Nonadventuring Activity Perform check [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nonadventuring Activity Perform check [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SidneyHK
11-09-06, 12:03 PM This looks like the correct forum to ask this question, so if somebody can get me an official ruling, I'd appreciate it.

According to the Landless Nobility feat in Dragon 315, the PC receives a +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland.

According to the LGCS, Perform can be used to provide Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity only if done after a home region mod.

Question: Does the +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland add to the Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity Perform check after a home region mod?

I'm thinking about starting a Bard or Rogue with Perform and the +4 bump would help a lot.

I was also looking at the Marshall PC class and could see a 1st level Marshall having a +19 at 1st level to his Perform check. 4 skill points + 4 Charisma bonus + 4 bonus from Marshall special ability to bump Charisma skill checks + 4 Landless Nobility + 3 Skill Specialization.

Sidney
KShaver
11-09-06, 12:20 PM Question: Does the +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland add to the Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity Perform check after a home region mod?

I'm thinking about starting a Bard or Rogue with Perform and the +4 bump would help a lot.

I was also looking at the Marshall PC class and could see a 1st level Marshall having a +19 at 1st level to his Perform check. 4 skill points + 4 Charisma bonus + 4 bonus from Marshall special ability to bump Charisma skill checks + 4 Landless Nobility + 3 Skill Specialization.

I would say the feat is going to apply every time you get to make the check, simply because you have to be in your home region to make the check.

As far as stacking up the mods goes, your character is going to suffer qute a bit in other areas just to get that big of a roll...but if you are going all out, where's the masterwork instrument bonus?
kenobi65
11-09-06, 02:20 PM As far as stacking up the mods goes, your character is going to suffer qute a bit in other areas just to get that big of a roll...but if you are going all out, where's the masterwork instrument bonus?

At low levels, the extra GP seem to be worth it (with a result of 30+, which you'll be able to get almost half the time at 1st level with that +19, you'll average 135gp per try, with an opportunity to do it again at +4 for a similar amont), but unless you get something that lets you do it even more often, or get more money for it, you're already at the top of the scale for performing for cash, and the extra couple hundred GP aren't going to be as much help in the higher levels.
KShaver
11-09-06, 03:06 PM At low levels, the extra GP seem to be worth it (with a result of 30+, which you'll be able to get almost half the time at 1st level with that +19, you'll average 135gp per try, with an opportunity to do it again at +4 for a similar amont), but unless you get something that lets you do it even more often, or get more money for it, you're already at the top of the scale for performing for cash, and the extra couple hundred GP aren't going to be as much help in the higher levels.

The way I look at it is:

Money vs 2 feats, 4+ skill points, sinkholing a bunch of attribute points in charisma, and possibly some money

I have a marshall who has a good perform, but sinking two feats and that many attribute points doesn't seem worth it. Even with just a 16 charisma my physical attributes suffer enough to hurt my combat performance significantly (my rolls don't help either).

If one is going to put that much effort into something why not make it something usefull. How about a marshall/rogue or marshall/bard and instead make remarkably good tumbling checks, they use the same chart and give you a usefull combat skill combined with a usefull combat aura (and yes will still have quite high social skills). With a 16 dex, 16 charisma, motivate dex, max ranks, synergy from jump, skill focus, and acrobatic you could have a +18 by 2nd level...by George I think I may have found my next rogue character.
budleiser
11-09-06, 06:27 PM The way I look at it is:

Money vs 2 feats, 4+ skill points, sinkholing a bunch of attribute points in charisma, and possibly some money

I have a marshall who has a good perform, but sinking two feats and that many attribute points doesn't seem worth it. Even with just a 16 charisma my physical attributes suffer enough to hurt my combat performance significantly (my rolls don't help either).

If one is going to put that much effort into something why not make it something usefull. How about a marshall/rogue or marshall/bard and instead make remarkably good tumbling checks, they use the same chart and give you a usefull combat skill combined with a usefull combat aura (and yes will still have quite high social skills). With a 16 dex, 16 charisma, motivate dex, max ranks, synergy from jump, skill focus, and acrobatic you could have a +18 by 2nd level...by George I think I may have found my next rogue character.

Good job, youve tumbled the encounter.
SidneyHK
11-09-06, 07:19 PM The Marshall does have some pretty game altering possibilities.

