Post/Author/DateTime	Post
amnuxoll 07-04-07, 10:03 PM	I'm sure you'll all have plenty of dissenting opinions but since I took the time to compile this list for my cruel plots Triad master I thought I'd share it with you. Overpowered These are items that I don't think should be in Living Greyhawk. Frankly, given that there are over 1000 magic items in the book I think this list is rather short. I give kudos to the WotC development team for that. Armor Properties: Displacement Specific Armor: Mithralmist Shirt Armor Augment Crystals: Clasp of Energy Protection Crystal of Arrow Deflection Ironward Diamond Weapon Properties: Impaling Warning Specific Weapons: Assassin Whip Galeb Duhr Hammer Rod of Defiance$ Stunshot Sling Whip of Webs Weapon Augment Crystals: Witchlight Reservoir Crystal of Energy Assault (greater) Clothing: Belt of Battle Bracers of the Entangling Blast Circlet of Rapid Casting Collar of Healing$ Counterstrike Bracers Crystal Mask of Mindarmor Heartseeking Amulet Hellcat Gauntlets Riding Boots$ Ring of Greater Counterspells Ring of Spell-Battle Ring of Vanishing Third Eye Dampening Third Eye Freedom Vampiric Torc Vest of the Master Evoker Tools: Psychoactive Skin (of the Celestial) Psychoactive Skin (of Celestial Embrace) Psychoactive Skin (of Ectoplasmic Armor) Psychoactive Skin (of the Fiend) Psychoactive Skin (of Fiendish Embrace) Psychoactive Skin (of Iron) Psychoactive Skin (of Power Damping) Rod of Viscid Globs Summoner's Totem$ Talisman of Undead Mastery$ Talisman of Undying Fortitude Barbs of Retribution (Instruments of the Blood Gift) Horn of Resiliance (Regalia of the Hero) $This item is only on this list because it potentially gives a significant benefit to a PC who is probably already twinky Borderline These items are either a little too handy (every adventurer will want one), too cheap, too easy to exploit, just a little too powerful for comfort, or some combination of the above. I think they could be put on an AR as a major reward provided the access is carefully controlled to avoid abuse. Armor Properties: Deathward Blurring Mindarmor Speed Armor Augment Crystals: Crystal of Mind Cloaking Restful Crystal Weapon Properties: Bloodstone Fiercebane Sacred Stunning Surge Stygian Specific Weapons: Dwarf Crusher Manticore Greatsword+ Rogue Blade* Weapon Augment Crystals: Crystal of Arcane Steel$ Crystal of Energy Assault (lesser) Crystal of Life Drinking Fiendslayer Crystal Truedeath Crystal Clothing Anklet of Translocation Circlet of Mages+ Deathguardian Bracers$ Healing Belt Mesmerist's Gloves Ring of Mystic Defiance+ Ring of Mystic Fire+ Ring of Mystic Lightning+ Robe of Mysterious Conjuration Scarab of Invulnerability Scout's Headband Third Eye Surge Veil of Allure$ Tools: Diamondskin Decanter Dove's Harp* Eternal Wand (depending upon spell) Horn of Plenty Metamagic Rod (Sculpting) Orb of Mental Renewal Psychoactive Skin (of the Defender) Quiver of Energy Rod of Bodily Restoration Rod of Sure Striking Sets: Gauntlet's of Destruction (Armor of the Watching Master) Crown of Flames (Regalia of the Phoenix) Veil of Storms+ (Seven Veils) *This item would be one category higher except that the character who benefits from it is unlikely to be twinky +This item is only borderline at lower levels $This item is only on the list because it potentially gives a significant benefit to a PC who is probably already twinky Just Right These items are particularly useful and/or just plain cool but balanced enough. In other words, they are great choices for an AR. Armor Properties: Blueshine Axeblock Twilight Armor Augment Crystals: Several of these are worth considering Weapon Properties: Body Feeder Divine Wrath Eager Enervating Ghost Strike Hideaway Psychokinetic Shadowstrike* Shielding* Specific Weapons: Bow of Songs* Weapon Augment Crystals: Several of these are worth considering Clothing: Armband of Maximized Healing Deathstrike Bracers* Desperation Chain Devastation Gauntlets Dimension Stride Boots Gauntlet of Infinite Blades Gloves of Fortunate Striking Gloves of the Titan's Grip Goggles of Draconic Vision Headband of Conscious Effort Helm of Glorious Recovery Helm of Heroes Hexbands Ki Straps Moonstone Mask Rapidstrike Bracers Reliquary Holy Symbol Repelling Gauntlets Ring of Adamantine Touch Ring of the Darkhidden Ring of Mystic Healing Third Eye Improvisation Tools: Blessed Bandage Eternal Wand (depending upon spell) Metamagic Rods (all but Sculpting) Psychoactive Skin (of the Chameleon) Psychoactive Skin (of Nimbleness) Runestaffs (any) Sacred Scabbard Wand Bracelet Wilding Clasp Sets: Shield of Vigor (Five Virtues) Bracers of Blinding Strike (Fleet Warrior's Array) *This item would be one category higher except that the character who benefits from it is unlikely to be twinky Cool Things to Give to Bad Guys Weapon Properties: Necrotic Focus Clothing: Impervious Vestment Repelling Gauntlets Ring of the Darkhidden Shirt of the Leech Tabard of the Disembodied Tools: Magic Siphon
JJeff 07-04-07, 11:24 PM	Things I have already seen access to: Mithralmist Shirt Armor Property - Deathward Don't know about the rest, but these accesses was given pre- MIC
bitznarf 07-04-07, 11:44 PM	Probably most of the stuff on this list (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=657626) might be considered overpowered. Haven't really looked at it in detail, but there are very fews things that I actually don't want in the campaign.
