Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeimosGandymede 09-15-06, 06:18 PM	I have a question concerning Prestige Classes (obviously). Given that you meet all requirements of the Prestige Class, when exactly can you gain levels in the class? To clarify: Say I have a 6th Level Wizard. I would like them to become a Loremaster. I have the four necessary feats, and I have the ability to cast 3rd level spells, including Divination spells of that level. When I hit 7th level, I put two skill points into the appropriate Knowledge: Whatever skills so that I have two Knowledge: Whatever skills with 10 ranks in them. May I immediately take the level of Loremaster? Can I be a 6 Wizard/1 Loremaster since while leveling, I fill in the requirements, or must I wait another level, and THEN become a 7 Wizard/1 Loremaster? Please show me written documentation to support your answer, so I know where to find it. I know that it says in the DMG that it is the latter, but I thought I read/heard somewhere, that in Living Greyhawk, it was the prior. Any help would be appreciated! -MW-
Arvagor 09-15-06, 06:34 PM	DMG, page 176: "If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step [i.e., choosing a class], that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class." You don't get skill points until you determine what class you're going to take, so in your example, you couldn't have put points in Knowledge (whatever) unless you had already chosen a class. You couldn't have chosen Loremaster, because you didn't qualify for the class (by not having 10 ranks in two K skills) There is nothing in the LGCS that overrides this.
chesspiece 09-15-06, 10:50 PM	I participated in a discussion some time ago about the order with respect to Feat prereq's. The concensus was that the order in the PHB wasn't relevant. Otherwise, a Wiz3 couldn't take Craft Wonderous Items because gaining spellcasting comes after choosing the feat. I've never heard of anyone contradicting the PHB order / DMG ruling with respect to Prestige Classes though. When you think about it, you can't get skill point until after you've chosen your new class. By which time, you can't unselect it. What bugs me about Prestige Classes is the contradiction between the DMG and =some= of the Complete books regarding what happens if you temporarily fail to meet your Prestige Class prereq's. DMG says that prereq's only matter when you take the Prestige Class. At least 2 Complete books say you loose your Prestige Class abilities until you meet the prereq's again. I still haven't heard if there's an official LG ruling for this. It's a pretty significant rule to have table variation on.
Arvagor 09-15-06, 11:20 PM	I participated in a discussion some time ago about the order with respect to Feat prereq's. The concensus was that the order in the PHB wasn't relevant.I wouldn't necessarily disagree. Personally, I've always interpreted it as, 1) Choose a class, 2) Get all the other stuff for levelling. Otherwise, a Wiz3 couldn't take Craft Wonderous Items because gaining spellcasting comes after choosing the feat.That's one way to interpret the text; the other is that it's saying you only pick your spells at that point (Step "8"), but that you're actually a 3rd level caster the moment you decide on "Wizard 3". The fact remains that you still cannot have 10 ranks in a skill until you have reached at least 7th level and chosen your class for that level (in regards to the OP's question)...
Howie23 09-16-06, 01:21 AM	I participated in a discussion some time ago about the order with respect to Feat prereq's. The concensus was that the order in the PHB wasn't relevant. The Instant FAQ on page 14 of the LGCS specifically makes following the PHB order relevant. David
Iswald 09-16-06, 04:21 AM	If you're looking only at feats, the order doesn't matter so much. On page 87 of the PHB in the prerequisites section, it says, "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite." So, a fighter type could take a level of rogue at 9th level and still take staggering strike as their 9th level feat even though looking at the level advancement rules on pages 58 and 59 would indicate otherwise (select a feat at step 7 and then gain class features at step 9, which would be the sneak attack ability required for staggering strike). For prestige classes, you have to meet all the requirements before you can even begin the first step, selecting a class.
celexter 09-26-06, 12:27 AM	I wouldn't necessarily disagree. Personally, I've always interpreted it as, 1) Choose a class, 2) Get all the other stuff for levelling. That's one way to interpret the text; the other is that it's saying you only pick your spells at that point (Step "8"), but that you're actually a 3rd level caster the moment you decide on "Wizard 3". The fact remains that you still cannot have 10 ranks in a skill until you have reached at least 7th level and chosen your class for that level (in regards to the OP's question)... Yes. I agree with you. This is the most logical system to me.