Level 1: + Charasma Bonus to Skill rolls. So everyone in the party could be bumped by 4 for all Diplomacy, Gather Information and other Charasma skill checks.

As you advance, other Minor Auras could be bumps to Wisdom and Intelligence.

So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised.

Once encountering a potential foe, the Marshall shifts to Charasma for Diplomacy and everyone could assist. +8 for the Marshall's Diplomacy check along with any friendly assists of up to an additional +10. That's +18 before Skills for the Marshall's Diplomacy roll at first level. I think the class also has a Diplomacy skill focus at first level for an additional +3 or +21 total. At that rate, the Marshall is close to talking his way out of just about any bad situation.

Needing to research or make a Knowledge skill roll is an additional +4 for any PC who has at least 1 rank in the Knowledge. Pretty sweet.

The extra money is kool for non-adventuring activities.

There is nothing to stop you from taking a 16 in Charasma to start with and beef up your other abilities. But, you lose a +1 or +2 bump depending on how you look at it.

Sidney
Arvagor
11-09-06, 07:58 PM So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised.Which doesn't really matter much, since your foes aren't surprised either, what with all the talking the Marshal is doing to "motivate" you...
catsclaw
11-28-06, 05:24 PM Which doesn't really matter much, since your foes aren't surprised either, what with all the talking the Marshal is doing to "motivate" you...The Marshal doesn't need to talk to keep motivating a stat, just to start motivating one. To keep motivating a stat the Marshal needs to be able to communicate to teammates, but isn't required to run off at the mouth.
Arvagor
11-28-06, 06:29 PM The Marshal doesn't need to talk to keep motivating a stat, just to start motivating one. To keep motivating a stat the Marshal needs to be able to communicate to teammates, but isn't required to run off at the mouth.All I will say is that the description is vague enough (" ... affects all allies ... who can hear the marshal.") that some DMs will rule the marshal is always talking. I have seen it ruled that way, and supported in appeal up to the senior DM level at a large con (i.e., Origins and/or GenCon)
KShaver
11-29-06, 07:57 AM So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised.

This requires someone in the party to have decent spot/listen already. Since this doesn't always happen, I use motivate dex as the default. Even if the party gets surprised at least they act extremely fast the next round. Combine that with improved initiative on a 4+ level marshall and you have the ability to move the entire party into position before they take their actions before the surprisers get to go again (at least in theory it all works out, I have yet to get a decent initiative even with a +9).
Mommy was an Orc
11-29-06, 10:34 PM All I will say is that the description is vague enough (" ... affects all allies ... who can hear the marshal.") that some DMs will rule the marshal is always talking. I have seen it ruled that way, and supported in appeal up to the senior DM level at a large con (i.e., Origins and/or GenCon)

I rule that way as well(and I play a Bard 7/Marshal 1 with Motivate Charisma as my primary) - two points:
You're a Bard with presumably a high Bluff score and the spell Message...

Anyway, Motivate Charisma is only a really good choice if you structure your build around it, and not in the obvious way. The thing is, you simply won't need a +50 Diplomacy check 99.9% of the time, it won't be useful or worse, you'll miss the encounter that gave you access.

If you take Motivate Charisma, you put roughly half ranks into all your Charisma skills - then you're still amazing at the skills, but you have more than enough skill points to afford Sublime Chord without sacrificing your role as party Face.

As an example(I have a Circlet of Persuasion I crafted and a couple of small +1 bonuses from metaorgs in there):
Skill Ranks Total Modifier
Bluff 5 = +18
Diplomacy 5 = +27
Disguise 0 = +13
Gather Information 1 = +15
Intimidate 6 = +21
Perform(Act) 11 = +24
Perform(String) 3 = +18
Use Magic Device 11 = +24

Even though I only spent 17 skill points on the 1st 5 skills, I'm at least as good as a 14 Charisma character who maxxed them out. In essence, instead of getting 6 skill points per level, I'm a 9 skill points per level character who has two +5 bonuses to skills on top of that.
solbergb
11-30-06, 08:04 PM One of the more entertaining sessions I played was with a marshall that had motivate charisma.

The party had a bunch of 6 and 8 charisma no-social-skill characters put into a party situation and with the Marshall's coaching and advice they were actually popular and attractive!

