Readied action: Rapid Summon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Readied action: Rapid Summon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
03-01-07, 02:00 PM This idea popped into my head the other day.

If I ready an action and have a Rapid (i.e. standard action to cast) Summon Spell ready can I use it to potentially disrupt spellcasting?

That is if BBEG starts to cast, I summon a critter. If the critter is successful in hitting the caster with his first attack, does the struck caster have to roll a concentration check?

I was thinking yes. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-01-07, 02:38 PM This idea popped into my head the other day.

If I ready an action and have a Rapid (i.e. standard action to cast) Summon Spell ready can I use it to potentially disrupt spellcasting?

That is if BBEG starts to cast, I summon a critter. If the critter is successful in hitting the caster with his first attack, does the struck caster have to roll a concentration check?

I was thinking yes. I'd like to hear your opinions.

I'd think so, because readied actions occur immediately before the action that triggered them, and if you readied a spell, you would resolve the spells effects (in this case the creature's attack), which could require the caster to then make a concentration check...
JJeff
03-01-07, 07:58 PM And this would also make a good anti-charging tactic.

"I ready an action to Rapid Summon a Bear in the path of the first enemy that charges me"

Now, that's just cool.
Munkwunk
03-01-07, 10:51 PM Absolutely.

That is an awesome idea which I hadn't considered before. Rapid Summon an earth elemental, giant croc, or other large beastie with Improved Grab and watch the fun. Oh, and cackle gleefully; you can't forget that part.

Edit: Relevant text:
It appears where you designate and acts immediately
Timlagor
03-02-07, 08:02 AM You can definitely block a charge like that.

I'd expect some variation on whether you can disrupt a spellcaster like that: you're definitely stretching the intent of that phrase.

If you're going to have them grappled you may as well just go ahead and summon it on your turn though.
kjenks
03-05-07, 05:36 PM But if your bear grapples the spellcaster on your turn, the spellcaster's friends could get him out of the grapple by the time the spellcaster's turn comes up. By using a readied action, you're just as likely to hit the spellcaster and you're more likely to disrupt what he's doing.
Timlagor
03-05-07, 09:18 PM Come to think of it you also make him use up the spell and not be able to escape the grapple on his turn (always assuming you don't just trigger his Contingency).

However I'm still not convinced that you should be able to disrupt them like that.
UMiskatonic
03-05-07, 09:34 PM Timlagor,

How is this any different from "I ready and action to fireball/orb of force/disintegrate him?

It seems the same to me, except that the school of magic has changed.
Zodar6
03-06-07, 03:27 AM IIRC this doesn't work, because Rapid Spell changes the casting time of a spell with 1 round to 1 full round action. And you can only ready a standard action.
clik_ml
03-06-07, 08:17 AM IIRC this doesn't work, because Rapid Spell changes the casting time of a spell with 1 round to 1 full round action. And you can only ready a standard action.

"A rapid spell with a casting time of 1 full round can be cast as a standard action."

That's the verbatim text from the feat in Complete Divine.

It goes on to say that a rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round (so a lesser restoration could be sped up, I suppose).
Zodar6
03-06-07, 10:01 AM "A rapid spell with a casting time of 1 full round can be cast as a standard action."

That's the verbatim text from the feat in Complete Divine.

It goes on to say that a rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round (so a lesser restoration could be sped up, I suppose).

Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells:

Casting Time: 1 round

Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round')

So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action.
Lupo
03-06-07, 10:29 AM Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells:

Casting Time: 1 round

Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round')

So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action.

we had this discussion at least four times now, a slight majority thinks you can use "rapid spell" to cast summonings (and enlarge persons) as a standard action, while a minority holds the ramparts of word-by-word in deep meaning analysis :rolleyes:.

the problem is that the writers of the splat books and the original rules don't double and triple check whether what they want to create and what they create is waterproof.

without a somehow "liberal" interpretation of the feat and the casting time measurements the whole feat is so near to absolute uselesness that it would have been an severe environmental crime to waste ink and paper on it;).

ciao

martin m.
Mortepierre
03-06-07, 10:55 AM Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells:

Casting Time: 1 round

Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round')

So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action.

Directly from the SRD:
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action

So, yes, you can use the feat to reduce it to a standard action.
Rerednaw
03-06-07, 10:59 AM Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells:

Casting Time: 1 round

Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round')

So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action.

Eh?

CASTING TIME
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
JJeff
03-06-07, 06:29 PM From the SRD:
Sorcerers and Bards
Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.)

But the Spon casting with Metamagic produces Full-Round spells which are not 1-round Spells. Maybe Rapid Spell refers to this kind of "Full-Round"-ness?
Timlagor
03-06-07, 08:51 PM From the SRD:

But the Spon casting with Metamagic produces Full-Round spells which are not 1-round Spells. Maybe Rapid Spell refers to this kind of "Full-Round"-ness?

Yeah... that would be really helpful. [/sarcasm]
just_be_glad_now
03-06-07, 09:22 PM Another useful tactic for this is, when readied against a spellcaster, to throw out 1d4+1 Dire Weasels. This provides a credible threat that FoM doesn't affect, in that the caster knows that unless his spellcaster uses the spell he is already casting to get rid of the weasels, they'll be slurping (1d4+1)*1d4 con before he gets another action (because their initiative moves to immediately before the baddy's).

This is primarily a tactic for Alienists, though, because dire weasels attack bonus isn't so great.

You can be sure, however, that when you're finished explaining this tactic, people at the table will be saying that you are one sick puppy. I've nicknamed it the "time dilation attack" because of the way it hits for 2 rounds before the enemy has a chance to deal with it.

