Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blaznak 09-03-06, 06:17 PM	Well, I have access to a class: Shadowcaster. As a level 4 bard, my stats are actually pretty ok for the class. My question: Why? Why would ANYONE ever take this? 1d6 hp, 3 cantrips (albiet good cantrips) a day and 1 1st level per day. That's it. It goes VERY slowly up from there. I mean is the point of this the "presige classes"? Stat wise are they all that good? Appreciation of your thoughts on this in advance! Cheers, Jeffery A. Shield Lands Triad
Arvagor 09-03-06, 08:36 PM	I dunno... A chance to play a class that not everyone can get into, and a chance to play with something other than the Wiz/Sor spell mechanic. I have a pretty good idea where you may have gained access, so you might also want to check whether you get to use the "Creeping Darkness" rule on page 115 of ToM. Read closely, and you'll see that you also control how many bonus feats you can get out of the class...
Blaznak 09-03-06, 09:04 PM	I dunno... A chance to play a class that not everyone can get into, and a chance to play with something other than the Wiz/Sor spell mechanic. I have a pretty good idea where you may have gained access, so you might also want to check whether you get to use the "Creeping Darkness" rule on page 115 of ToM. Read closely, and you'll see that you also control how many bonus feats you can get out of the class... Yes, I saw that. I'm just REALLY chewing over whether its all that worth it to play something new. The problem, in my mind, is that the character is kind of an Anti-Sorcerer. MUCH MUCH smaller spell selection, MUCH MUCH less firepower per day, and, to top it off, the spells you get aren't THAT good. You kind of have to wait until you get 3rd/4th level mysteries to do much... The prestige classes are ok. Getting a Shadow Elemental as a pet is pretty cool.
Mommy was an Orc 09-03-06, 09:19 PM	I dunno... A chance to play a class that not everyone can get into, and a chance to play with something other than the Wiz/Sor spell mechanic. I have a pretty good idea where you may have gained access, so you might also want to check whether you get to use the "Creeping Darkness" rule on page 115 of ToM. Creeping Darkness doesn't work with Bards...
Arvagor 09-03-06, 11:00 PM	Creeping Darkness doesn't work with Bards...Yeah, I guess you're right... My brain was reading "sorcerer or wizard" and interpreting it as "arcane caster". Seeing as the "rule" is in a sidebar, and this is LG, it's probably considered an optional rule anyway, and not usable. Anyways, back to the topic... The mysteries advancement seems slow at first, but remember that the table on page 113 is how often you use each mystery each day. So at 5th level, sure you only know 5 mysteries, but you get each one once a day. I guess it just depends on where you want to take the PC. My main PC gained the Dark template recently; it just so happens he's a human rogue, so he benefits immensely from the acquisition (it kinda works out to gaining the first 2 levels of the shadowdancer PrC class for "free"). Now I just need to figure out where to take him from here...
Blaznak 09-04-06, 12:22 AM	Yeah, I guess you're right... My brain was reading "sorcerer or wizard" and interpreting it as "arcane caster". Seeing as the "rule" is in a sidebar, and this is LG, it's probably considered an optional rule anyway, and not usable. Actually, the AR reads differently. It says you can swap any arcane level out, like you were using the rules in TOM. The semi-unofficial ruling (Grin - I like the phrase semi-unofficial) suggests to run as written, so... warmage, etc. could use the AR to its full ability. Still, I'm not sure its worth the bother. Thanks for the clarification on "uses per day". That makes a LITTLE more sense. Still... Level 1 - 1 use per day. Level 2 - 1 use per day x 2 mysteries etc. Not really smokin' hot when you consider power levels and more utilitarian spells that wizzies and sorcerers get. Sigh.
Arvagor 09-04-06, 02:48 AM	Thanks for the clarification on "uses per day". That makes a LITTLE more sense. Still... Level 1 - 1 use per day. Level 2 - 1 use per day x 2 mysteries etc. Not really smokin' hot when you consider power levels and more utilitarian spells that wizzies and sorcerers get. Sigh.Are you gonna be a blaster? No, not really; many of the mysteries strike me as a support role. But there's certainly some interesting stuff in there... - Echo spell - repeats any spell cast by another person in the last round - Flesh Fails - deals 4 Str, 4 Dex, or 2 Con damage w/no save - Summon Umbral Servant - calls a shadow elemental to fight for you - Umbral Touch - can be pretty nasty, 5d6 dmg + slowed Those are just some of the fun mysteries. I think chosen wisely, it could certainly be a fun class to play, esp. since you're slightly beefier than a Wiz (d6) along with the other special class abilities. If I had a caster w/ access, I'd try it out ;)
Mommy was an Orc 09-04-06, 12:00 PM	Actually, the AR reads differently. It says you can swap any arcane level out, like you were using the rules in TOM. The semi-unofficial ruling (Grin - I like the phrase semi-unofficial) suggests to run as written, so... warmage, etc. could use the AR to its full ability. Still, I'm not sure its worth the bother. Thanks for the clarification on "uses per day". That makes a LITTLE more sense. Still... Level 1 - 1 use per day. Level 2 - 1 use per day x 2 mysteries etc. Not really smokin' hot when you consider power levels and more utilitarian spells that wizzies and sorcerers get. Sigh. Wow. That's pretty bizarre(and broken) if they did it that way - especially as Bard has d6 for hit points and 6 skill points per level. Let's say you decide to go Shadowcaster - you take 4 straight levels of it(using up your Bard levels), then you alternate taking a level of Bard and a level of Shadowcaster. That gives you a few extra hit points and a lot of extra Bard skills - you can even maintain whatever Bard skills you find important...while getting full Shadowcaster progression. I don't think it is broken broken(unless that's true of Shadowcaster in the 1st place), but there's decent incentive for someone who started with Wizard or Sorcerer to alternate levels of Bard and then Shadowcaster/Creeping Darkness. Which is just wrong.
chrispedersen 09-09-06, 10:22 PM	Shadow Caster is actually quite strong. You'd have to use the creeping feature to go pure shadow caster. You get bonus feats = paths/2. There are strong mysteries that can essentially drop any NPC fast. For example, one mystery that drains d6+1 per level wisdom. Quicken, maximize it, and follow up with an empwoered regular in the same round... Similiarly shapable difficult terrain, electrical storm... sure .. theres a lot of dross - but there are at least two solid paths at each mystery level.