Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Landale 04-02-07, 08:13 PM	Are there any favored enemies that are off limits? Somebody mentioned that Favored Enemy (Human) is not allowed in LG. My character is human, and there is nothing preventing him from taking it according to the Favored Enemy description of the 3.5 PHB (I know about the 3.0 stipulation that you had to be evil to take your own race as a FE, but 3.5 does not have that restriction, nor does it have errata). Can anybody confirm that FE:Human is allowed? Thanks!
Mommy was an Orc 04-02-07, 08:18 PM	Are there any favored enemies that are off limits? Somebody mentioned that Favored Enemy (Human) is not allowed in LG. My character is human, and there is nothing preventing him from taking it according to the Favored Enemy description of the 3.5 PHB (I know about the 3.0 stipulation that you had to be evil to take your own race as a FE, but 3.5 does not have that restriction, nor does it have errata). Can anybody confirm that FE:Human is allowed? Thanks! It is allowed - core rule option. They're probably remembering as being evil. A Human Sheriff in a town plagued by human bandits has perfectly good justification for Favored Enemy(Human)
Landale 04-02-07, 08:26 PM	Ok cool. I thought it was kind of silly to restrict it, seeing as how most of the "masterminds" behind bad guy operations are usually human. I have FE:Human at +4, it's so much fun when I crit them :D
Redfist 04-02-07, 08:49 PM	It is legal. Some people would caution you that there could be roleplaying consequences (I'm not one of those, but I've heard the perspective before).
Southernskies 04-02-07, 09:12 PM	The main thing to remember is that the "taking your own race as a FE is evil" is a D&D3.0 rule. It was removed from the 3.5 rule set. Many players (and DMs) often mix the two rule sets up.
cetiken 04-02-07, 09:58 PM	I do love it when people challenge my Rangers choice. I get to point out that most of the clergy of Old Wicked are human (or at least started that way) and they're the ones responsible for summoning the fiends and leading the orcish hordes across my home. Don't let people tell you something is wrong unless they can cite you the rule. And if they do, then admit you were unaware and take appropriate corrective action.
Arvagor 04-02-07, 10:04 PM	Ditto for my asherati ranger; I figured the majority of Rary's forces were/are human, and so that's who he'd be most trained to fight...
Gallaway 04-02-07, 10:06 PM	Don't let people tell you something is wrong unless they can cite you the rule. And if they do, then admit you were unaware and take appropriate corrective action. Be especially wary of people making comments like: "I am absolutely certain of that, no need to look it up and embaress yourself" or "there is a huge thread on the boards and everyone agrees with my interpretation" or "everyone plays it that way" or "all the DM's at (name drop some huge major conventions the rest of the table did not attend) rule it that way" or "I played on a table run by "Britt/Andy Collins/pick your celebrity and they were adamant that this is how it works"
GrahamWills 04-03-07, 02:24 PM	My wood elf monk has favored enemy human. It does not mean he hates them or even views them as more likely to be evil than any other race. They are just the race he has spent most time studying. I do martial arts, and people there definitely have "favored enemies" that they love fighting because they just are better at fighting them than the average person of their level. I consider favored enemy to be no more than that. It is a class of possible opponents that you have studied and know particulalry well how to target. - graham
Mithrus 04-06-07, 01:55 AM	I believe the original source of the confusion is the 3.0 rules. In 3.0, you couldn't pick your own race as a favored enemy. This pretty only affected humans, as very few rangers pick elf, dwarf, etc as favored enemies...This no longer is the case for 3.5, but those who played 3.0 first might not be familiar with the change.