This went every bit as badly in the long run as you can imagine, but it was fun disaster. The table was roaring with laughter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SidneyHK 11-09-06, 12:03 PM	This looks like the correct forum to ask this question, so if somebody can get me an official ruling, I'd appreciate it. According to the Landless Nobility feat in Dragon 315, the PC receives a +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland. According to the LGCS, Perform can be used to provide Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity only if done after a home region mod. Question: Does the +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland add to the Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity Perform check after a home region mod? I'm thinking about starting a Bard or Rogue with Perform and the +4 bump would help a lot. I was also looking at the Marshall PC class and could see a 1st level Marshall having a +19 at 1st level to his Perform check. 4 skill points + 4 Charisma bonus + 4 bonus from Marshall special ability to bump Charisma skill checks + 4 Landless Nobility + 3 Skill Specialization. Sidney
KShaver 11-09-06, 12:20 PM	Question: Does the +4 bonus on Charisma based skill checks made against residents of his homeland add to the Benefits from Nonadventuring Activity Perform check after a home region mod? I'm thinking about starting a Bard or Rogue with Perform and the +4 bump would help a lot. I was also looking at the Marshall PC class and could see a 1st level Marshall having a +19 at 1st level to his Perform check. 4 skill points + 4 Charisma bonus + 4 bonus from Marshall special ability to bump Charisma skill checks + 4 Landless Nobility + 3 Skill Specialization. I would say the feat is going to apply every time you get to make the check, simply because you have to be in your home region to make the check. As far as stacking up the mods goes, your character is going to suffer qute a bit in other areas just to get that big of a roll...but if you are going all out, where's the masterwork instrument bonus?
kenobi65 11-09-06, 02:20 PM	As far as stacking up the mods goes, your character is going to suffer qute a bit in other areas just to get that big of a roll...but if you are going all out, where's the masterwork instrument bonus? At low levels, the extra GP seem to be worth it (with a result of 30+, which you'll be able to get almost half the time at 1st level with that +19, you'll average 135gp per try, with an opportunity to do it again at +4 for a similar amont), but unless you get something that lets you do it even more often, or get more money for it, you're already at the top of the scale for performing for cash, and the extra couple hundred GP aren't going to be as much help in the higher levels.
KShaver 11-09-06, 03:06 PM	At low levels, the extra GP seem to be worth it (with a result of 30+, which you'll be able to get almost half the time at 1st level with that +19, you'll average 135gp per try, with an opportunity to do it again at +4 for a similar amont), but unless you get something that lets you do it even more often, or get more money for it, you're already at the top of the scale for performing for cash, and the extra couple hundred GP aren't going to be as much help in the higher levels. The way I look at it is: Money vs 2 feats, 4+ skill points, sinkholing a bunch of attribute points in charisma, and possibly some money I have a marshall who has a good perform, but sinking two feats and that many attribute points doesn't seem worth it. Even with just a 16 charisma my physical attributes suffer enough to hurt my combat performance significantly (my rolls don't help either). If one is going to put that much effort into something why not make it something usefull. How about a marshall/rogue or marshall/bard and instead make remarkably good tumbling checks, they use the same chart and give you a usefull combat skill combined with a usefull combat aura (and yes will still have quite high social skills). With a 16 dex, 16 charisma, motivate dex, max ranks, synergy from jump, skill focus, and acrobatic you could have a +18 by 2nd level...by George I think I may have found my next rogue character.
budleiser 11-09-06, 06:27 PM	The way I look at it is: Money vs 2 feats, 4+ skill points, sinkholing a bunch of attribute points in charisma, and possibly some money I have a marshall who has a good perform, but sinking two feats and that many attribute points doesn't seem worth it. Even with just a 16 charisma my physical attributes suffer enough to hurt my combat performance significantly (my rolls don't help either). If one is going to put that much effort into something why not make it something usefull. How about a marshall/rogue or marshall/bard and instead make remarkably good tumbling checks, they use the same chart and give you a usefull combat skill combined with a usefull combat aura (and yes will still have quite high social skills). With a 16 dex, 16 charisma, motivate dex, max ranks, synergy from jump, skill focus, and acrobatic you could have a +18 by 2nd level...by George I think I may have found my next rogue character. Good job, youve tumbled the encounter.
