And i just forked out a whole level of xp cause i didn't realise it was 40% not 20%, hell i think i just take a 5th class and make it easy for myself. katrick P.S. my Ar's are up the creek, without a padlle or a depth sounder.Might as well just call in Andy Warhol
Timlagor 05-18-07, 06:12 PM	You know you can still have Alter Self in your spell book and use it for crafting?