gomeztoo 04-06-07, 04:21 AM	My dragon disciple follower of Aasterinian has favored enemy (dragon). It originally started as a racial bias against chromatic dragons - with the skewed assumption that, as acopper, she had to fight the chromatics in the Dragon War. However, after a 'divinely' insipred event at Hanging Glacier (where she critically failed to hit the dragon), she changed her attitude. It was along process involving lots of self reflection and all that, but she now tries very hard (too hard, at times) to be the voice of all dragons. And she still has favored enemy dragons because, let's be honest, who knows more about giving them the smack than someone that is half one? There are many IC reasons for favored enemy. Cultural bias, personal motivations, focused training, all are valid. Even though the OOC reason seems to be that humans are the most common encountered NPC... :rolleyes:
Madfox11 04-06-07, 07:36 AM	Even though the OOC reason seems to be that humans are the most common encountered NPC... :rolleyes: Which I doubt to be actually true... at least as far as Cores and local regionals/meta-regionals are concerned. I think that undead and outsider (evil) are much more common opponents.
Samwise 04-06-07, 12:06 PM	Which I doubt to be actually true... at least as far as Cores and local regionals/meta-regionals are concerned. I think that undead and outsider (evil) are much more common opponents. And those of the favored enemies of the ranger in the main group I run for. One of the few times I played, he was the reason we survived [Adventure].
Timlagor 04-06-07, 02:32 PM	Samwise: Please remove the spoiler from the above post (granted it's not much of one but :P).
Howie23 04-06-07, 02:47 PM	I believe the original source of the confusion is the 3.0 rules. In 3.0, you couldn't pick your own race as a favored enemy. This pretty only affected humans, as very few rangers pick elf, dwarf, etc as favored enemies...This no longer is the case for 3.5, but those who played 3.0 first might not be familiar with the change. In 3.0, you had to be evil to pick your own race. Yes, this requirement is gone in 3.5. There are those, however, who know that the requirement is gone, but who still view choosing a PC race (whether your own as not) as problematic. It is not merely ignorance of the change. Regardless of whether there is rules support for this, anyone making this choice should be aware of it. My primary is an elven arcane archer with favored enemy human. I have played several sessions judged by a Nyrond Triad who has stated on the Nyrond board that PC race favored enemies are subject to in-game negative consequences when playing Nyrond regional mods. I have never experienced any such negative consequence. However, now that I can retrain it, I will. David
Howie23 04-06-07, 02:53 PM	Which I doubt to be actually true... at least as far as Cores and local regionals/meta-regionals are concerned. I think that undead and outsider (evil) are much more common opponents. Undead may show up frequently, but they are problematic as a choice for rangers for two reasons. The first is that incorporeals are not affected by favored enemy damage. For rangers who select the archer style, there is also the issue that there is table variance about arrows and incorporeal miss. Some view arrows fired from magical bows as non-magical for the purpose of overcoming incorporeal miss chance from non-magical weapons. David
Timlagor 04-06-07, 03:03 PM	Undead may show up frequently, but they are problematic as a choice for rangers for two reasons. The first is that incorporeals are not affected by favored enemy damage. For rangers who select the archer style, there is also the issue that there is table variance about arrows and incorporeal miss. Some view arrows fired from magical bows as non-magical for the purpose of overcoming incorporeal miss chance from non-magical weapons. David Why are incorporeals immune to favoured enemy status? Claiming the arrows are non-magical is just wrong; the solution is education not avoidance.
Maesto 04-06-07, 03:08 PM	I have an archer who is a human ranger with favored enemy elf, just to go in spite of all of the elven archers with favored enemy human. Then she got reincarnated into a male half-elf. After much ridicule from humans, (s)he decided to take favored enemy human. To make matters worse, she put on a belt of gender-bender and failed the fort save. She is rather messed up...