SidneyHK 11-09-06, 07:19 PM	The Marshall does have some pretty game altering possibilities. Level 1: + Charasma Bonus to Skill rolls. So everyone in the party could be bumped by 4 for all Diplomacy, Gather Information and other Charasma skill checks. As you advance, other Minor Auras could be bumps to Wisdom and Intelligence. So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised. Once encountering a potential foe, the Marshall shifts to Charasma for Diplomacy and everyone could assist. +8 for the Marshall's Diplomacy check along with any friendly assists of up to an additional +10. That's +18 before Skills for the Marshall's Diplomacy roll at first level. I think the class also has a Diplomacy skill focus at first level for an additional +3 or +21 total. At that rate, the Marshall is close to talking his way out of just about any bad situation. Needing to research or make a Knowledge skill roll is an additional +4 for any PC who has at least 1 rank in the Knowledge. Pretty sweet. The extra money is kool for non-adventuring activities. There is nothing to stop you from taking a 16 in Charasma to start with and beef up your other abilities. But, you lose a +1 or +2 bump depending on how you look at it. Sidney
Arvagor 11-09-06, 07:58 PM	So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised.Which doesn't really matter much, since your foes aren't surprised either, what with all the talking the Marshal is doing to "motivate" you...
catsclaw 11-28-06, 05:24 PM	Which doesn't really matter much, since your foes aren't surprised either, what with all the talking the Marshal is doing to "motivate" you...The Marshal doesn't need to talk to keep motivating a stat, just to start motivating one. To keep motivating a stat the Marshal needs to be able to communicate to teammates, but isn't required to run off at the mouth.
Arvagor 11-28-06, 06:29 PM	The Marshal doesn't need to talk to keep motivating a stat, just to start motivating one. To keep motivating a stat the Marshal needs to be able to communicate to teammates, but isn't required to run off at the mouth.All I will say is that the description is vague enough (" ... affects all allies ... who can hear the marshal.") that some DMs will rule the marshal is always talking. I have seen it ruled that way, and supported in appeal up to the senior DM level at a large con (i.e., Origins and/or GenCon)
KShaver 11-29-06, 07:57 AM	So as the party walks along with the Marshall bumping Wisdom Skills, it would be harder for any PC to be surprised. This requires someone in the party to have decent spot/listen already. Since this doesn't always happen, I use motivate dex as the default. Even if the party gets surprised at least they act extremely fast the next round. Combine that with improved initiative on a 4+ level marshall and you have the ability to move the entire party into position before they take their actions before the surprisers get to go again (at least in theory it all works out, I have yet to get a decent initiative even with a +9).
Mommy was an Orc 11-29-06, 10:34 PM	All I will say is that the description is vague enough (" ... affects all allies ... who can hear the marshal.") that some DMs will rule the marshal is always talking. I have seen it ruled that way, and supported in appeal up to the senior DM level at a large con (i.e., Origins and/or GenCon) I rule that way as well(and I play a Bard 7/Marshal 1 with Motivate Charisma as my primary) - two points: You're a Bard with presumably a high Bluff score and the spell Message... Anyway, Motivate Charisma is only a really good choice if you structure your build around it, and not in the obvious way. The thing is, you simply won't need a +50 Diplomacy check 99.9% of the time, it won't be useful or worse, you'll miss the encounter that gave you access. If you take Motivate Charisma, you put roughly half ranks into all your Charisma skills - then you're still amazing at the skills, but you have more than enough skill points to afford Sublime Chord without sacrificing your role as party Face. As an example(I have a Circlet of Persuasion I crafted and a couple of small +1 bonuses from metaorgs in there): Skill Ranks Total Modifier Bluff 5 = +18 Diplomacy 5 = +27 Disguise 0 = +13 Gather Information 1 = +15 Intimidate 6 = +21 Perform(Act) 11 = +24 Perform(String) 3 = +18 Use Magic Device 11 = +24 Even though I only spent 17 skill points on the 1st 5 skills, I'm at least as good as a 14 Charisma character who maxxed them out. In essence, instead of getting 6 skill points per level, I'm a 9 skill points per level character who has two +5 bonuses to skills on top of that.
solbergb 11-30-06, 08:04 PM	One of the more entertaining sessions I played was with a marshall that had motivate charisma. The party had a bunch of 6 and 8 charisma no-social-skill characters put into a party situation and with the Marshall's coaching and advice they were actually popular and attractive! This went every bit as badly in the long run as you can imagine, but it was fun disaster. The table was roaring with laughter.