copper_wyrmling 07-05-07, 12:18 AM	Hmmm, I don't see either runestaffs or the sacred scabbard on any of your lists. How would you gauge them? My sorcerer would adore runestaff access, and my dervish is planning to buy his sacred scabbard (pre-MIC access) just as soon as we start using the lower price given in the MIC.
Drezden 07-05-07, 10:58 AM	I've actually now seen the MiC version of the Sacred Scabbard available on an AR - very sweet - much better than the older version. Daren Hmmm, I don't see either runestaffs or the sacred scabbard on any of your lists. How would you gauge them? My sorcerer would adore runestaff access, and my dervish is planning to buy his sacred scabbard (pre-MIC access) just as soon as we start using the lower price given in the MIC.
amnuxoll 07-05-07, 11:29 AM	Hmmm, I don't see either runestaffs or the sacred scabbard on any of your lists. How would you gauge them? My sorcerer would adore runestaff access, and my dervish is planning to buy his sacred scabbard (pre-MIC access) just as soon as we start using the lower price given in the MIC. I actually have Runestaffs on the "Just Right" list. I consider them an analog to pearls of power for wizards. As for sacred scabbard, the swift action activation definitely makes it a cool item. I'd put it on the Just Right list as well. It's powerful and may do some broken things in the hands of a Dervish but otherwise not overpowered.
Timlagor 07-05-07, 12:04 PM	Sacred Scabbard is overpowered. Your list would be a lot easier to read if there were breaks between the various sections. (you might also bold the category titles)
Mattastrophic 07-05-07, 12:22 PM	As for sacred scabbard, the swift action activation definitely makes it a cool item. I'd put it on the Just Right list as well. It's powerful and may do some broken things in the hands of a Dervish but otherwise not overpowered. Don't forget that Bless Weapon does not stack with Keen, Improved Critical, etc. So no auto-confirming scimitar swings on a 15. -Matt
Timlagor 07-05-07, 12:31 PM	It doesn't stack with Keen. It most certainly *does* work in conjunction with Improved Critical.
Mattastrophic 07-05-07, 01:22 PM	It doesn't stack with Keen. It most certainly *does* work in conjunction with Improved Critical. *looks up Bless Weapon* *sees the 'magical effect' bit* Holy crap! -Matt
CdrcJsn 07-05-07, 04:07 PM	Keep in mind that the Developers intentionally made some of these items more powerful than DMG equivalents. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a I'm not saying that there aren't some really over the top items in the MIC, but you have to take into account the fact that certain items were underpowered to begin with and some of the MIC items seem broken in comparison.
copper_wyrmling 07-05-07, 08:48 PM	*looks up Bless Weapon* *sees the 'magical effect' bit* Holy crap! -Matt That would be why my falchion-wielding dervish whose next feat is Improved Critical would like one ;) And yay, runestaffs :) I really do hope they start to make it into modules soon.
magebeast 07-06-07, 12:06 AM	That would be why my falchion-wielding dervish whose next feat is Improved Critical would like one ;) And yay, runestaffs :) I really do hope they start to make it into modules soon. Me too. My sorcerer should hit be 9 coming out of Red Hand in the next month or so, and I'd love to see some late year 7s or early year 8s handing out some tasty runestaff action. Preferably some boom staves that'll make picking out spells a bit easier.
amnuxoll 07-06-07, 02:05 PM	Sacred Scabbard is overpowered. Maybe. But I find your argument...lacking. Can you elaborate?