Howie23 04-06-07, 03:17 PM	Why are incorporeals immune to favoured enemy status? "Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks." (DMG p. 295) Claiming the arrows are non-magical is just wrong; the solution is education not avoidance. Why is this "just wrong?" "Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." (DMG, p. 221) This is the same language as Ki Strike: "Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction." (PHB p. 41) Ki Strike does not overcome incorporeal miss chance: Q: Does the monk’s ki strike (magic) only allow her to overcome damage reduction or does it make her natural attacks count as magic weapons for all effects (such as affecting incorporeal opponents)? A: The Player’s Handbook states that ki strike affects the monk’s unarmed strikes “for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction,” but says nothing about any other effects. Thus, the monk’s unarmed attacks aren’t considered magic weapons for any other purpose, including affecting incorporeal foes. (FAQ 3/23/07, p. 17) David
copper_wyrmling 04-06-07, 03:20 PM	I have an archer who is a human ranger with favored enemy elf, just to go in spite of all of the elven archers with favored enemy human. Then she got reincarnated into a male half-elf. After much ridicule from humans, (s)he decided to take favored enemy human. To make matters worse, she put on a belt of gender-bender and failed the fort save. She is rather messed up... You're not going to tell them about getting access to Seeker of the Misty Isle? I fear for the elves on the Misty Isle if Tash ever does manage to find it... (*sigh* I miss playing with Tash. Watching her explain her elf-culling plans to the grey elf representative of the arcane guild... helping her destroy a watch post because they insisted on checking her ears for signs of pointiness (they didn't like elves either)... GMing the scenario where he found a girlfriend (shortly after the first female -> male switch), and then playing on the table where he put on the gender-bender belt and reverted to female... Tash is just about exactly as insane as my copper/red/silver-dragon-descended dream-obsessed wild mage who thinks she's a goddess, because the Madhouse told her so, and tables with both of them are just so much fun.) My ranger has favored enemy: undead. Everywhere he goes, he finds undead hordes. He personally thinks that Pelor is arranging it that way. (First mod was Mad God's Key. Second was Fane of the Drow. Then he moved to Bissel, and played all their Year 5 mods. Lots and lots and LOTS of undead. He's met a Solar of Pelor, learned more than he really wanted to know about the inner workings of the church of Pelor, and recently, begrudgingly, finally gave in to the inevitable and converted to the worship of Pelor.)
Landale 04-06-07, 03:25 PM	My primary is an elven arcane archer with favored enemy human. I have played several sessions judged by a Nyrond Triad who has stated on the Nyrond board that PC race favored enemies are subject to in-game negative consequences when playing Nyrond regional mods. I have never experienced any such negative consequence. However, now that I can retrain it, I will. Huh? That's silly. You shouldn't be penalized because of your favored enemy. A favored enemy does not mean that you necessarily hate that enemy, it just means that you know how to hit them where it hurts, track them better, and you can pick them out of a line up most any day of the week. Essentially, it means that you can hunt them better than other species. There have been several instances where I've met giants and not felt the need to kill them, despite giants being one of my favored enemies. I wouldn't shoot down a storm giant (which I've met a few of) just because I know how to hunt giant-kind. The same holds true with humans. I don't see why I should hate all humans and attempt to attack them, or even be rude to them, just because they're a favored enemy. Not all humans are evil, but heaven help them if they are. It actually makes a LOT of sense, in character, for me to choose FE:Human because a major minority of big bad guys that I have fought have been human. The others have ranged from undead (my last FE), underdark races, elves, the odd evil outsider, goblin-kind, and even plants. A good 30-40% of the mastermind bad guys that I've fought have been human. Favored enemy, plain and simple, should not be taken into account because it means absolutely nothing in terms of how a character feels about a race (and I mean that by just taking it...your character may have a backstory to explain it and thus may actually hate them, but just choosing favored enemy doesn't mean anything). All favored enemy means, as stated previously in this thread, is that you have taken the time to study that particular race and know how to hunt them, it does not mean that you hate them. So why should you see consequences for it?
