radiant servant and domain spontaneity healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

radiant servant and domain spontaneity healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gallaway
04-26-07, 07:19 PM Simple question.

Does Domain Spontaniety Healing let a Radiant Servant maximise all heals or not ?
JJeff
04-26-07, 09:02 PM No. Only healing spells cast from your Domain spell SLOT is maximised. At least that's what I heard and read so far.
Gallaway
04-27-07, 02:33 AM No. Only healing spells cast from your Domain spell SLOT is maximised. At least that's what I heard and read so far.

Spontaneously casting a healing spell like a normal cleric certianly does not get maximised. That is very clear.

Where it gets interesting is the Radiant servant descriptions says the maximised healing kicks in when the Radiant Servant "casts a domain spell" and the feat says that by burning a turn attempt "you may now convert prepared divine spells into any spell from that domain".

Not that I have a radiant servant myself, I just found the possibility interesting.
copper_wyrmling
04-27-07, 02:44 AM There are three major positions, and it's pretty much purely a matter of GM interpretation:

(1) A "domain spell" means "any spell that appears on the domain list", so whenever a Radiant Servant casts a spell that appears on the Healing domain spell list, it's automatically empowered / maximized.

(2) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. However, Domain Spontaneity lets you cast additional "spells from that domain", so these spells are domain spells for all intents and purposes and the benefits also apply to those spells.

(3) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. Domain Spontaneity does not grant you extra "domain spells", it merely lets you spontaneously cast spells drawn from your domain spell list (i.e. it expands the range of spells that you can spontaneously cast beyond cures / inflicts).

My personal ruling is (3). Expect table variation.
Timlagor
04-27-07, 06:10 AM There is nothing clear about this one at all.

I have read all the rules very carefully (especially the two seperate references to Domain Spells in the Cleric description) and rule that everything on the Healing Domain gets teh effect all the time irrespective of how the Cleric casts it.

This is a case of 100% table variation.

The only thing that is unlikely to much any table variation is using Pearls of Power (GMs who don't count that will be few and far between but at least one does exist -unless he's changed his mind).
Mommy was an Orc
04-27-07, 08:39 AM (3) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. Domain Spontaneity does not grant you extra "domain spells", it merely lets you spontaneously cast spells drawn from your domain spell list (i.e. it expands the range of spells that you can spontaneously cast beyond cures / inflicts).

My personal ruling is (3). Expect table variation.

This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling.
pedr
04-27-07, 10:49 AM To be honest (3) is how I have imagined it working. The Empower ability is pretty powerful even with this approach, so I didn't really consider any broader one.

I must remember to play my RSoP at more tables DM'd by timlagor, now I know his more liberal take on it!
JamesMaissen
04-27-07, 02:36 PM This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling.

A good number of judges will tend to rule based on perception.

The Radiant Servant of Cheese (as it's been called) has the perception of being overpowered already, mainly due to it's 1st level granted ability. That it also gives other things (domains, martial weapons) just compounds matters.

The knee jerk response will be against the player in this regard, whatever the merits for or against.

Personally I don't think it should apply to all healing spells, else why use the word domain with 'domain spell'? I certainly think it applies to domain slots even after they are pearled back as they are still domain slots and could not be spontaneously converted for example. As to domain spontaniety I think it's truely grey.

Given the nature of LG and lack of a place to get decidable rules on it, I'd err on the side of the player. I think when it's that unclear that a benefit of the doubt should weigh in here.

-James
Mommy was an Orc
04-27-07, 02:56 PM Personally I don't think it should apply to all healing spells, else why use the word domain with 'domain spell'? I certainly think it applies to domain slots even after they are pearled back as they are still domain slots and could not be spontaneously converted for example. As to domain spontaniety I think it's truely grey.

I don't actually think of it being that unclear - Domain Spell is a specific term and Domain Spontaneity doesn't use it.
_metz_
04-28-07, 03:06 AM Domain Spontaneity allows you to convert prepared spells to the same spells in your domain lists.

At NO point does it say that these are 'domain spells' or that you are converting prepared spells into extra domain slots. Hence Imo wouldn't work.

And if it did every radiant cheeseweasal would have the feat, for unlimited maximised healing.

I don't see any DM I know allowing this.
ShinAkuma2
04-29-07, 10:18 PM And if it did every radiant cheeseweasal would have the feat, for unlimited maximised healing.

Well, it IS limited by your Wis mod, so even if that's many times per day, it's not going to be as many times as you could conceivably Cure.

But still.
dkay807
04-29-07, 10:40 PM I don't actually think of it being that unclear - Domain Spell is a specific term and Domain Spontaneity doesn't use it.

Before I read this discussion, I had no idea that there was even debate about it not working... I play with a 15th level RSOP who uses Domain Spontaneity to Maximize all of his Cure spells and have never seen a judge rule against it.

