Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mythrasus 03-04-07, 04:09 AM	Hi, Trying to avoid spoilers but a lot of information from Red Hand of Doom says to refer back to the RPGA website as it will all be posted by the end of 2006. Have I missed this and if so can anyone point me toward a link, or has this been delayed and as yet no extra info is out? Thanks
JJeff 03-04-07, 09:54 AM	Hi, Trying to avoid spoilers but a lot of information from Red Hand of Doom says to refer back to the RPGA website as it will all be posted by the end of 2006. Have I missed this and if so can anyone point me toward a link, or has this been delayed and as yet no extra info is out? Thanks Nope. It has not been released yet...
Rerednaw 03-04-07, 09:50 PM	Hi, Trying to avoid spoilers but a lot of information from Red Hand of Doom says to refer back to the RPGA website as it will all be posted by the end of 2006. Have I missed this and if so can anyone point me toward a link, or has this been delayed and as yet no extra info is out? Thanks We're already playing Part 1 here so the LG adaption to the module has been released. Set up a game day and download it like any other module. It starts at APL6 and if you want to play the entire series you must have 35 TU's left for this year. Have a well-balanced group, be prepared for tough combats and be able to handle out of combat situations as well.
Arvagor 03-04-07, 10:29 PM	Trying to avoid spoilers but a lot of information from Red Hand of Doom says to refer back to the RPGA website as it will all be posted by the end of 2006. Have I missed this and if so can anyone point me toward a link, or has this been delayed and as yet no extra info is out?Info was posted at the end of October: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgad/20061025a There's also some additional info here: http://www.tassek.anang.com/blurbs.html#adp603
Mythrasus 03-05-07, 01:18 AM	Thanks, Just to be clear, I have played the entire 5 parts of the adaption....and a lot of the AR's say to see the wizards website for information. I'll guess I'll have to wait and hope its out soon.
pedr 03-05-07, 07:06 AM	There's a mention of it being on its way in one of the other threads here, I seem to recall. No more information than that, though. OT, are you the Onnwalan Mythrasus? We're trying to put a second Oxford / Oxford-ish group together to play it so if you are and know someone who could DM or other UK based people who are yet to play it, do let me know!
Rerednaw 03-05-07, 09:24 AM	Thanks, Just to be clear, I have played the entire 5 parts of the adaption....and a lot of the AR's say to see the wizards website for information. I'll guess I'll have to wait and hope its out soon. Really? Nice! Without any spoilers how did you find the module? And was your party balanced? Did you play up, down or right on the APL?
JJeff 03-05-07, 11:06 AM	[/SIZE] Really? Nice! Without any spoilers how did you find the module? And was your party balanced? Did you play up, down or right on the APL? Wait... I thought you meant the stuff in game that tells you to refer to the website at the end of 2006.... the rewards stuff..
Mythrasus 03-06-07, 03:27 AM	yes I'm in the UK, used to be the Onnwal PoC :) As to the adventure very good, we played at the APL maybe a little above, but it was hard, the EL of the encounters has not taken into account a lot of the situation modifiers, so we had some very hairy moments and several deaths... Great to finish it, and yes I do mean the rewards that tell you to reference the website JJeff, sadly we're now several months past the end of 2006....
Timlagor 03-06-07, 12:40 PM	I've had a moment of inspiration. I suspect that when the reference to 2006 was written, that was the date for the expiry of the Module. It has since been extended and so they can't release the information. (was it originally due to expire then? -I know they extended it but I can't remember when from)
kenobi65 03-06-07, 02:52 PM	I've had a moment of inspiration. I suspect that when the reference to 2006 was written, that was the date for the expiry of the Module. It has since been extended and so they can't release the information. (was it originally due to expire then? -I know they extended it but I can't remember when from) I suspect that isn't it. I think it was always going to expire in 2007; if you'll recall, the "extension" was actually the one-time allowance to use 2008 TUs to finish the mod in 2007 (which was done because the ADP was released considerably later in 2006 than was originally planned).
Dragon9 03-06-07, 05:53 PM	As to the adventure very good, we played at the APL maybe a little above, but it was hard, the EL of the encounters has not taken into account a lot of the situation modifiers, so we had some very hairy moments and several deaths... Wow... my group has played the first four parts and are gearing up to play the last part this weekend. Up until part 4, we waltzed through it. We have a pretty good group. And that's without an arcane caster... although my Master Thrower has enough ranks in UMD that she can easily fill in with scrolls and wands with no possibility of failures on Wands and some levels of scrolls.
Mortepierre 03-06-07, 06:19 PM	Shouldn't come as a surprise as there are so many different groups out there. A table of 4 will have a harder time than a table of 5 or 6 (not counting "pets") PC just meeting the APL requirement will suffer while those who are 2 lvls higher than the APL will have a much easier time. Groups made of min/maxed PC will evidently have less a challenge than groups made of non-optimized PC. In short, there isn't any good basis of comparison.
Mythrasus 03-06-07, 07:08 PM	That and the Gm dice were on fire and seemed to crit more than miss... Cleric and tank were joined at the hip, and I was the cleric :(
Rerednaw 03-06-07, 09:18 PM	Wow... my group has played the first four parts and are gearing up to play the last part this weekend. Up until part 4, we waltzed through it. We have a pretty good group. And that's without an arcane caster... although my Master Thrower has enough ranks in UMD that she can easily fill in with scrolls and wands with no possibility of failures on Wands and some levels of scrolls. We have a full table: centaur, cleric, ftr/wiz, monk, wiz (me), and a rogue. Most are playing up 1. Only the monk is playing down. We have had trouble since the first encounter. We are getting better. I hope the rate we improve is faster than the opponents.
Cynric 03-06-07, 09:31 PM	We started with a bit of an overpowered party but we have Iconics, Pure cleric, Pure wizard(elemental Savant), Pure Druid, Pure Fighter, Barbarian Fighter and a pure Bard. We lost the bard due to real life issues, but we have still run into some problems. Although we hav only played part 1-3 so far, we are not looking forward to part 4 though. We have a nasty feeling about one of the monsters we may be facing.