Howie23 04-06-07, 03:38 PM	Favored enemy, plain and simple, should not be taken into account because it means absolutely nothing in terms of how a character feels about a race. All favored enemy means, as stated previously in this thread, is that you have taken the time to study that particular race and know how to hunt them, it does not mean that you hate them. So why should you see consequences for it? I'm not defending the position, I'm reporting it. I don't agree with it, but I recognize that I have to deal with it. I'm making my choices in response. I was rather annoyed about this in the past, since it wasn't something I could change. Now that I can change it, I'm taking the option to do so and sidestep the issue. FWIW, the position that has been stated is that enemy inherently mandates hatred, and that that hatred is obvious to those it is directed at. I don't agree either with the necessity of hatred, nor bypassing the interaction skills of bluff and sense motive (note that bluff is a favored enemy modified skill). The fact that you can retrain favored enemy severely undermines the position to me. "Ah, yes. Well, you see, I went to an anger management class and no longer hate humans. I had to hate something though, so I now hate magical beasts. Oh that...yes, that cooshie is my animal campanion. Can't stand him." David
gomeztoo 04-06-07, 04:08 PM	Tash is just about exactly as insane as my copper/red/silver-dragon-descended dream-obsessed wild mage who thinks she's a goddess, because the Madhouse told her so Hey! Nesalia didn't know Az was a goddess. Why didn't she tell her so Nes could add her to the 'deities I've met/spoken with/aggravated'. As to laws vs having specific favored enemies... I can imagine how a government would hate it when people train to specifically deal with certain races. Especially when said government consists of said races. - "So you know how to hit humans really wll. Just ebcasue? Riiight... let's have a looooooong talk..." Because most governments don't care much what your motivations are. Not that it is a rule I think is fair/smart/practical, but you can defend it, and it's a regional choice.
Mommy was an Orc 04-06-07, 04:36 PM	- "So you know how to hit humans really wll. Just ebcasue? Riiight... let's have a looooooong talk..." Because most governments don't care much what your motivations are. Not that it is a rule I think is fair/smart/practical, but you can defend it, and it's a regional choice. That's along the lines of having a long talk with Rogues because they know how to hit the vitals of everyone. A Ranger Sheriff who lives in an area with Human bandits is going to have Favored Enemy Human - because it means he's better at spotting them, finding them, tracking them, and doing more damage to them when necessary. It doesn't mean he hates all humans, he just knows how to do his job...
Samwise 04-06-07, 04:44 PM	As to laws vs having specific favored enemies... I can imagine how a government would hate it when people train to specifically deal with certain races. Especially when said government consists of said races. - "So you know how to hit humans really wll. Just ebcasue? Riiight... let's have a looooooong talk..." Because most governments don't care much what your motivations are. Not that it is a rule I think is fair/smart/practical, but you can defend it, and it's a regional choice. Well, I know how to hit humans really well. Does that mean I must have some negative ulterior motivation towards them? And of course I wonder how they'd test for that. Have you stab a member of every race, and whoever needs an extra cure minor wounds is guilty?
Mithreinmaethor 04-06-07, 04:50 PM	Sorry that this a a break from the context of the OP's question. But what would others suggest to take as Favored Enemies from the following list (I can pick 2) Undead Constructs Elementals Oozes
Swiftbrook 04-06-07, 09:45 PM	favored enemy However, now that I can retrain it, I will. The fact that you can retrain favored enemy severely undermines the position to me. I'm not sure where you're getting this. From what I read, retraining a favored enemy is not on the list in PHBII and is therefor not allowed. (unless I missed a FAQ, Errata, etc.) -Swiftbrook
Japangirl 04-06-07, 09:59 PM	I'm not sure where you're getting this. From what I read, retraining a favored enemy is not on the list in PHBII and is therefor not allowed. (unless I missed a FAQ, Errata, etc.) -Swiftbrook I believe, but am not certain, that Favored Enemy counts as a special class feature that can be retrained, like a domain.