Timlagor 07-06-07, 05:37 PM	:D [I don't think I have anything terribly new to say on this but since you asked...] Bless Weapon is a very powerful effect*. Allowing it as a swift action makes the opportunity cost for a melee character very low (though it does mean having the weapon sheathed at the beginning of the fight). Putting it in an item available to any classes (subject to being Good) means it can be used by people without the Multiple Attribute requirements of a Paladin. The Scabbard is very cheap for the power of the effect: presumably under the false reasoning that limitting it by alignment justifies a reduction but perhaps just because it's a paladin spell. There is really no reason for any Good weapon-user not to get one if they have access. * TWO powerful effects really: aligned weapon for DR and the auto-crits.
ezreal2001 07-07-07, 06:59 AM	That would be why my falchion-wielding dervish whose next feat is Improved Critical would like one ;) And yay, runestaffs :) I really do hope they start to make it into modules soon. Yup my Rogue is looking forward to getting one for his +1 Pit Forged cold iron greatsword.
Southernskies 07-07-07, 08:21 AM	Bless Weapon is a very powerful effect*. Allowing it as a swift action makes the opportunity cost for a melee character very low (though it does mean having the weapon sheathed at the beginning of the fight). * TWO powerful effects really: aligned weapon for DR and the auto-crits. I don't have MIC, but that's a very powerful change from the CD version (which takes a standard action).
amnuxoll 07-07-07, 09:33 AM	Your list would be a lot easier to read if there were breaks between the various sections. (you might also bold the category titles) It's probably too little, too late but I've gone in and formatted the list. FWIW, the list was formatted to begin with but the website was stripping out all my white space. :AMN:
clannagh 07-08-07, 10:50 PM	Question Does the general LGCS ruling about using latest books mean that the MIC version of an item automatically replaces the exisiting item of the same name referred to on the favor/access from the AR ?
cycloptic_squirrel 07-08-07, 11:18 PM	Question Does the general LGCS ruling about using latest books mean that the MIC version of an item automatically replaces the exisiting item of the same name referred to on the favor/access from the AR ? from what I understand, use the old version for now, unless the AR specifically mentions the MIC; I get the impression that a conversion sheet is forthcoming at some point (February with the next LGCS perhaps) and at that point items will convert
clannagh 07-09-07, 12:51 AM	from what I understand, use the old version for now, unless the AR specifically mentions the MIC; I get the impression that a conversion sheet is forthcoming at some point (February with the next LGCS perhaps) and at that point items will convert for some items that could be a serious worry EXAMPLE ... putting the PHBII version of Brutal Surge (to which I have access) on a weapon that is already +4 costs 2000 gc under PHB II rules .. however the MIC version of brutal surge is a +1 enhancement which would take the same weapon to +5 equivalent, meaning the converted version would cost an extra (50,000 - 32000 + 2000) = 16000 gc different .
cycloptic_squirrel 07-09-07, 02:13 AM	for some items that could be a serious worry EXAMPLE ... putting the PHBII version of Brutal Surge (to which I have access) on a weapon that is already +4 costs 2000 gc under PHB II rules .. however the MIC version of brutal surge is a +1 enhancement which would take the same weapon to +5 equivalent, meaning the converted version would cost an extra (50,000 - 32000 + 2000) = 16000 gc different . I'm pretty sure you'll have to pay the difference (or get a refund) if the items are different prices, and I'd think there will be a buyback option, though I'm not sure I'd rely heavily on that
ezreal2001 07-09-07, 04:52 AM	I'm pretty sure you'll have to pay the difference (or get a refund) if the items are different prices, and I'd think there will be a buyback option, though I'm not sure I'd rely heavily on that Well I'll second that since every time there's been a coversion, one of the steps has been updating the item value, and character wealth accordingly. And there's allways been a buy back.
clannagh 07-10-07, 07:26 PM	backtracking a bit to earlier in the thread would a vorpal sword in a sacred scabbard auto-kill on a 20 with no save ???