Evanta 03-06-07, 10:27 PM	My party, all level 6: mutt fighter mutt archer monk cleric wizard/MOTAO druid Quite a few hairy encounters in part 1 alone, though ironically it the random encounters gave us more trouble than most of the set encounters.
JamesMaissen 03-06-07, 11:29 PM	A question to those of you that have played most of the parts out there: How long has each taken you? And a followup: do you feel that it should/could have gone longer/shorter? -James
Dragon9 03-07-07, 12:14 AM	My party consists of: 1 Barbarian/Animal Lord 1 Barbarian/Bard 1 Cleric 1 Fighter 1 Archer mutt 1 Master Thrower (also back-up arcane caster/cleric/rogue/etc.) We did part one in 4 hours. Part two in 6. Parts 3 and four we did one day with about 7-8 hours of play time. Part 4 was an issue because one of our heavy hitters went down early with a full power attack crit when he charged something with reach. A good part of that encounter was then trying to get him out of harms way and healed before he died. A Time Stop favor helped in that regard. Otherwise, we have been utilizing good tactics.
Howie23 03-07-07, 03:00 AM	We did part one in 4 hours. Part two in 6. Parts 3 and four we did one day with about 7-8 hours of play time. Ok. I've been standing out here on the wings waiting for other replies. I'll submit mine now. I have run part one twice. The first part was non-RPGA and took about 25 hours. The second as RPGA for LG, and took 17 hours. Part Two: I ran a portion of this for non-RPGA players in about 6 hours. I'm hoping to run the whole thing at RPGA speed in 12 hours. I readily admit that I am slow as a judge. I'll readily admit that I'm slowing things down for this scenario. I ran Voice of Reason three times in 8, 9, and 12 hours as a point of comparison. That said....running part one in 4 hours is robbing the players of the game. YMMV, etc. If you're hunting ARs rather than a gaming experience, 4 hours is probably too long. (insert serious face here) David
Madfox11 03-07-07, 03:54 AM	I have run part 1 to 3 now. Part 1 and 2 I run in roughly 16 hours, but I would have prefered to have had a couple of more hours to do so. There were some points that I rushed through that would have been more fun if we had had the time. Part 3 took me 12 hours, but the PCs avoided two 'random' encounters entirely. There was no sense of rushing through any encounters though. Missing the random encounters had more to do with the mode of travel (and people running the adventure know what I mean) and conscious decision of the players. I had more time if I had really wanted to run those.
Dragon9 03-07-07, 08:35 AM	That said....running part one in 4 hours is robbing the players of the game. I will say I did not feel robbed playing it in 4 hours. We walked the combats, none of them lasting more than a few rounds, and had plenty of time for RP with each other and NPCs. The group I posted above is mostly @ APL, with my PC being 2 levels up, but she's weak at her APL so she's actually more in line APL/power wise playing down. And so far having a dedicated arcane caster or rogue hasn't hurt us.
Haro 03-07-07, 04:46 PM	I will say I did not feel robbed playing it in 4 hours. We walked the combats, none of them lasting more than a few rounds, and had plenty of time for RP with each other and NPCs. The group I posted above is mostly @ APL, with my PC being 2 levels up, but she's weak at her APL so she's actually more in line APL/power wise playing down. And so far having a dedicated arcane caster or rogue hasn't hurt us. I think it is such a shame your DM is ruining the experience for you. I have played and run RHoD and with all due respect, the laws of probability don't stretch that far that the party you describe could do it that easily, that quickly. That's harsh I know but RHoD puts most LG mods in the shade with regard to combat difficulty. Ask your DM to prep it properly before you play other parts, it's central to the scenario. Joe
copper_wyrmling 03-07-07, 04:52 PM	That's harsh I know but RHoD puts most LG mods in the shade with regard to combat difficulty. Ask your DM to prep it properly before you play other parts, it's central to the scenario. Wow, I'll have to read it after we're done. It hasn't seemed particularly difficult, so far (I've done parts 1-3). We do have three heavy hitters at or above APL, with an above-APL mystic theurge doing support, so that may be helping (the other two PCs are a slightly-below-APL wizard who is getting better but still has a regrettable tendency to use his L1 wand of magic missile rather than casting spells out of his head, and an above-APL cleric/rogue/sorcerer multiclass who unfortunately doesn't fill any of the roles particularly well :( )
Howie23 03-07-07, 04:56 PM	(the other two PCs are a slightly-below-APL wizard who is getting better but still has a regrettable tendency to use his L1 wand of magic missile rather than casting spells out of his head, and an above-APL cleric/rogue/sorcerer multiclass who unfortunately doesn't fill any of the roles particularly well :( ) Well, obviously the solution is for the rogue to pilfer the wizard's wand. :) David
Dragon9 03-07-07, 05:58 PM	I think it is such a shame your DM is ruining the experience for you. I have played and run RHoD and with all due respect, the laws of probability don't stretch that far that the party you describe could do it that easily, that quickly. That's harsh I know but RHoD puts most LG mods in the shade with regard to combat difficulty. Ask your DM to prep it properly before you play other parts, it's central to the scenario. Oh, we have been having a blast! Our group just has good tactics. A few well placed grease lets the full power attacking barbarians down prone opponents easily and plenty of tanglefoot bags makes htings easier as well. We are by no means an overpowered group. The DM IS prepped, and so are we. We work well together as a group. Our tactics are sound. I don't se ehow that ruins the experience. :)
Nerax 03-07-07, 06:50 PM	Our party consists of: Cleric/Ranger(me) Archer/Healer 6th Rogue/Ranger TWF/Archer 7th Paladin/Ranger Tank/TWF 5th Ranger/Wizard Archer 7th Ranger/Fighter Archer 4th Cleric/Fighter/Pious Templar (one of us is not like the others :P) Tank 7th This is how are party started. We have done good so far in the first two parts. Most of us will be 8th in part three. It has really helped our party being ranged combatants. I don't see us failing a track check though... :P I am a little worried about the farther we go since we are all mutted and have no true healer or Arcane(magic missile is about it) and our tanks are more blockers than anything else. Hopefully the fact that a minimum of 7 (soon to be 8) arrows, going down range, at the enemy a round will make up for our weaknesses.