Howie23 04-06-07, 10:24 PM	I believe, but am not certain, that Favored Enemy counts as a special class feature that can be retrained, like a domain. Exactly.
copper_wyrmling 04-06-07, 11:57 PM	Hey! Nesalia didn't know Az was a goddess. Why didn't she tell her so Nes could add her to the 'deities I've met/spoken with/aggravated'. Why would Az need to tell her? :confused: It seems like a purely personal thing, unless people decide to start worshipping her. She also hasn't run into Nes since handing over the baby, which happened well before she went to the Madhouse (thankfully) - she looks rather more overtly chaos-infused now. Az actually doesn't think she's a full goddess like Ehlonna or Lydia or Aasterinian yet, she's just working up to it (for example, she has NO idea how the whole "spell granting" thing is supposed to work, although she thinks maybe it's kinda like imbuing items with magic.)
gomeztoo 04-07-07, 07:58 AM	Well, I know how to hit humans really well. Does that mean I must have some negative ulterior motivation towards them? You migth have. Just look at teh world today. people judge men on the color of their skin, the country they come from, the religion they have. Judging people simpyl for being good at something, and assuming bad motives for it, is really not that odd. Indeed, measuring seems to be a bit hard. But maybe you build a rep? And yes, people that cans neak attack must be dangerous. Like people with Power Attack. Or anyone that casts spells... I wouldn't suggest a system like this in my region, though. I'm merely saying that you can find IC rationalization for it. Especially since discrimination (which this, IC, is) is never in any way logical.
gomeztoo 04-07-07, 08:05 AM	Why would Az need to tell her? :confused: Ow, we're sisters, you share that kinda stuff. And Nes knows lots of things about religion. She can probably work out how the spell granting goes... She'd classify Az as a pseudo-hero-goddess-in-training. There's probably an exam you have to pass for it or something. Madhouse sounds fun. Pity it's the wrong metaregion.
Swiftbrook 04-07-07, 08:28 AM	I believe, but am not certain, that Favored Enemy counts as a special class feature that can be retrained, like a domain. Class features from the Player's Handbook that are subject to change in this manner are given on Table 8-2. Table 8-2 Druid or Ranger: Choice of animal companion Ranger: Choice of combat style Favored Enemy is not listed on the table. I think this is stupid, in light that Animal Companion is listed on the table and the PHB clearly states that a Druid or Ranger can change their animal companion with a 24 hour ritural. Just checked, I can't find an errata for PHBII nor is this listed in the latest FAQ. LGCS simply refers to the PBHII. For the record, I was just going to retrain my ranger's Favored Enemy from Human to something else. I rarely use the FE: Human stuff. -Swiftbrook
JamesMaissen 04-07-07, 12:47 PM	Sorry that this a a break from the context of the OP's question. But what would others suggest to take as Favored Enemies from the following list (I can pick 2) Undead Constructs Elementals Oozes It depends what you are looking for the bonuses to be applied to and how large they will likely become. For example, my archer with ranger levels chose Elementals as they tend to have DR/- and every little bit helps. But taking the bonus for tracking, spotting and the like, in addition to the damage could be a factor for you. For my thug I took Giants for roleplaying reasons. I can never seem to recall that I do a little extra damage against them with him (but he hits so hard that +2 dam isn't much anyway). -James
Howie23 04-07-07, 01:55 PM	Favored Enemy is not listed on the table. I think this is stupid, in light that Animal Companion is listed on the table and the PHB clearly states that a Druid or Ranger can change their animal companion with a 24 hour ritural. If no retrain available, then so be it. Thx for the references. David
copper_wyrmling 04-07-07, 02:27 PM	Ow, we're sisters, you share that kinda stuff. And Nes knows lots of things about religion. She can probably work out how the spell granting goes... She'd classify Az as a pseudo-hero-goddess-in-training. There's probably an exam you have to pass for it or something. I meant more that... there's not much reason for her to tell most people about it, because either it's obvious, or it's not - either way, she wouldn't expect telling them to make any difference to their behaviour (Az doesn't really understand the way "normal" people think). But sure, she could tell Nes: "Nessie! I found the most AMAZING house! And it talked to me! It told me I was a goddess! I'm still working on that spell granting thing, though." "Oh, and Tiamat hates me. :( Just because I tried to get her son to be nice and friendly and come visit Glory with me, and I wouldn't let him blow people up. But Morgie still likes me - I think - so that's okay." Madhouse sounds fun. Pity it's the wrong metaregion. GenCon UK Fiesta slot? I know MD and Bas want to play it there...
