Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 02-27-07, 03:30 PM	I have a level 15 character with Draconic Heritage (CAr) and Draconic Power (CAr). In the lastest LGCS, these feats changed books from Complete Arcane to Races of the Dragon. I'm too cheap to buy the new book (especially since the feats are unchanged from CAr to RDr and the character is about to retire). What are my options? Can I retrain away the Draconic feats for free because they are now Closed? Or can I keep the CAr version of the Draconic feats since they are now NONC and I have campaign documentation (the old LGCS) giving me access to the CAr version of feats?
Jay_Ibero_911 02-27-07, 03:35 PM	I have a level 15 character with Draconic Heritage (CAr) and Draconic Power (CAr). In the lastest LGCS, these feats changed books from Complete Arcane to Races of the Dragon. I'm too cheap to buy the new book (especially since the feats are unchanged from CAr to RDr and the character is about to retire). What are my options? Can I retrain away the Draconic feats for free because they are now Closed? Or can I keep the CAr version of the Draconic feats since they are now NONC and I have campaign documentation (the old LGCS) giving me access to the CAr version of feats? First of all, the feats are OPEN. Second, as long as you have complete arcane on you, and the feats haven't changed at all in RotD, the DM would be a real ass hat not to let you use them, assuming a dm ever bothered to ask to see the book they are from to begin with...
catsclaw 02-27-07, 03:37 PM	Can I retrain away the Draconic feats for free because they are now Closed?They aren't closed. They've just had their reference updated to the latest published version.Or can I keep the CAr version of the Draconic feats since they are now NONC and I have campaign documentation (the old LGCS) giving me access to the CAr version of feats?You don't have access to the "CAr version", you have access to the feat, of which the canonical version is published in RotD. I don't believe there are any rules changes between the versions, and as such, I really don't think there's any problem whatsoever with your character. As long as you own either CAr or RotD, you should be fine.
Mithreinmaethor 02-27-07, 04:05 PM	The feats read exactly the same in both books so you are fine
bitznarf 02-27-07, 04:10 PM	The feats read exactly the same in both books so you are fine The fact that the 2 sources say the same thing really doesn't have much bearing on it. According to the RAW I see 2 options. Ken either cannot use the feats due to not owning the source book and thus must 'retrain' out of them, or he has access to the old version through the old LGCS, not the standard operating procedure when a new source is to be used. Edit2: Either way I don't see the feats as presented in the CAr as being NONC, they are replaced by the feats from RDr and are open.
copper_wyrmling 02-27-07, 04:38 PM	I asked about this on the LG Questions thread. We'll see what Britt says.
trollbill 02-27-07, 04:54 PM	Actually there is a difference between the Draconic Heritage feat in CAr and RotD, but it is a minor one. In RotD the feat gives you the Dragonblood subtype, which doesn't do much other than give access to a bunch of NONC feats and spells and lets you be affected by spells that specifically effect dragons (it doesn't give you the Dragon sub-type immunites, though). Since you are rebuilding the character, and it is now Open, you could switch to one of the evil draconic heritages if you were so inclined.
kjenks 02-27-07, 05:08 PM	Hmm. I'm in a bit of a pickle. The feats are clearly not Closed, so I can't retrain them for free, but I don't own the new book, so I'm not allowed to use the feats. LGCS 597, page 20 === Q: One of my feats, spells, classes, or items was changed, clarified, or Closed. Can I replace it? A: If a rules option is Closed, you will be allowed to change it immediately for free, using the rules for Retraining or Rebuilding in the PH2. If a rules option is changed or clarified, you may be given the same option, at the Circle’s discretion. You may also be given the option to replace related rules options, such as prerequisites, at the Circle’s discretion. ... === Page 11 === Owning the Book You must bring a copy of any rulebooks that contain rules options you are using for your PC. You may bring a photocopy of the rules options, as long as you own the rulebooks. You must inform your GM before the adventure of any rules options from rulebooks other than the core rulebooks. === I guess, since "a rules option is changed or clarified," I'd like to be given "the same option, at the Circle’s discretion."
Timlagor 02-27-07, 05:27 PM	I suspect you have 2 feats you can't use. I recommend applying to your triad for a discretionary free rebuild/retrain.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-27-07, 05:52 PM	I don't think you are gonna get a free retrain out of this. Either buy the new book, or keep playing your PC as is. Everyone knows what the feats do anyway, and if you have complete arcane on you no judge is gonna give it a second thought. Seriously, you are worrying WAY too much about this...
Fleetfang 02-27-07, 06:00 PM	I agree with Jay. You're either worrying way too much about this, or --as it is starting to sound more likely-- you just want to get rid of those feats and retrain them, but your PC is 15th level and will not get the chance to retrain by the rules. If it honestly is a money issue, and this really and truly has nothing to do with trying to cheese the system, PM me and I'm sure you and I can work out a way to get you the book that you need. Lord knows you've done plenty for the LG community with your spell lists. Seems time some folks helped pay you back for that. :) -FF
kjenks 02-27-07, 07:18 PM	On further reflection, I think that a private conversation with my Triad and Circle folks is in order. Thanks, folks!