Haro 03-07-07, 09:29 PM	Oh, we have been having a blast! Our group just has good tactics. A few well placed grease lets the full power attacking barbarians down prone opponents easily and plenty of tanglefoot bags makes htings easier as well. We are by no means an overpowered group. The DM IS prepped, and so are we. We work well together as a group. Our tactics are sound. I don't se ehow that ruins the experience. :) So your party managed to defeat 108 ELs of enemies in the same amount of time it takes most parties to defeat 24? (4 hours, 24ELs = 1 round APL6) If your party is as you say in no way overpowered, then I'm sorry to say your DM has not been running it correctly. The party of six I played part one with bordered on overpowered, contained authors and campaign staff, was well organised and still took 10 hours. Your group doing it in four just doesn't make sense. Anyway, not to worry, if you're having fun then I guess everyone's happy :) Joe
Samwise 03-08-07, 01:15 AM	I think it is such a shame your DM is ruining the experience for you. I have played and run RHoD and with all due respect, the laws of probability don't stretch that far that the party you describe could do it that easily, that quickly. That's harsh I know but RHoD puts most LG mods in the shade with regard to combat difficulty. Ask your DM to prep it properly before you play other parts, it's central to the scenario. Joe Gee, I'd think that making players sit around for more than 8 hours playing this would be ruining the experience for them. There are numerous places in each section where good tactics can completely overwhelm the difficulty of the adventure, and even more where luck will make it irrelevant. Naturally discussing those would involve massive spoilers, so I can't go into details, but neither group I ran through part 1 felt in any way cheated by finishing in less than 8 hours. And I did prepare it. The thing is, the players prepared themselves as well, both before the adventure and every time they could for an encounter. Again, tactics matters, and should easily halve the time to run any combat. The party of six I played part one with bordered on overpowered, contained authors and campaign staff, was well organised and still took 10 hours. Your group doing it in four just doesn't make sense. Why would authors and campaign staff be any better or worse at finishing an adventure quickly than anyone else?
Haro 03-08-07, 03:47 AM	neither group I ran through part 1 felt in any way cheated by finishing in less than 8 hours. <snip> Why would authors and campaign staff be any better or worse at finishing an adventure quickly than anyone else? Less than 8 hours is worlds away from finishing in 4 as I'm sure you know. 8 hours is quite achieveable for a well prepped, smart party. Saying it could be done in 4 with a party that was in no way overpowered? Come on... I stated the authors etc. as a way of saying the party had a certain level of experience and knowhow - nothing more. It was an afterthought. Joe
Samwise 03-08-07, 11:36 AM	Less than 8 hours is worlds away from finishing in 4 as I'm sure you know. 8 hours is quite achieveable for a well prepped, smart party. Saying it could be done in 4 with a party that was in no way overpowered? Come on... No, I don't know that. I do know how much time basic preparation can take. 30 minutes to settle down. 30 minutes to confer and prep spell lists. 15 minutes to draw out each encounter map. 15 minutes to clean up each encounter map. 15 minutes to decide on a watch schedule - every night! And on and on. Then there is time to run each combat. 30 minutes to discuss how to fight the encounter. 30 minutes to resolve pre-combat buffs. 5 minutes for each player to decide what to do and how to do it. 5 minutes for the DM to decide how each NPC acts. Calculate that in this adventure! 15 minutes to resolve post-combat healing. And finally, consider the effects of anyone over 6th level. A single 7th level character cuts at least 30 minutes off of total run time. An 8th level character will cut a full hour out. So no, I don't see that big a gap between 8 hours and 4 hours with this adventure. It all depends on factors that should be thoroughly known before commenting on them. And even then, there is no need to use negative language for people who like to play a particular way. I stated the authors etc. as a way of saying the party had a certain level of experience and knowhow - nothing more. It was an afterthought. Joe And I've seen authors and others who lived for the opportunity to drag out an adventure to an excruciating degree. It is not a relevant factor.
Zanzibax 03-08-07, 12:18 PM	Why would authors and campaign staff be any better or worse at finishing an adventure quickly than anyone else? They should be worse, because they are authors who haven't devised the truly evil tactics you find commonly in the groups *ahem* YOU encounter frequently. I'm gunna get me another Feather Token: Tree.
King Kashue 03-08-07, 12:50 PM	I have no opinion on the "you're ruining it" "no we're not" matter, I'm just making a snarky observation or two :D 15 minutes to clean up each encounter map. It takes you 15 minutes to wash pen off a battlemat? :D 15 minutes to decide on a watch schedule - every night! Have a number of OCD players, do you? :D 30 minutes to discuss how to fight the encounter. What DM is allowing players to have a significant prefight discussion? Any big discussion at the point of an encounter is a bit off, 30 minutes is crazy. How in the world are the characters having that long of a discussion between themselves in the middle of a combat? If this is prep for a battle they're initiating, and they have in-character time, then ignore my questions ;) 30 minutes to resolve pre-combat buffs. At this point it really seems like you're just exaggerating. 6th-8th level characters just don't have that many spells/abilities to coordinate... 15 minutes to resolve post-combat healing. Again, it takes 15 minutes to ask and answer the question "how much are you down?" And even then, there is no need to use negative language for people who like to play a particular way. True and double true... Expressing some doubt is one thing, because honestly, from everything I've heard, I find it doubtful as well...But there's no need to say "your DM is doing it wrong and ruining it for you", because there's no possible way to know that...