gomeztoo 04-07-07, 03:46 PM	I meant more that... there's not much reason for her to tell most people about it, because either it's obvious, or it's not - either way, she wouldn't expect telling them to make any difference to their behaviour (Az doesn't really understand the way "normal" people think). Oh, Nes won't change her behavior. But she is happy to hear that Az has found out more about herself. "Though, hmmm.. I don't always listen to voices. Hmm. I mean they keep giving contrary advise, and just keep on talking and, hmm, sometimes I just got to hum to drown out the noise, they keep on. Hmm. Hmm. Like that, hmm? Nut maybe it had a nice voice. If iot had a nice voice I'd listen. Hmm. A goddess, eh? Hmm. wll, it's important to know who you are. And learning that you're a goddess sounds almost as important as realizing that those fangs and scales are not merely hmm, cosmetic. You know? Hmm. Did you pick a portfolio yet? You gotta, cause there are zillions of gods and they all want a spot. I'd try something simple, like windowsills. Or rainy afternoons, or yoghurt, or something. Want me to introduce you to Aasterinian? Or Zagyg? Vecna? Iuz... you know, maybe not him. Ow. there's agod RIGHT living in Dyvers. You should go visit him. Hmm. And don't worry about Tiamat, I'm good with her for reasons that are a bit difficult to explain, hmm, I don't even realize what I did wrong... Hmm. Now, come and I'll show you how well Kaerl does..." GenCon UK Fiesta slot? I know MD and Bas want to play it there... Don't know yet if I'm going... Though Cohen and Nes seem to go well together...
Mommy was an Orc 04-07-07, 04:31 PM	I wouldn't suggest a system like this in my region, though. I'm merely saying that you can find IC rationalization for it. Especially since discrimination (which this, IC, is) is never in any way logical. Except that discrimination is based on actually knowing something - i.e. the person has some knowledge(person not in armor who has a spellpouch and mystic symbols on their robe as an example) and based on that knowledge, the person jumps to an absurd conclusion based on stereotypes(that person is a necromancer). And there's the problem: How do you know someone is a Ranger? Assuming you know they're a Ranger, how do you know who their favored enemy is?
Mithreinmaethor 04-07-07, 05:03 PM	It depends what you are looking for the bonuses to be applied to and how large they will likely become. For example, my archer with ranger levels chose Elementals as they tend to have DR/- and every little bit helps. But taking the bonus for tracking, spotting and the like, in addition to the damage could be a factor for you. For my thug I took Giants for roleplaying reasons. I can never seem to recall that I do a little extra damage against them with him (but he hits so hard that +2 dam isn't much anyway). -James Also looking at with the Swift Hunter feat I can use my Skirmish extra damage against them also. Both Elementals and Constructs have DR. Undead and oozes are just annoying. Just not sure what I will run into more often.
King Kashue 04-07-07, 05:11 PM	And there's the problem: How do you know someone is a Ranger? Assuming you know they're a Ranger, how do you know who their favored enemy is? Knowledge: Metagaming... That's the skill that half of LG players use in their "role-playing" decisions...