Brayden Glad
player of an Aln15

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 03-01-07, 02:00 PM	This idea popped into my head the other day. If I ready an action and have a Rapid (i.e. standard action to cast) Summon Spell ready can I use it to potentially disrupt spellcasting? That is if BBEG starts to cast, I summon a critter. If the critter is successful in hitting the caster with his first attack, does the struck caster have to roll a concentration check? I was thinking yes. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-01-07, 02:38 PM	This idea popped into my head the other day. If I ready an action and have a Rapid (i.e. standard action to cast) Summon Spell ready can I use it to potentially disrupt spellcasting? That is if BBEG starts to cast, I summon a critter. If the critter is successful in hitting the caster with his first attack, does the struck caster have to roll a concentration check? I was thinking yes. I'd like to hear your opinions. I'd think so, because readied actions occur immediately before the action that triggered them, and if you readied a spell, you would resolve the spells effects (in this case the creature's attack), which could require the caster to then make a concentration check...
JJeff 03-01-07, 07:58 PM	And this would also make a good anti-charging tactic. "I ready an action to Rapid Summon a Bear in the path of the first enemy that charges me" Now, that's just cool.
Munkwunk 03-01-07, 10:51 PM	Absolutely. That is an awesome idea which I hadn't considered before. Rapid Summon an earth elemental, giant croc, or other large beastie with Improved Grab and watch the fun. Oh, and cackle gleefully; you can't forget that part. Edit: Relevant text: It appears where you designate and acts immediately
Timlagor 03-02-07, 08:02 AM	You can definitely block a charge like that. I'd expect some variation on whether you can disrupt a spellcaster like that: you're definitely stretching the intent of that phrase. If you're going to have them grappled you may as well just go ahead and summon it on your turn though.
kjenks 03-05-07, 05:36 PM	But if your bear grapples the spellcaster on your turn, the spellcaster's friends could get him out of the grapple by the time the spellcaster's turn comes up. By using a readied action, you're just as likely to hit the spellcaster and you're more likely to disrupt what he's doing.
Timlagor 03-05-07, 09:18 PM	Come to think of it you also make him use up the spell and not be able to escape the grapple on his turn (always assuming you don't just trigger his Contingency). However I'm still not convinced that you should be able to disrupt them like that.
UMiskatonic 03-05-07, 09:34 PM	Timlagor, How is this any different from "I ready and action to fireball/orb of force/disintegrate him? It seems the same to me, except that the school of magic has changed.
Zodar6 03-06-07, 03:27 AM	IIRC this doesn't work, because Rapid Spell changes the casting time of a spell with 1 round to 1 full round action. And you can only ready a standard action.
clik_ml 03-06-07, 08:17 AM	IIRC this doesn't work, because Rapid Spell changes the casting time of a spell with 1 round to 1 full round action. And you can only ready a standard action. "A rapid spell with a casting time of 1 full round can be cast as a standard action." That's the verbatim text from the feat in Complete Divine. It goes on to say that a rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round (so a lesser restoration could be sped up, I suppose).
Zodar6 03-06-07, 10:01 AM	"A rapid spell with a casting time of 1 full round can be cast as a standard action." That's the verbatim text from the feat in Complete Divine. It goes on to say that a rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round (so a lesser restoration could be sped up, I suppose). Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells: Casting Time: 1 round Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round') So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action.
Lupo 03-06-07, 10:29 AM	Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells: Casting Time: 1 round Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round') So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action. we had this discussion at least four times now, a slight majority thinks you can use "rapid spell" to cast summonings (and enlarge persons) as a standard action, while a minority holds the ramparts of word-by-word in deep meaning analysis :rolleyes:. the problem is that the writers of the splat books and the original rules don't double and triple check whether what they want to create and what they create is waterproof. without a somehow "liberal" interpretation of the feat and the casting time measurements the whole feat is so near to absolute uselesness that it would have been an severe environmental crime to waste ink and paper on it;). ciao martin m.
Mortepierre 03-06-07, 10:55 AM	Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells: Casting Time: 1 round Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round') So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action. Directly from the SRD: A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action So, yes, you can use the feat to reduce it to a standard action.
Rerednaw 03-06-07, 10:59 AM	Now look at the casting time of the summon line of spells: Casting Time: 1 round Notice how it doesn't say '1 full round' . (I don't think there are any spells in the PHB that have a casting time of '1 full round') So, RAW you can't use Rapid Spell to change the casting time of a summon spell to 1 standard action. Eh? CASTING TIME Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action. A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
JJeff 03-06-07, 06:29 PM	From the SRD: Sorcerers and Bards Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.) But the Spon casting with Metamagic produces Full-Round spells which are not 1-round Spells. Maybe Rapid Spell refers to this kind of "Full-Round"-ness?
Timlagor 03-06-07, 08:51 PM	From the SRD: But the Spon casting with Metamagic produces Full-Round spells which are not 1-round Spells. Maybe Rapid Spell refers to this kind of "Full-Round"-ness? Yeah... that would be really helpful. [/sarcasm]
just_be_glad_now 03-06-07, 09:22 PM	Another useful tactic for this is, when readied against a spellcaster, to throw out 1d4+1 Dire Weasels. This provides a credible threat that FoM doesn't affect, in that the caster knows that unless his spellcaster uses the spell he is already casting to get rid of the weasels, they'll be slurping (1d4+1)*1d4 con before he gets another action (because their initiative moves to immediately before the baddy's). This is primarily a tactic for Alienists, though, because dire weasels attack bonus isn't so great. You can be sure, however, that when you're finished explaining this tactic, people at the table will be saying that you are one sick puppy. I've nicknamed it the "time dilation attack" because of the way it hits for 2 rounds before the enemy has a chance to deal with it. Brayden Glad player of an Aln15