Net and Trident TWF [Archive] - Wizards Community

Net and Trident TWF [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 02:30 PM I had a couple questions about two-weapon fighting with a Net and Trident.

Question 1: The Feat Net and Trident actually does nothing for you. the Full round action the feat lets you perform you can do anyways. Am I wrong?

Question 2: Lets say I'm 10' away from my opponent, I have a net and trident out, and I have the two-weapon fighting feat. I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Then, I 5' step foward and attack with my trident. Am I allowed to wield the trident in two hands after my net attack since my hand is open? If not, why?

Question 3: Lets say I'm a Large creature and 10' away from my opponent. I have a net and trident out, and I have the improved two-weapon fighting feat. If I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Attack twice, or three times if my bab is +11, with my trident (2-handed if the awnser to question 2 is yes) can I then after my attacks quick draw a net, throw it with my second off-hand attack, and hold onto the rope this time?

These all seem like legal actions and possibly a reason for actually using a net and trident.
trollbill
11-17-06, 02:46 PM I had a couple questions about two-weapon fighting with a Net and Trident.

Question 1: The Feat Net and Trident actually does nothing for you. the Full round action the feat lets you perform you can do anyways. Am I wrong?

Don't know the text of the feat.

Question 2: Lets say I'm 10' away from my opponent, I have a net and trident out, and I have the two-weapon fighting feat. I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Then, I 5' step foward and attack with my trident. Am I allowed to wield the trident in two hands after my net attack since my hand is open? If not, why?

No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers.

Question 3: Lets say I'm a Large creature and 10' away from my opponent. I have a net and trident out, and I have the improved two-weapon fighting feat. If I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Attack twice, or three times if my bab is +11, with my trident (2-handed if the awnser to question 2 is yes) can I then after my attacks quick draw a net, throw it with my second off-hand attack, and hold onto the rope this time?

No, to the 2-handed trident use. Yes to the rest, but a DM may rule you suffer the -4 penalty for not folding it depending of if he interprets the rule as being folded before or after it is equiped. Also note that most means of getting Large in LG means thrown weapons shrink back down when you throw them, so you could not Enlarge Person yourself, for example, to grapple a Huge creature with a net.
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 03:06 PM No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers.

I understand your point, and that was the one thing I could think of that would make that not a legal turn, but do you know where that is cited in the PHB or another rulebook?
ShinAkuma2
11-17-06, 04:24 PM Net and Trident allows you to avoid TWF penalties.

If you successfully Net, you get a full attack with the Trident. No need for Two-Weapon Fighting here.
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 04:40 PM And the trident attacks are 2-handed then?
Alpha_Nerd
11-18-06, 03:18 AM No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers.

Quoted from d20srd.com: "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way."

Nowhere in this does it say you can not attack with the trident two-handed. I first make the attack with the net, which gives me the -6 penalty to the rest of my attacks. Then I make my attacks with my trident which are completely independent from my net attacks except for the penalty incurred.
Iswald
11-18-06, 04:38 AM Looking at the feat closely, I don't see any real benefit. It doesn't say you avoid the penalties for TWF. Also, you have to control the net with the opposed strength check. So, you couldn't switch from using the trident in one hand to using it two handed since you have to hold onto the line for the net to control it. If you just didn't want to use the feat, then you probably could do the full attack with your trident two handed.

Maybe you could take a 5' step, throw the net and then take another 5' step and still get a full attack with your trident (and skirmish damage for moving 10')?

In general, you might find some difficulties when changing grip on your weapon from one to two handed. The FAQ says (or used to say or imply) that it would take a move action to put your hand back on your weapon (such as a quarterstaff) if you'd let go for some reason (ie, to cast a spell). Somewhere else, maybe one of the articles about the game may have said returning to using the weapon two handed didn't take an action. So, yeah, there is some confusion and disagreement in this area. I think, though, that only a minority of judges will ask for a move action. You can avoid the issue by asking the judge about it, not doing it or having the quickdraw feat.
Iswald
11-18-06, 05:04 AM Net and Trident allows you to avoid TWF penalties.

If you successfully Net, you get a full attack with the Trident. No need for Two-Weapon Fighting here.

I think your choices are to either two weapon fight for an extra attack and penalties or just make a normal full attack. If you use the two weapon fighting approach, the feat doesn't help since you do, for an +11 BAB PC, +9 (net)/+9 (trident)/+4 (trident)/-1 (trident) attack sequence. (Assuming a -2 penalty for TWF and another other bonuses and penalties for simplicity.)