Samwise 03-08-07, 01:18 PM	I have no opinion on the "you're ruining it" "no we're not" matter, I'm just making a snarky observation or two :D It takes you 15 minutes to wash pen off a battlemat? :D Me? No. Some people I've seen? Yes. Have a number of OCD players, do you? :D I am not doctor, and I don't play one on TV, but I've seen some pretty disorganized and/or obsessive groups out there. What DM is allowing players to have a significant prefight discussion? Any big discussion at the point of an encounter is a bit off, 30 minutes is crazy. How in the world are the characters having that long of a discussion between themselves in the middle of a combat? If this is prep for a battle they're initiating, and they have in-character time, then ignore my questions ;) Sometimes it is legitimate prep-time, and the encounter really does permit you to stop and consider what you will do before starting the battle. Sometimes it is just DMs and/or players who insist it is "role-playing," and would freak out at any suggestion you might stop them. Sometimes it is the battle coming to a PC death point, and I at least give players a few more minutes to try and come up with some plan to avoid it. (The "convenient" run to the rest room is a good way to handle it.) And sometimes it is just a reserved or inexperienced DM letting the players walk all over him. At this point it really seems like you're just exaggerating. 6th-8th level characters just don't have that many spells/abilities to coordinate... I wish I were. I remember two points in Bright Lands adventures where 4th-6th level PCs, myself among them, took nearly 30 minutes to set themselves up. Scouring MILs and ARs for random favors and so forth eats up time. Again, it takes 15 minutes to ask and answer the question "how much are you down?" Sadly, it can. Mind you, I do my best not to play like that. That's why I've finished each of four RHoD sessions in under 8 hours. (Part 1 twice, parts 2 and 3 once each.) But those groups went slowly at several points, could have bumped the time atrociously at several others (everyone who expected to gain a level had prepared their character at the new level before the sessions started, I can't imagine the time lost doing that during a session), and we had reasonable breaks for food and the bathroom. While I will admit that even I, widely acknowledged speed demon DM of the east coast, would have trouble dropping that time much below 6 hours, I am sure there are some exceedingly coordinated types out there, including a DM who will have prepared fully blown up maps of all locations ahead of time, prepped the random encounters, and so forth, and will snicker at the thought of going much over 6 hours. True and double true... Expressing some doubt is one thing, because honestly, from everything I've heard, I find it doubtful as well...But there's no need to say "your DM is doing it wrong and ruining it for you", because there's no possible way to know that... Right. That was what I was trying to convey, and just how irritating it can be to have it thrown back at you. If you want to take half a dozen 6 hour sessions for each part, go for it. If that isn't my preference, I'll find another group. But there is no need to run around passing judgement on people for their gaming style. Been there, done that, never got anything out of it. Now I just want to game. :)
Zanzibax 03-08-07, 01:24 PM	It takes you 15 minutes to wash pen off a battlemat? :D S: "OK, players...remove your pieces so I can clean off the mat." Z: "Well...are we keeping the same marching order?" S: "I don't care." Z: "Not you...everyone else." S: "Just get them off the mat" Z: "Fine." S: "The soda too." Z: "What the heck? The soda too?" OOPS! S: "Now clean up the soda, idiot." Z: "You spilled it. You clean it" (etc.) Have a number of OCD players, do you? :D :ahem: What DM is allowing players to have a significant prefight discussion? Any big discussion at the point of an encounter is a bit off, 30 minutes is crazy. How in the world are the characters having that long of a discussion between themselves in the middle of a combat? Not in the middle of combat...but remember speaking is a free action...and Samwise's monsters are often taunted...and so are his badgers. At this point it really seems like you're just exaggerating. 6th-8th level characters just don't have that many spells/abilities to coordinate... Sure they do...Unseen Servant (the penultimate spell)...Shield...Sonic Weapon...Prot from Evil...ability pimps...bless...prayer...resist elements...etc. Again, it takes 15 minutes to ask and answer the question "how much are you down?" Healer: "How much you down?" Z: "About *this* much" Healer: "Can you do without the healing?" Z: "Can you do without the jokes?" Healer: "Not at the moment...so is that a deal?" Z: "Can we negotiate?" Healer: "Sure." <<some time later>> Z: "Thanks for healing me." Healer: "No problem...Next! So how far are you down?" X: "About *this* much" <<Wash, Rinse, Repeat>> True and double true... Expressing some doubt is one thing, because honestly, from everything I've heard, I find it doubtful as well...But there's no need to say "your DM is doing it wrong and ruining it for you", because there's no possible way to know that... Some players have a knack for breaking encounters. This can take a combat that would otherwise take an hour or two and end it in round 1...actually...*some* players have a *habit* of breaking entire *adventures*, which takes a 6 hour adventure (rushed) 30 minutes to end...not including sorting out the damage to the adventure and player rewards. I'm just *guessing* here...that Samwise has a *table* of players like this instead of just one or two. Just guessing. =Gileon O' Tree=
Howie23 03-08-07, 01:48 PM	Right. That was what I was trying to convey, and just how irritating it can be to have it thrown back at you. If you want to take half a dozen 6 hour sessions for each part, go for it. If that isn't my preference, I'll find another group. But there is no need to run around passing judgement on people for their gaming style. Been there, done that, never got anything out of it. Now I just want to game. :) I got your message, Sam, don't worry. :) I fully understand that there is variable playing style. I have acknowledged that I'm out on one end of it. I once saw Barbarous Coast played in 20 minutes. I sat at Kusnir in a 45 minute run, and I sat at Red Tide in 2 hours. I would place a 4 hour RHoD Part 1 in the same container. If everyone is of the same mind regarding playing style, more power to them...play what you want. However, I am of the opinion that the value of this mod is that it allows for home-campaign style game within LG. And, because of that, I think that providing a full spectrum of play style experience gives the best opportunity to avoid short-changing that option due to undue expectations. My apologies for being judgemental in my initial post in this thread. No apologies for taking it on the slow pace, nor for encouraging others to recognize that it is an option. David David