JamesMaissen 04-08-07, 09:55 AM	Knowledge: Metagaming... That's the skill that half of LG players use in their "role-playing" decisions... And this should be encouraged? It's up there with a judge targetting the 'wizard' first with a bad guy that can't know that the guy he sees in full plate is a wizard rather than the one without armor wearing a spell component pouch carrying a staff... Regional flavor needs to be ingame and have logic and sound reasoning from that perspective. If it's automatic or out of game then it's simply additional mechanical rules that have to be surmounted prior to emersion. -James
King Kashue 04-08-07, 02:58 PM	And this should be encouraged? No, which is why my statement is rather clearly facetious...
ithardin 04-08-07, 03:36 PM	Case in point: You see a Wood Elf in full plate riding a scalemail barded heavy warhorse. He has a heavy wooden shield and a lance. On his person/mount are an elven courtblade, a scimitar and a composite longbow and arrows. What would an NPC (not you a player) think he is? Would an NPC have any clue that this elf has some swashbuckler in him? Would an NPC have any clue that this elf has ranger training? Would the paladin notice that the scimitar is made of Baatorian Greensteel and make a fuss about it :) I hope so because that is why I bought it...he he he (are you reading this Arrias?) I really enjoy it when at the beginning of a session the judge asks for descriptions of our PCs to help him with the role-playing aspects of the game.
gomeztoo 04-08-07, 04:32 PM	In my very first LG scenario, I described my cleric as a 'diplomat'. I spent half the scenario searching for/disarming traps, on the insistance of the party, since everyone assumed I was a rogue... So no, descriptions don't say anything. People could get a reputation though. Gomez
ithardin 04-08-07, 08:15 PM	When I say "description" I also mean how the PC is dressed, etc-not just "my character is a healer." If a wizard isn't festooned as one then how can the NPCs, etc discern he/she is a wizard...other then the whole arcane words or power and finger wiggling. I mean when Arafinwe first "met" Nesalia I checked the PC database at Verbobonc.net to see your entry on her. I would definitely say Nes has a "reputation" and I think our PCs having good descriptions of each other has enhanced our in-character posting on the Hearth board. But if there is a region, judge, etc who is going to have NPCs inherently know that Arafinwe has had special training to fight humans (his favored enemy) without the character himself alluding to it-then that is, in my humble opinion-a load of crap.
gomeztoo 04-09-07, 08:46 AM	In old D&D you had something like 'name level' - once you hit (iirc) lvl 9, you were a known hero. People would know about your exploits, possibly your strength and weaknesses. This kind of thing *could* work that way. Of course, since it is regional, it does become far fetched to assume it applies to anyone not from the region. It might not even apply to some regional PCs (my 'diplomat' was a spy and so not well known in the region under her own name). And it is very hard to justify for lower level PCs. Then again, once people have seen you fight, they may learn. Or someone with high Gather Info skills might. And for most rangers in the world, esp. NPCs, 'favored enemy' is fueled by racial hatred, and it may show in how they interact with people. It is still an awkard rule to implement, but if people somehow, through interaction or information gathering, realize that a man has focused his training to fight specific species, this might color their opinion. It al depends on how the rule is formulated, and especially how DMs use it, whether it all makes sense on the end.
Lupo 04-09-07, 09:19 AM	In old D&D you had something like 'name level' - once you hit (iirc) lvl 9, you were a known hero. People would know about your exploits, possibly your strength and weaknesses. This kind of thing *could* work that way. Of course, since it is regional, it does become far fetched to assume it applies to anyone not from the region. It might not even apply to some regional PCs (my 'diplomat' was a spy and so not well known in the region under her own name). And it is very hard to justify for lower level PCs. Then again, once people have seen you fight, they may learn. Or someone with high Gather Info skills might. And for most rangers in the world, esp. NPCs, 'favored enemy' is fueled by racial hatred, and it may show in how they interact with people. It is still an awkard rule to implement, but if people somehow, through interaction or information gathering, realize that a man has focused his training to fight specific species, this might color their opinion. It al depends on how the rule is formulated, and especially how DMs use it, whether it all makes sense on the end. a character can always become (in)-famous, at least when the character really does - eh - interesting things. and the description of the character might be spread to several organizations - some official some more shady ;). a fellow player has two of his characters mentioned on the regional web site, one is officially wanted for attacking the city guard (different from the "wanted in ahlissa cert" that a lot of characters sport nowadays:)), the other is under special observation, his whereabouts should be reported to the chancellor of the local princess ;). on the other hand, a lot of wastrians and bullywuggs might have heard of the high ranking heroes of sunndi that constantly try to - and often success in - stopping their invasion into sunndi. anyway every player - at least a player of an elven character - in sunndi learns one nasty feature of the bullywuggs the hard way, IF they have ranger levels - and ranger is their favorite class - their favored enemy is E.L.F.! ciao martin m.