Mattastrophic 07-10-07, 07:33 PM	backtracking a bit to earlier in the thread would a vorpal sword in a sacred scabbard auto-kill on a 20 with no save ??? Nope, because Bless Weapon doesn't stack with Vorpal. It's a "magical effect related to critical hits." -Matt
lseelba 07-14-07, 12:51 AM	Where is that Huge Scorpion Item I've been hearing so much about :D (I just bought the MIC and I'm still thumbing through it)
King Kashue 07-14-07, 01:20 AM	Where is that Huge Scorpion Item I've been hearing so much about :D (I just bought the MIC and I'm still thumbing through it) The Amber Amulet of Vermin. Crazy Broken :D 700g, summons a CR7 creature 1/day. A fiendish huge scorpion requires a Summon Monster VII. If you count the fiendish template as worth one spell level (which the PHB does if you look at the beasts on summon monster vs. summon nature's ally), then the normal Huge Scorpion is worth a 6th level spell. A 6th level spell scroll, 1 use and gone, is worth 1650g. An item that gives you that equivalent every single day, over and over again, is 700g. And the critter is still formidable at higher APLs, it's huge, has improved grab and a +21 grapple check. General consensus at Origins (looking at the other items) was that it's a typo and that they meant to make it a large scorpion, not a huge one.
Hariman 07-14-07, 01:39 AM	The Amber Amulet of Vermin. Crazy Broken :D 700g, summons a CR7 creature 1/day. A fiendish huge scorpion requires a Summon Monster VII. If you count the fiendish template as worth one spell level (which the PHB does if you look at the beasts on summon monster vs. summon nature's ally), then the normal Huge Scorpion is worth a 6th level spell. A 6th level spell scroll, 1 use and gone, is worth 1650g. An item that gives you that equivalent every single day, over and over again, is 700g. And the critter is still formidable at higher APLs, it's huge, has improved grab and a +21 grapple check. General consensus at Origins (looking at the other items) was that it's a typo and that they meant to make it a large scorpion, not a huge one. Or maybe it was supposed to be 7,000 GP.
lseelba 07-14-07, 01:55 AM	The Amber Amulet of Vermin. Crazy Broken :D (SNIP) Thanks. I just cracked open my MIC, and looked at the item. Here is the relevant table, with the CR of th summoned monster added by me: Giant Bee, Cost 500, CR 1 Giant Queen Ant, Cost 700, CR 2 Giant Praying Mantis, Cost 700, CR 3 Huge Monstrous Centipede, Cost 700, CR 2 Huge Monstrous Scorpion, Cost 700, CR 7 Large Monstrous Spider, Cost 700, CR 2 Giant Wasp, Cost 800, CR 3 Giant Stag Beetle, Cost 1,200, CR 4 This is so obviously a typo, that I feel bad for any DM who allowed the CR 7 monster at Origins. Also, if WotC does not errata this...then I'll be speechless.
King Kashue 07-14-07, 02:05 AM	Or maybe it was supposed to be 7,000 GP. Unlikely, as it's one of many items in a "vermin summoning" category, which are all 500-1200g This is so obviously a typo, that I feel bad for any DM who allowed the CR 7 monster at Origins. Well, that would be all of them, since they had no grounds to not allow them. :D
Shaudius 07-14-07, 12:54 PM	Well, that would be all of them, since they had no grounds to not allow them. :D Having judged Undermountain, 9 times at Origins, it wasn't as big of a problem as I thought it would be. Only a few tables had them. Their existence for some reason wasn't well known before Origins, and presumably people just passed by them since there's on a table so their obvious power is overlooked. The few tables that did have them didn't have great occasion to use them, and didn't do the, "every character has three" thing that I expected to happen. The combats in the first part weren't all that hard, so their use would have been pretty much overkill for most parties. The only time they did come in handy was for parties that used them in the only seriously hard encounter in my opinion, and they still ended up getting beaten pretty hard. My table which had at least five-six(three from me alone) had everyone die but one player in the encounter, even using them(because of the setup of the encounter). I know it will be released for homeplay, so I hope thats not to spoilery. I did hear that someone brought seven of them to a Xen'drik mod. I have heard from a couple of the higher ups in Xen'drik, however, when I brought its existence to their attention, that the item will be banned in that campaign. Parts two-four of Undermountain will be harder I'm sure, so they will be more useful, but I hope they will be banned by then(even though I'm not judging it and am just playing it). I know that this is the LG forum, but I do feel this information useful to share because both the topic of the thread, and because a lot of LG players will be playing Undermountain to obtain reward for their LG characters. Shawn
lseelba 07-14-07, 01:11 PM	(snip) I did hear that someone brought seven of them to a Xen'drik mod. I have heard from a couple of the higher ups in Xen'drik, however, when I brought its existence to their attention, that the item will be banned in that campaign. Parts two-four of Undermountain will be harder I'm sure, so they will be more useful, but I hope they will be banned by then(even though I'm not judging it and am just playing it). I know that this is the LG forum, but I do feel this information useful to share because both the topic of the thread, and because a lot of LG players will be playing Undermountain to obtain reward for their LG characters. Shawn They don't need to be banned. They need to be errata'ed. But in the short term I guess a ban is the only solution. The reason (IMHO) that judges should have not allowed the item is that it is clearly an errata. Summoning a CR 7 monster is completely out of place in that chart I just posted. It is like if someone had a source book that had a level 9 scroll in a table with a bunch of level 2 scrolls, but they were all priced the same. Most people could immediately recognize the disparity and realize that it's a typo.