Samwise 03-08-07, 02:03 PM	I got your message, Sam, don't worry. :) I fully understand that there is variable playing style. I have acknowledged that I'm out on one end of it. I once saw Barbarous Coast played in 20 minutes. I sat at Kusnir in a 45 minute run, and I sat at Red Tide in 2 hours. I would place a 4 hour RHoD Part 1 in the same container. If everyone is of the same mind regarding playing style, more power to them...play what you want. However, I am of the opinion that the value of this mod is that it allows for home-campaign style game within LG. And, because of that, I think that providing a full spectrum of play style experience gives the best opportunity to avoid short-changing that option due to undue expectations. My apologies for being judgemental in my initial post in this thread. No apologies for taking it on the slow pace, nor for encouraging others to recognize that it is an option. David Cool then. (And I was at one of those lightning table of Kusnir. It went so fast primarily because I have most of the campaign material for anything related to the Sheldomar hardwired. Made it real easy to know who the good guys were and who the bad guys were. :P ) Mind you, I'd love a chance to run RHoD as a home game, purely for what I want to tweak in it. And I'm sure it would go much longer than any LG session I'd run because of what I'd change. I really don't compare the two styles I use because the effect I'm going for is so different. I wouldn't even mind if they'd already played it, that would just make it more fun as they learn the nasty ways I've modified it to account for a higher degree of competency among the bad guys. :schemes:
delewobmesid 03-08-07, 06:43 PM	how long are each part of the RHoD? I'm looking to skip part 2 so I can level up before moving into part 2 (I'm running with a cleric 4 after part 1)
King Kashue 03-08-07, 07:26 PM	Not in the middle of combat...but remember speaking is a free action... Yes, free actions...But Combat rounds are still only 6 seconds long...Yelling something out is one thing, but a player better have a very good explanation of how a 5 minute tactical discussion can take place in 6 seconds between yelling characters :D Sure they do...Unseen Servant (the penultimate spell)...Shield...Sonic Weapon...Prot from Evil...ability pimps...bless...prayer...resist elements...etc. Right, and none of those overlap...They don't need 30 minutes of coordination to figure out who's casting which morale bonus spells, who's casting which sacred bonus, etc... And even 30 minutes is long even for a high level party... Healer: "How much you down?" Z: "About *this* much" Healer: "Can you do without the healing?" Z: "Can you do without the jokes?" Healer: "Not at the moment...so is that a deal?" Z: "Can we negotiate?" Healer: "Sure." <<some time later>> Z: "Thanks for healing me." Healer: "No problem...Next! So how far are you down?" X: "About *this* much" <<Wash, Rinse, Repeat>> Ah...so the players we're describing are morons...why didn't you just say so :D;):D
King Kashue 03-08-07, 07:31 PM	I once saw Barbarous Coast played in 20 minutes. I sat at Kusnir in a 45 minute run, and I sat at Red Tide in 2 hours. I know the middle one was Rizzo, were the other two? :D And Rizzo cuts time from Combats, the opposite from what we're talking about... First Round "I hit AC 35, for 18 points of Damage" "Yeah, you guys are gonna mop the floor with them, I'm gonna wave it" :D Cool then. (And I was at one of those lightning table of Kusnir. It went so fast primarily because I have most of the campaign material for anything related to the Sheldomar hardwired. Made it real easy to know who the good guys were and who the bad guys were. :P ) There's also the fact the entire mod was 23 pages long, had no maps, no plot, and no NPC interaction...:D How that made it through editing, I don't know (well, I have my suspicions, but they're quite biased ;))... In prep for GenCon, I ended up drawing up maps, creating terrain and modifiers, setting patrol routes, essentially creating every detail that was actually necessary to run the module, but was left out...
MerricB 03-08-07, 07:39 PM	Part 1 took us about 6-7 hours. We had a strong party, and I'm *very* quick at running combats. Many discussions on EN World have shown I'm much faster than most people.
bitznarf 03-08-07, 07:54 PM	IThere's also the fact the entire mod was 23 pages long, had no maps, no plot, and no NPC interaction...:D Ah, Kusnir. Our party didn't even get into a fight. We managed to convince the Olmans(?) to send a few warriors with us (going to rescue his.. wife? and all), and intimidate the other NPC's into surrendering. [/hijack]
Howie23 03-08-07, 11:42 PM	I know the middle one was Rizzo, were the other two? :D Red Tide was. BC was a mid-con zero for the judges who were running the next round. David
Rerednaw 03-09-07, 12:05 AM	A question to those of you that have played most of the parts out there: How long has each taken you? And a followup: do you feel that it should/could have gone longer/shorter? -James We just finished Part 1. It took us about 14 hours total. I would say would probably could have done it in about 8 hours. But if it isn't a game day our group tends to be a bit more casual and we have side-bar discussions. We also spent some time on the roleplaying parts which we could have simply 'diplomacized/intimidated/brain drained' away. I will say though that the module so far has been tough. If you are playing with a group that acts more like the Justice League instead of the X-Men when it comes to teamwork, it will get pretty ugly.
Quntor 03-09-07, 12:43 AM	Oh, we have been having a blast! Our group just has good tactics. A few well placed grease lets the full power attacking barbarians down prone opponents easily and plenty of tanglefoot bags makes htings easier as well. We are by no means an overpowered group. The DM IS prepped, and so are we. We work well together as a group. Our tactics are sound. I don't se ehow that ruins the experience. :) We have only played the 1st chapter. We have a very good DM and he keeps things moving. It took us about 12 hours. We are an APL 7.00 group with some very experienced players with well-played characters. IMHO there is NO WAY this chapter could be played properly in 4 hours. I am sure you are having a blast. Getting 3600XP in 4 hours may seem cool but I guarantee your DM is not running it the way it is intended to be run. Do you really believe the Circle meant for you gain 3600 XP in a single session? Just my opinion though.