I suppose it's all ETV...
Drezden
04-29-07, 11:25 PM I also believe this is the correct interpretation. Wait a minute, if I agree with both you, Andy, and Copper (mainly you), the end of the world is near. :)

Daren

This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling.
Japangirl
04-30-07, 02:07 AM I am waffling between 2 and 3. I'd probably go with 2 myself, but that is just me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gallaway 04-26-07, 07:19 PM	Simple question. Does Domain Spontaniety Healing let a Radiant Servant maximise all heals or not ?
JJeff 04-26-07, 09:02 PM	No. Only healing spells cast from your Domain spell SLOT is maximised. At least that's what I heard and read so far.
Gallaway 04-27-07, 02:33 AM	No. Only healing spells cast from your Domain spell SLOT is maximised. At least that's what I heard and read so far. Spontaneously casting a healing spell like a normal cleric certianly does not get maximised. That is very clear. Where it gets interesting is the Radiant servant descriptions says the maximised healing kicks in when the Radiant Servant "casts a domain spell" and the feat says that by burning a turn attempt "you may now convert prepared divine spells into any spell from that domain". Not that I have a radiant servant myself, I just found the possibility interesting.
copper_wyrmling 04-27-07, 02:44 AM	There are three major positions, and it's pretty much purely a matter of GM interpretation: (1) A "domain spell" means "any spell that appears on the domain list", so whenever a Radiant Servant casts a spell that appears on the Healing domain spell list, it's automatically empowered / maximized. (2) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. However, Domain Spontaneity lets you cast additional "spells from that domain", so these spells are domain spells for all intents and purposes and the benefits also apply to those spells. (3) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. Domain Spontaneity does not grant you extra "domain spells", it merely lets you spontaneously cast spells drawn from your domain spell list (i.e. it expands the range of spells that you can spontaneously cast beyond cures / inflicts). My personal ruling is (3). Expect table variation.
Timlagor 04-27-07, 06:10 AM	There is nothing clear about this one at all. I have read all the rules very carefully (especially the two seperate references to Domain Spells in the Cleric description) and rule that everything on the Healing Domain gets teh effect all the time irrespective of how the Cleric casts it. This is a case of 100% table variation. The only thing that is unlikely to much any table variation is using Pearls of Power (GMs who don't count that will be few and far between but at least one does exist -unless he's changed his mind).
Mommy was an Orc 04-27-07, 08:39 AM	(3) A "domain spell" means "a spell prepared in your domain slot", so a Radiant Servant only gets the empower / maximize benefit on Healing-domain spells cast from their domain slot. Domain Spontaneity does not grant you extra "domain spells", it merely lets you spontaneously cast spells drawn from your domain spell list (i.e. it expands the range of spells that you can spontaneously cast beyond cures / inflicts). My personal ruling is (3). Expect table variation. This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling.
pedr 04-27-07, 10:49 AM	To be honest (3) is how I have imagined it working. The Empower ability is pretty powerful even with this approach, so I didn't really consider any broader one. I must remember to play my RSoP at more tables DM'd by timlagor, now I know his more liberal take on it!
JamesMaissen 04-27-07, 02:36 PM	This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling. A good number of judges will tend to rule based on perception. The Radiant Servant of Cheese (as it's been called) has the perception of being overpowered already, mainly due to it's 1st level granted ability. That it also gives other things (domains, martial weapons) just compounds matters. The knee jerk response will be against the player in this regard, whatever the merits for or against. Personally I don't think it should apply to all healing spells, else why use the word domain with 'domain spell'? I certainly think it applies to domain slots even after they are pearled back as they are still domain slots and could not be spontaneously converted for example. As to domain spontaniety I think it's truely grey. Given the nature of LG and lack of a place to get decidable rules on it, I'd err on the side of the player. I think when it's that unclear that a benefit of the doubt should weigh in here. -James
Mommy was an Orc 04-27-07, 02:56 PM	Personally I don't think it should apply to all healing spells, else why use the word domain with 'domain spell'? I certainly think it applies to domain slots even after they are pearled back as they are still domain slots and could not be spontaneously converted for example. As to domain spontaniety I think it's truely grey. I don't actually think of it being that unclear - Domain Spell is a specific term and Domain Spontaneity doesn't use it.
_metz_ 04-28-07, 03:06 AM	Domain Spontaneity allows you to convert prepared spells to the same spells in your domain lists. At NO point does it say that these are 'domain spells' or that you are converting prepared spells into extra domain slots. Hence Imo wouldn't work. And if it did every radiant cheeseweasal would have the feat, for unlimited maximised healing. I don't see any DM I know allowing this.
ShinAkuma2 04-29-07, 10:18 PM	And if it did every radiant cheeseweasal would have the feat, for unlimited maximised healing. Well, it IS limited by your Wis mod, so even if that's many times per day, it's not going to be as many times as you could conceivably Cure. But still.
dkay807 04-29-07, 10:40 PM	I don't actually think of it being that unclear - Domain Spell is a specific term and Domain Spontaneity doesn't use it. Before I read this discussion, I had no idea that there was even debate about it not working... I play with a 15th level RSOP who uses Domain Spontaneity to Maximize all of his Cure spells and have never seen a judge rule against it. I suppose it's all ETV...
Drezden 04-29-07, 11:25 PM	I also believe this is the correct interpretation. Wait a minute, if I agree with both you, Andy, and Copper (mainly you), the end of the world is near. :) Daren This is my take on it as well. Warning: Copper and I are agreeing about this - expect it to be a common ruling.
Japangirl 04-30-07, 02:07 AM	I am waffling between 2 and 3. I'd probably go with 2 myself, but that is just me.