Herrbard 07-14-07, 01:42 PM	It is like if someone had a source book that had a level 9 scroll in a table with a bunch of level 2 scrolls, but they were all priced the same. Most people could immediately recognize the disparity and realize that it's a typo. While I agree that we can recognize it, and it is grossly overpowered, and it is probably a typo, until something official is put out we can't do anything about it. (Which I hate, since I'm judging nine slots of Undermountain at GenCon). :weep:
King Kashue 07-14-07, 03:20 PM	Having judged Undermountain, 9 times at Origins, it wasn't as big of a problem as I thought it would be. Only a few tables had them. Their existence for some reason wasn't well known before Origins, and presumably people just passed by them since there's on a table so their obvious power is overlooked. The few tables that did have them didn't have great occasion to use them, and didn't do the, "every character has three" thing that I expected to happen. The combats in the first part weren't all that hard, so their use would have been pretty much overkill for most parties. The only time they did come in handy was for parties that used them in the only seriously hard encounter in my opinion, and they still ended up getting beaten pretty hard. My table which had at least five-six(three from me alone) had everyone die but one player in the encounter, even using them(because of the setup of the encounter). I know it will be released for homeplay, so I hope thats not to spoilery. I did hear that someone brought seven of them to a Xen'drik mod. I have heard from a couple of the higher ups in Xen'drik, however, when I brought its existence to their attention, that the item will be banned in that campaign. Parts two-four of Undermountain will be harder I'm sure, so they will be more useful, but I hope they will be banned by then(even though I'm not judging it and am just playing it). I know that this is the LG forum, but I do feel this information useful to share because both the topic of the thread, and because a lot of LG players will be playing Undermountain to obtain reward for their LG characters. Shawn We were one of the tables you judged that had them :D And if we had used them properly in the "giant mistake fight", we would likely have beaten it (Imo).
clannagh 07-16-07, 01:38 AM	:D [I don't think I have anything terribly new to say on this but since you asked...] Bless Weapon is a very powerful effect*. Allowing it as a swift action makes the opportunity cost for a melee character very low (though it does mean having the weapon sheathed at the beginning of the fight). Putting it in an item available to any classes (subject to being Good) means it can be used by people without the Multiple Attribute requirements of a Paladin. The Scabbard is very cheap for the power of the effect: presumably under the false reasoning that limitting it by alignment justifies a reduction but perhaps just because it's a paladin spell. There is really no reason for any Good weapon-user not to get one if they have access. * TWO powerful effects really: aligned weapon for DR and the auto-crits. The autocrit against evil is pretty impressive ... though the oil of bless weapon is only 100gc so its not hugely overpowered for its cost. It would take quie a lot of mods before you ended up ahead. One thing I never quite worked out is whether bless weapon allows a character with telling blow to auto-sneak crittable critters on a crit threat .. it seems to me it should.
boolean 07-16-07, 03:55 AM	General consensus at Origins (looking at the other items) was that it's a typo and that they meant to make it a large scorpion, not a huge one. The item previously appeared in Magic of Faerun (a 3.0 book, if it matters). In the MoF version the table is mostly the same, except the Scorpion is Large, and text of the previous one describes it as a single-use item. The change from single-use to 1/day is obviously a deliberate change. It seems likely that changing the Large Monstrous Scorpion into a Huge Monstrous Scorpion is a typo.
pedr 07-16-07, 11:01 AM	If I recall the Undermountain character creation guidelines correctly, there's a sentence which essentially says "The GM is the final authority in this campaign." Having read this thread and the one in the XE forum, I'd be tempted to disallow use of the scorpion amulet. If the player wanted to take it up with the Senior GM that would be his right, and I'd fully acknowledge that I was making a difficult-to-support ruling but I'd stand by it until told to rule otherwise by the Senior GM. I am usually a stickler for running the rules as written, as I understand them, but - particularly in the context of XE where the GM is expected/permitted to ensure that the players are challenged (neither overwhelmed or presented with a cakewalk) and Undermountain where there is very little campaign continuity to worry about - in this case I'd be happy to depart from my usual technique.