Madfox11 03-09-07, 04:08 AM	There's also the fact the entire mod was 23 pages long, had no maps, no plot, and no NPC interaction...:D How that made it through editing, I don't know (well, I have my suspicions, but they're quite biased ;))... The adventure is written with a particular style of gaming in mind, a style you apparently do not enjoy as much as others. I have seen a lot of people actually compliment the adventure because it gave the DM so much freedom. I myself have seen worse, and I have seen better ;) Personally I dislike fast speed DMs not when they rush through sure-victory combats, but when they do so through difficult combats and even more when they cut-short all attempts at role-playing interaction between the PCs and the between the NPCs and PCs. I have had them a couple of times, and each time they left me with a dissatisfied feeling. To each his own I guess... and I think it requires a lot of speeding up if you want to finish part 1 or 2 in 4 hours and unless you know you and your players belong to that group it is much saver to assume 8 to 14 hours for the parts then 4-8 ;)
King Kashue 03-09-07, 07:19 AM	The adventure is written with a particular style of gaming in mind, a style you apparently do not enjoy as much as others. I have seen a lot of people actually compliment the adventure because it gave the DM so much freedom. I myself have seen worse, and I have seen better ;) You've written better :D My favorite module ever in LG was the Prisoner. Open ended gaming is what I enjoy the most. Hearing how different groups tackled the issue in the Prisoner was so interesting (wild variety of tactics). Thinking I don't enjoy it is as far from the truth as is possible, I love it... But the difference is, you gave the DM the information that allowed them freedom. Kusnir was almost utterly lacking in detail. It didn't even have a fully articulated plot, so the DM could even guess what was supposed to happen. And a module where attacking a compound is most likely necessary, and then not mapping it out well? Inexcusable... And I have not heard a single positive comment on Kusnir, so our experiences are different there (and again, most people I've talked to like open ended mods)... And I don't want to be too negative, but it's honest, so yeah...But it's not the first poor mod from that author (I won't name him, but obviously people can just go look it up if they want, but naming seems rude)...I know almost a dozen people who vowed to never play his modules again...If I hadn't been zeroing for GenCon, I wouldn't have played it.
Cardinal Teplin 03-09-07, 10:11 AM	I had no problem with the structure of Kusnir. I enjoyed playing it, and enjoyed running it. The only thing that bothered me about it was that the person who hired the PCs was so objectionable, as was so much of the background. I don't tend to like gore. But each to their own.
Howie23 03-09-07, 10:43 AM	But the difference is, you gave the DM the information that allowed them freedom. Kusnir was almost utterly lacking in detail. It didn't even have a fully articulated plot, so the DM could even guess what was supposed to happen. And a module where attacking a compound is most likely necessary, and then not mapping it out well? Inexcusable... And I have not heard a single positive comment on Kusnir, so our experiences are different there (and again, most people I've talked to like open ended mods)... I tried to prep Kusnir twice, and found that I could not. I never ran it as a result. Were this a home play environment, I would have filled in the blanks and would have been ok. Within the LG world, I felt constrained in the need to communicate the author's intent when I could not discern that intent. One of your locals really enjoyed running this mod for a group up here, KK, and the table really enjoyed playing it. It was possible. I guess I didn't have the combination of imagination and particular view of the campaign's structure to both fill in the blanks in a manner that completed what was needed, and gave internal permission to do so. David
Tarlyn Alurach 03-10-07, 05:56 PM	I ran RHoD last weekend and it took us about 9 hours. Mostly because it was just dropped in my lap. Me: So who's running today? P1: You are. Me: No. Really. Who's running? P2: You are. Me: Crap. Last email I got from the head of our local area, he was looking for players. That was on an Thursday. The night before, I had asked him to give me at least a week's head's up so I could get the mod from the other DM. We're tag teaming this one because we had played it as a home camapign. I'm playing it because I missed most of the home campaign because I was out to sea for the most part and our DM moved to Japan. Lucky for us, I had really only played the first chapter and some of the combat in the second and third. We could have run it faster because they had two flying tigers that they buffed out toward the end.
Howie23 03-10-07, 06:30 PM	We're tag teaming this one because we had played it as a home camapign. I'm playing it because I missed most of the home campaign because I was out to sea for the most part and our DM moved to Japan. Lucky for us, I had really only played the first chapter and some of the combat in the second and third. Judging any of it makes you ineligible to play any of it at a later date. You can tag team judge it (more than one judge), but the judges cannot change off as players. Unfortunate, but there it is. David
Tarlyn Alurach 03-10-07, 08:46 PM	Well....Crap...
katrick 03-14-07, 01:46 PM	we played part 1 in two sessions of about 3 hrs each combats were fairly quick and roleplay was generally avoided best CHA 8 but both late night after another game. a different group played the whole thing in two whole weekends(sat\sun 9-25:00) finished about 4 on the second sunday in part 1 it takes more than an hour just to read the block text as a straight up read (not out loud) so with the total avoidance of combat and roleplay and fight avoidance planning, 4 hrs seems a liitle tight, even in great circumstances (obviously Dim Door and teleport change things but not by much) and teleport should be beyond the APL +3 limit now at least more than once in part three it would be possible to halve your time. but not unless you spent the extra time in part one. there are also extra bits which can be thrown in and random encounters which make up the extra EL's so i would think that unless you had run this at DWARF with deaf players that use sign language (who generally do all mods in about 45mins)then i would think you missed something or your GM allows a whole bunch of "its already said and done tactics" stuff ie auto Greyhawk not spend an hour to Identify etc which many do with a regular group either way good work that you smashed it!! how did you go with Hellspike Prison have you played Tiger in Ahlyssa or The plot which should not be Known? how did they go katrick
GrahamWills 03-16-07, 03:21 PM	The median time for part I, from this list and from the RHOD-GM list, seems to be in the region of 10-12 hours. I ran in 11, and yes, I can see running it in 4 hours. It requires (i) a low level of roleplaying (ii) one or more of great PC tactics, overwhelming the APL, or lousy GM tactics. Without spoilers, there are at least 4 decent roleplaying situations which I would not resolve in less than 2 hours total, as well as several minor ones. If your players are more tactical miniatures players, you can resolve a whole town encounter as "you step into X, which is a normal Y sized fantasy town. On finding Z, they give you A and tell you to look for B". For my group, they spent time choosing where to stay, resolving the plot hooks I had to start the adventure, chatting to townfolk and the like. Half an hour "wasted time" for the tactical miniatures crowd. I think our total time was 3 hours roleplaying. I would rate us as "average" in roleplaying. If your group likes RP more, plan for more time. Combat: Our group was slightly over level, but no plans seemed to work really well and I was playing monsters pretty nastily. If I had had the monsters just wade-in attack in standard mode, I could have shaved up to a couple of hours play time off. If your GM likes to play opposition that falls back, hides, stalls for time while other monster's timed items recharge and the like, then I think your experiences would be closer to mine. There are 3-4 serious fights. I had them all pre-drawn (or in one case, pre-modelled in 3D with Crystal Caste stuff). Each took an hour to 90 minutes. In a fight with 20+ opposition, each taking move and standard actions most of the time, divided into different initiative groups; unless your party kills a lot fast, it will take some time. 3-4 serious fights should take about 3 hours with a mix of great and average play. My group was a little less focused and played more tactically than most, so we took 5 hours or so on combat. There were also about 6 other minor encounters whcih totalled about an hour. 3 hours roleplaying, 5 hours combat, 1 hour boxtext, 1 hour misc smaller encounters. We played for 11 hours so I guess 1 hour misc extra, which seems reasonable. If I had a low-roleplaying group, cut that by 3. With good party tactics and better luck, we could have saved 2 hours. With unimaginative monsters, lose another 1. Skim the descriptions and tighten up the slack time for another hour. That gets us just in the 4 hour mark. So yep, doable. Just not for my group and my GM style. YM *WILL* V. PS: My party skipped some things and I narrated over some others. So don't assume if you play RHOD you can tally up the encounters above for a total time or # of encounters. There could easily have been 10 more encounters. Yes. Seriously.
