Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suvarov454 05-06-07, 02:24 PM	Do sacred bonuses to AC apply to Touch attacks? What about Incorporeal Touch attacks? The SRD specifically states that Touch attacks ignore Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor bonuses. "All other modifiers" are supposed to apply to Touch attacks, but the SRD then specifically mentions Size, Dex, and Dodge bonuses. Enhancement bonuses specifically state they do not apply to Touch attacks. Dodge and Deflection bonuses specifically states that it applies to Touch attacks. Which of the following types of bonuses (which do not specify either way) apply to Touch attacks? The plain reading of the text suggests they all do (if you can find an item or class feature granting that type of bonus to AC). Also, which bonuses (that aren't also a force effect) apply to an Incorporeal Touch attack? Alchemical Circumstance Competence Insight Luck Morale Profane Sacred <unnamed>
ShinAkuma2 05-06-07, 07:04 PM	Touch attacks ignore the AC bonuses from Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor. That's it. Every other type of bonus applies. Sacred, Dodge, Alchemical...If it isn't from your Armor, Shield, or Natural Armor, it applies.
Timlagor 05-06-07, 07:59 PM	I can't see Alchemical applying to touch AC.
Alpha_Nerd 05-07-07, 01:35 AM	I can't see Alchemical applying to touch AC. Well, seeing how Touch only ignores armor, and Alchemical isn't armor, it does.
Sieylianna 05-07-07, 07:37 AM	Well, seeing how Touch only ignores armor, and Alchemical isn't armor, it does. Maybe. I would want to see the text of whatever is giving the alchemical bonus. If it's a substance applied to armor or clothing, I'd disallow it. Ed
haferka 05-07-07, 08:03 AM	- DISCLAIMER - NOT A FLAME - The alchemical substance forms a slippery film that prevents contact to the protected person... Just an example of a "justification" that i pulled out of my ***** ... Its not your job to create the rules and exceptions to them.. its your job to enforce them at any table that you DM. Alchemical Substances are typically expendable, expensive and minor.. don't hamper them even more simpy to "justify" your disbelieve that they would not work in a given situation...
KarmaInferno 05-07-07, 05:04 PM	Note that anything that modifies the value of worn armor, shields, or natural armor, rather than modifying the Armor Class directly, is treated as part of the thing it modifies, not as a seperate bonus. So a Magic Vestment modifies the Armor bonus that a suit of armor has, not Armor Class directly. So it does not apply to touch attacks. -karma
_metz_ 05-08-07, 01:30 AM	Note that anything that modifies the value of worn armor, shields, or natural armor, rather than modifying the Armor Class directly, is treated as part of the thing it modifies, not as a seperate bonus. So a Magic Vestment modifies the Armor bonus that a suit of armor has, not Armor Class directly. So it does not apply to touch attacks. -karma Exactly. If the alchemical bonus was a bonus to the armour - I would say it doesn't apply to touch attacks. If its a seperate "Alchemical bonus" that is not attached to an item, I would say it does.
Suvarov454 05-08-07, 08:53 PM	Thank you all for your opinions. That was how I was interpreting the rules for Touch attacks, and I haven't heard any dissenting voices... with the possible exception for the text of the alchemical bonus. Like _metz_, I'd carefully inspect the text to see if it provided an Alchemical enhancement to the Armor, Natural Armor, or Shield bonus, or if it applied separately. Seeing as none of the rulebooks I own mention such a bonus, the point is rather moot. As an aside, there is at least precidence in Complete Adventurer for an alchemical substance to allow a weapon to ignore the Incorporeal subtype's miss chance. I would expect that there is a substance somewhere allowing armor or a shield to affect an Incorporeal Touch attack (which I know is NOT the same as a Touch attack).
_metz_ 05-09-07, 02:18 AM	Ghost touch oil would do that trick, though that may be just for weapons. (from libris mortis i think)