For a full attack, you'd normally be able to do this: +11 (net)/+6 (trident)/+1 (trident). With the feat, you can possibly manage an extra attack in there: +11 (net)/+11 (trident)/+6 (trident)/+1 (trident).
Alpha_Nerd
11-18-06, 05:22 AM The build I'm working with has the quick draw feat incase he has to quick draw a pre-folded net and throw that as his second attack, so drawing the trident is no problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 02:30 PM	I had a couple questions about two-weapon fighting with a Net and Trident. Question 1: The Feat Net and Trident actually does nothing for you. the Full round action the feat lets you perform you can do anyways. Am I wrong? Question 2: Lets say I'm 10' away from my opponent, I have a net and trident out, and I have the two-weapon fighting feat. I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Then, I 5' step foward and attack with my trident. Am I allowed to wield the trident in two hands after my net attack since my hand is open? If not, why? Question 3: Lets say I'm a Large creature and 10' away from my opponent. I have a net and trident out, and I have the improved two-weapon fighting feat. If I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Attack twice, or three times if my bab is +11, with my trident (2-handed if the awnser to question 2 is yes) can I then after my attacks quick draw a net, throw it with my second off-hand attack, and hold onto the rope this time? These all seem like legal actions and possibly a reason for actually using a net and trident.
trollbill 11-17-06, 02:46 PM	I had a couple questions about two-weapon fighting with a Net and Trident. Question 1: The Feat Net and Trident actually does nothing for you. the Full round action the feat lets you perform you can do anyways. Am I wrong? Don't know the text of the feat. Question 2: Lets say I'm 10' away from my opponent, I have a net and trident out, and I have the two-weapon fighting feat. I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Then, I 5' step foward and attack with my trident. Am I allowed to wield the trident in two hands after my net attack since my hand is open? If not, why? No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers. Question 3: Lets say I'm a Large creature and 10' away from my opponent. I have a net and trident out, and I have the improved two-weapon fighting feat. If I throw the net, but do not hold onto the rope. Attack twice, or three times if my bab is +11, with my trident (2-handed if the awnser to question 2 is yes) can I then after my attacks quick draw a net, throw it with my second off-hand attack, and hold onto the rope this time? No, to the 2-handed trident use. Yes to the rest, but a DM may rule you suffer the -4 penalty for not folding it depending of if he interprets the rule as being folded before or after it is equiped. Also note that most means of getting Large in LG means thrown weapons shrink back down when you throw them, so you could not Enlarge Person yourself, for example, to grapple a Huge creature with a net.
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 03:06 PM	No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers. I understand your point, and that was the one thing I could think of that would make that not a legal turn, but do you know where that is cited in the PHB or another rulebook?
ShinAkuma2 11-17-06, 04:24 PM	Net and Trident allows you to avoid TWF penalties. If you successfully Net, you get a full attack with the Trident. No need for Two-Weapon Fighting here.
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 04:40 PM	And the trident attacks are 2-handed then?
Alpha_Nerd 11-18-06, 03:18 AM	No. Because in any given round you are either fighting with a weapon in two hands or you are using two-weapon fighting. Whichever one you start the round using is the one you get the modifiers for. Which, in this case, is TWF. If you wish to say you have it in two hands for RP reason, I suppose you could, but it would not effect your modifiers. Quoted from d20srd.com: "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way." Nowhere in this does it say you can not attack with the trident two-handed. I first make the attack with the net, which gives me the -6 penalty to the rest of my attacks. Then I make my attacks with my trident which are completely independent from my net attacks except for the penalty incurred.
Iswald 11-18-06, 04:38 AM	Looking at the feat closely, I don't see any real benefit. It doesn't say you avoid the penalties for TWF. Also, you have to control the net with the opposed strength check. So, you couldn't switch from using the trident in one hand to using it two handed since you have to hold onto the line for the net to control it. If you just didn't want to use the feat, then you probably could do the full attack with your trident two handed. Maybe you could take a 5' step, throw the net and then take another 5' step and still get a full attack with your trident (and skirmish damage for moving 10')? In general, you might find some difficulties when changing grip on your weapon from one to two handed. The FAQ says (or used to say or imply) that it would take a move action to put your hand back on your weapon (such as a quarterstaff) if you'd let go for some reason (ie, to cast a spell). Somewhere else, maybe one of the articles about the game may have said returning to using the weapon two handed didn't take an action. So, yeah, there is some confusion and disagreement in this area. I think, though, that only a minority of judges will ask for a move action. You can avoid the issue by asking the judge about it, not doing it or having the quickdraw feat.
Iswald 11-18-06, 05:04 AM	Net and Trident allows you to avoid TWF penalties. If you successfully Net, you get a full attack with the Trident. No need for Two-Weapon Fighting here. I think your choices are to either two weapon fight for an extra attack and penalties or just make a normal full attack. If you use the two weapon fighting approach, the feat doesn't help since you do, for an +11 BAB PC, +9 (net)/+9 (trident)/+4 (trident)/-1 (trident) attack sequence. (Assuming a -2 penalty for TWF and another other bonuses and penalties for simplicity.) For a full attack, you'd normally be able to do this: +11 (net)/+6 (trident)/+1 (trident). With the feat, you can possibly manage an extra attack in there: +11 (net)/+11 (trident)/+6 (trident)/+1 (trident).
Alpha_Nerd 11-18-06, 05:22 AM	The build I'm working with has the quick draw feat incase he has to quick draw a pre-folded net and throw that as his second attack, so drawing the trident is no problem.