Tarlyn Alurach 03-16-07, 06:50 PM	Part 1 is great from the roleplaying aspect. Even with no prep time, I got the PC's involved. I hope. Combat went really fast because we had, not one, but TWO--2--flying tiggers. Even with me trying to extend the combat, I think the longest it went was 4 rounds. And that was because they had to chase a couple down. One guy felt so bad about what he did, he switched characters.
garyjohnson 03-17-07, 06:55 PM	I ran our first session of RHoD last night - 4 hours of playing time. I started the PCs in Istivin,, and they travelled through the Vale, so that they had a sense of who and what was there (which means they'll have a more concrete idea of what they're defending once they realise exactly what the plot arc is going to be, what resources are available to them in the various settlements, and so on). The last hour of the session was dealing with the very first encounter. ;) I've budgeted 25 4-hour sessions, or 100 hours of playing time, for RHoD. That takes us up to early November, so we still have 2 months if we run overlength, miss sessions because players are away, and so on. Cheers, Gary Johnson
pimeister 03-26-07, 08:16 AM	Part 1: 10 hours of play due to a party that just cant seem to kill things quickly. lvl 5 Marshal lvl 6 Wizard/druid lvl 5 Warmage. lvl ? Wizard/Arcane Disciple who only knows 1 arcane spell of shorter than min/level duration, and that was magic missile lvl 7 Barbarian/Fighter. Only serious damage dealer. lvl 6 Hafling fighter. Archer with no access to extra damage for bow yet. I was laughing a lot through the encounters, and couldnt justify calling them due to the semi-fragility of the party, but they all came through without any worry through most combats. Part 2 went in about 5 hours of play . These times are not including breaks, pre- or post-game wrap up. Redhand's time varies GREATLY with party choices and it is quite possible for a group to godzilla the series through paths and effective combat. I find it hard to judge what will and wont go very quickly.
Timlagor 03-26-07, 09:03 AM	How did the Warmage fail to be a "serious damage dealer"?
jstorrie 03-26-07, 12:57 PM	My group did part one last week and we wrapped it in just under eight hours. We missed one side-track but otherwise found, explored and completed all elements of the module. The party composition was Cleric 9 (combat cleric) Paladin 4 / Marshal 1 (me) Swashbuckler 3 (tanglefoot bagger) Scout 2 / Rogue 2 / Barbarian 1 / Thief-Acrobat 1 / Wildrunner 1 (light infantry trapfinder) So a 9, a 7, a 5 and a 3. One encounter was significantly easier because the cleric could Flame Strike some enemies in a choke-point, but another was a near-TPK because we were simply outnumbered. Our Swash3 pal was surprisingly effective when we dumped all of our nets and tanglefoot bags into his pack. If you did all of the parts of the module and all of the random encounters, I could see this mod taking 9-11 hours, but no more than that.
MeepoTheMighty 03-26-07, 06:06 PM	If you did all of the parts of the module and all of the random encounters, I could see this mod taking 9-11 hours, but no more than that. Each part of the mod assumes that you'll be doing a certain number of random encounters in order to get full xp. I suspect a number of these groups that are plowing through the mod in 4 hours are forgetting that fact.
MerricB 03-27-07, 02:23 AM	At present... Part 1: 7 hours. Part 2: 8 hours Part 3: 10 hours Part 4: 8 hours. ...or thereabouts. Part 5 begins this Friday. :) Cheers!
ToddMorgan 03-27-07, 05:13 PM	Hey all, My group will start Red Hand this Sunday, the 1st of April. I doubt this party is balanced but we will have plenty of heals. Ftr 4 Ftr 5 Sor 5 Clr 6 Clr/Wiz/MysThr 7 Clr 8 I will be playing the Sorcerer. My character has a balance of offensive and defensive power and uses buff scrolls. Also probably the only ranged attacks with magic missles. Our APL is slightly above 6 so I'm thinking this will be a challenge, but I don't think we will die. Any advice as to scrolls I should be purchasing?
Haro 03-27-07, 09:06 PM	I will be playing the Sorcerer. My character has a balance of offensive and defensive power and uses buff scrolls. Also probably the only ranged attacks with magic missles. Our APL is slightly above 6 so I'm thinking this will be a challenge, but I don't think we will die. Any advice as to scrolls I should be purchasing? No spoilers but just load up on consumables. Your party is brutally short of ranged firepower by the looks. Don't assume just because you have clerics that you will be safe. Someone has to be doing the damage to make it worthwhile to heal them. Seriously, stock up on wands, scrolls, potions and not healing ones due to your party makeup. There's the potential to earn around 30k overall so don't be stingy! Joe
ToddMorgan 03-27-07, 10:07 PM	So what consumables? scrolls of invis, fly, web, haste?
