Post/Author/DateTime	Post
robotdog 05-02-07, 07:55 PM	If you have magically enhanced scorpion claws... say +1... does this add to the +4 grapple check that the claws provide? Does it add to the touch attack you must make in order to attempt a grapple? scott.
King Kashue 05-02-07, 08:43 PM	If you have magically enhanced scorpion claws... say +1... does this add to the +4 grapple check that the claws provide? Does it add to the touch attack you must make in order to attempt a grapple? scott. No, and yes. The PHB states (and the FAQ clarifies) that a grapple check isn't an attack roll, so the bonus doesn't apply. The touch attack to initiate a grapple attempt is an attack roll (just like the touch attack to initiate a trip attempt) so it does apply. In the same vein, casting magic weapon or magic fang on a monks hands would add to the touch attack, but not the grapple check.
JJeff 05-02-07, 09:14 PM	I never really liked that ruling because it wouild mean that nonprofiency and size issues don't negatively affect the grapple check. A Medium PC who doesn't have proficiency in the Claws uses a Large version to grapple, taking -4 for non-prof and -2 for Size problems. but once he makes the touch attack (which isn't THAT hard even with the -6 penalty), he can grapple as effectively as a person that is proficient and would deal as much damage as a person who was large (assuming equal strength) but what the hey...
King Kashue 05-02-07, 09:39 PM	I never really liked that ruling because it wouild mean that nonprofiency and size issues don't negatively affect the grapple check. A Medium PC who doesn't have proficiency in the Claws uses a Large version to grapple, taking -4 for non-prof and -2 for Size problems. but once he makes the touch attack (which isn't THAT hard even with the -6 penalty), he can grapple as effectively as a person that is proficient and would deal as much damage as a person who was large (assuming equal strength) but what the hey... Well, I think the Scorpion Claws may be the stupidest weapon yet, start to finish, so this seems a minor thing (since it's trading -6 to hit for 1 point of damage, which seems a balanced trade, albeit for a moronic weapon).
JJeff 05-02-07, 10:26 PM	It does give bonuses to the grapple check (+4) and if you pick up the Large Version, you can go around grappling large creatures without much penalty in the grapple check especially if you have improved grapple even though you are not proficient in them.
King Kashue 05-02-07, 11:04 PM	It does give bonuses to the grapple check (+4) So does the medium size, and they give the same bonus no matter what size, so that's not relevant... and if you pick up the Large Version, you can go around grappling large creatures without much penalty in the grapple check especially if you have improved grapple even though you are not proficient in them. I'm still not seeing where the large size provides any benefit other than moving the damage die from a d6 to a d8... -With the medium version you can grapple large creatures. -Wity the large version you can grapple large creatures. -With the medium version you get +4 to grapple checks. -With the large version you get +4 to grapple checks. Using the large version doesn't mean you're treated as a large creature, so you still can't grapple huge creatures. Using the large version doesn't provide a size bonus in addition to the normal grapple bonus, so no difference there. The only difference I can see is that you take an extra -2 on the touch attack to hit, and you move the damage die from d6 to d8, and thus do 1 extra point of damage...
JJeff 05-03-07, 01:16 AM	Sorry. I didn't mean to say they are broken just because they are large or whatever. Just sick of my players buying them now that they are Open and grappling everything they see even though they are wrongly sized and non-proficient in them. Wish the penatlies would offset the bonuses cos else there's no reason why you shouldnt get them. Even if they can't get the large, it still is +4 to grapple above and beyond the Improved Grapple -6 to a melee touch attack is nothing at mid level and the bonuses to the grapple, any bonuses to a grapple, is always good.
solbergb 05-04-07, 06:06 PM	ok some things about these weapons. 1. They cover your hands and replace them with claws. You can't hold other weapons while weilding them, and putting them on/removing them is more awkward than drawing a weapon, most likely. Likewise fine manipulation probably is beyond someone wearing the claws. 2. They look really stupid 3. They do nothing for a grapple without spending a feat for proficiency. Says so right in the description, if memory serves. My monk who can cast "master's touch" to get proficiency bought some but he'd only consider actually equipping them if he knew that the next thing he expected to do was grapple something - generally a "kick down door" or "scry and fry" situation where the party somehow knows WHAT it is going to fight and WHO it is going to fight (and in my case also WHEN it is going to fight, master's touch only lasting a minute for me) A dedicated grappler can wear them most of the time and be all right, except for the myriad of opponents that are immune to grapple or just too big/strong for even a +4 to make a difference. Enforce the weapon switching rules strictly - these things have to be at least as hard to put on or stow as a locking gauntlet - there are two of them and they go over hands and either kind of ruins the hand for fine manipulation.
King Kashue 05-04-07, 07:43 PM	3. They do nothing for a grapple without spending a feat for proficiency. Says so right in the description, if memory serves. Nope. Nothing of the sort in the weapon entry.