Mommy was an Orc 04-09-07, 12:10 PM	Then again, once people have seen you fight, they may learn. Or someone with high Gather Info skills might. Unless there's some kind of weird test, I'm still not sure how it applies - my Rogue Ranger Archer has a steady history of critting dragons(to the point where he actually nearly took one down by himself after critting it twice in the same combat). He also routinely shreds evil outsiders. If you looked at his history, you'd say if he has a favored enemy, it must be Dragons or Outsiders(Evil) because of how effective he's been against them. But really, he's got a Sacred Bow, I seem to roll fantastically well against Dragons, and I rarely fight Undead - my actual favored enemy.
Jay_Ibero_911 04-09-07, 12:54 PM	...And for most rangers in the world, esp. NPCs, 'favored enemy' is fueled by racial hatred, and it may show in how they interact with people... That's a broad generalization to make. The ability itself has nothing to do with hatred, it's just that hatred is the simplest roleplay reason to choose a favored enemy, but you don't actually need any justification for your favored enemy choice. For instance, my bright sands ranger has vermin as his favored enemy, just because they are fairly common in the desert. He doesn't hate them, he just is better at combating them due to experience. And from previous examples, a local sherriff with a level in ranger might have his own race as favored enemy because he constantly has to deal with them. Overall, unless a player has explicitly stated that his character hates their favored enemy, there shouldn't be any social penalties involved, and if they do explicitly hate group X, then the penalties should come from the way they are roleplaying, not from having a favored enemy.
gomeztoo 04-09-07, 03:50 PM	That's a broad generalization to make. The ability itself has nothing to do with hatred, it's just that hatred is the simplest roleplay reason to choose a favored enemy. So, quite likely, the most often chosen option. As witnessed by most NPCs I've met. Those bullywugs didn't take 'elf' as a favored enemy because they meet them regularly, for instance. When dealing with public opinion, it generally doesn't matter what the truth is. People will assume anyway. "You train to kill humans? You must really hate us..." Etc. Overall, unless a player has explicitly stated that his character hates their favored enemy, there shouldn't be any social penalties involved, and if they do explicitly hate group X, then the penalties should come from the way they are roleplaying, not from having a favored enemy. I try not to state what "should" or "shouldn't" be. The fact is though that if people seem threatening, they are viewed with less affection. If you have a bow of dragon slaying, dragons are ging to like you less. So if an elf somehow realizes that you are trained to fight elves, they might make an issue of it. I don't see why that would be strange. What is problematic though is how people come to that conclusion. A DM should have reasonable grounds to believe that a PC is a threat to a specific group before he would apply penalties when interacting.
Mommy was an Orc 04-09-07, 03:51 PM	Overall, unless a player has explicitly stated that his character hates their favored enemy, there shouldn't be any social penalties involved, and if they do explicitly hate group X, then the penalties should come from the way they are roleplaying, not from having a favored enemy. That should be especially true if the person they're talking to is actually their favored enemy - after all, it is hard to get a +2 to Bluff/Sense Motive checks if the person is phenomenally suspicious of you due to thinking you hate them...
Gallaway 04-10-07, 12:18 AM	Sorry that this a a break from the context of the OP's question. But what would others suggest to take as Favored Enemies from the following list (I can pick 2) Undead Constructs Elementals Oozes Oozes ?? why oozes ???
Mithreinmaethor 04-10-07, 06:46 AM	Oozes ?? why oozes ??? A bad experience just a baaaaaaad experience :)