Madfox11 03-28-07, 07:02 AM	Seriously, stock up on wands, scrolls, potions and not healing ones due to your party makeup. There's the potential to earn around 30k overall so don't be stingy! Just remember that you can only spend overcap if you already have the items and gold! During DDXP I run across several players who were honestly surprised to learn that things they bought at the start of the adventure were NOT from the overcap :rolleyes:
paigeoliver 03-28-07, 07:10 AM	Adaptables are generally good adventures to use consumables in because they very often actually give you about the amount of XP and gold you would have actually earned under the real D&D rules. Normal Living Greyhawk adventures tend to give about 1/3rd of the XP and gold you would have earned under the real D&D rules. The exact amount will vary from adventure to adventure. This has the side effect of making consumables cost effectively 3 times as much.
Madfox11 03-28-07, 07:41 AM	The caps of adaptables are exactly the same as with standard adventures. Hence your arguments only hold water if you spend the gold gained during the adventure for these goals or otherwise it still costs you gold. Note that most adventures have this overcap, it is just that in a standard adventure of 4 hours it becomes much more difficult to actually be able to spend/use those items you just found.
jstorrie 03-28-07, 07:13 PM	Each part of the mod assumes that you'll be doing a certain number of random encounters in order to get full xp. I suspect a number of these groups that are plowing through the mod in 4 hours are forgetting that fact. Hey, I have absolutely no complaints that our group didn't hit cap xp. Getting more gold than xp is a bonus, not a penalty!
pedr 03-28-07, 07:38 PM	I'm not sure it is in RHoD unless you're strong to start with or have spare TUs to do other adventuring. The module assumes you'll have received all the xp between the start and the end in order to be of suitable level by the final part's challenges.
pimeister 03-29-07, 12:25 AM	How did the Warmage fail to be a "serious damage dealer"? He didnt have 3rd level spells. the total damage potential for 3rd level spells vastly overshadows the warmage's 2nd and 1st lvl spells.
Japangirl 03-29-07, 12:57 AM	He didnt have 3rd level spells. the total damage potential for 3rd level spells vastly overshadows the warmage's 2nd and 1st lvl spells. Orbs and magic missiles from warmages can be pretty nasty, especially with the edge. I never got a warmage beyond 2nd, but the 1d8+2 at low levels rocked, and at 5th level it'd be 3d8+2 or 3d4+5 from magic missile, both pretty spammable. Second level spell would be Scorching Ray for 4d6+2. That's a lot of damage potential right there.
Rerednaw 03-29-07, 12:48 PM	Hi, Trying to avoid spoilers but a lot of information from Red Hand of Doom says to refer back to the RPGA website as it will all be posted by the end of 2006. Have I missed this and if so can anyone point me toward a link, or has this been delayed and as yet no extra info is out? Thanks Just out of curiousity, has there been an update to the OT? And off-topic...we're still looking forward to starting part 2.
Rerednaw 03-29-07, 12:50 PM	Orbs and magic missiles from warmages can be pretty nasty, especially with the edge. I never got a warmage beyond 2nd, but the 1d8+2 at low levels rocked, and at 5th level it'd be 3d8+2 or 3d4+5 from magic missile, both pretty spammable. Second level spell would be Scorching Ray for 4d6+2. That's a lot of damage potential right there. Yep...and if he stays alive long enough that's decent damage against a single target. I play a BFC/summoner and as a matter of personal preference, I like being able to defeat in detail far over battle spamming single targets. Doesn't always work of course.
jstorrie 03-29-07, 07:31 PM	I'm not sure it is in RHoD unless you're strong to start with or have spare TUs to do other adventuring. The module assumes you'll have received all the xp between the start and the end in order to be of suitable level by the final part's challenges. Don't worry about me. My APL-appropriate PCs are always strong to start.
bitznarf 03-29-07, 07:34 PM	Except when everyone else gets beat down fast, then you're weak. Fricken crits with subdual falchions before I can wake up.. *grumble*
Landale 03-30-07, 03:28 PM	We finished it over the 3-day New Year's Eve weekend. Difficult! And we had a REALLY balanced party. Starting out: Pal 6 (Smites bad things - keeps me safe!) Rog 5/Fig 1 (me - sneaky, trap disabling, front-line rogue with Improved Feint) Monk 6 (Grappler - he lets me sneak attack!) Clr 6/Eventually became RSoP 2 (He heals me...he prepares Recitation and close wounds...that's all he's allowed to prepare =D) Wiz 6 (illusionist - awesome) Barb 1/Fig 4/???/Occult Slayer 1 (smash smash smash, kill kill kill, and yet does not have Cleave...) I will say that RHoD was one of the funnest mods I've ever played, but MAN is it deadly. Just...be scared...fear will keep you alive! =D
King Kashue 03-30-07, 03:31 PM	Clr 5/RSoP 2 (He heals me...he prepares Recitation and close wounds...that's all he's allowed to prepare =D) Interesting build, since you can't take RSoP until 7th level :D
Landale 03-30-07, 03:48 PM	You're right, I was making a couple estimates in there of what people were. I know that he was EVENTUALLY a RSoP 2 during RH =D. In the meantime, just a cleric. Edited.
Rerednaw 03-30-07, 04:37 PM	We finished it over the 3-day New Year's Eve weekend. Difficult! And we had a REALLY balanced party...Wiz 6 (illusionist-awesome) ...I will say that RHoD was one of the funnest mods I've ever played, but MAN is it deadly. Just...be scared...fear will keep you alive! =D I have not played an illusionist in LG because of table variation on illusions and that they require a lot of adjucation. Glad to see it worked for your group. I'm assuming he was using on figments and phantasms, there are a lot of other nice spells from that school that are very useful (Glitterdust, Invis, Shadow Conjuration...)
Landale 03-30-07, 04:53 PM	After RH, he took the feats or prestige class to do the "shadow" spells. During RH, he had enlarge, glitterdust, invisibility sphere, greater invisibility, phantasmal killer, fly, a spell that threw an illusion over the entire group as disguise self, and a few other spells that I'm failing to recollect. It was definitely refreshing to play with a wizard that didn't specialize in evocation. Not that there's anything wrong with evokers, but it's nice to see something different once in a while.
King Kashue 03-30-07, 06:40 PM	Glitterdust is a conjuration, not an illusion...:D That's one of the reasons why it's so tasty...Because SR doesn't apply...