Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 04-12-07, 09:53 AM	deleted...found it!
KarmaInferno 04-12-07, 06:00 PM	Note the rule about size stacking only applies to size changes brought about by spells. Non-magical size stacking is not covered, and technically is allowed by the wording in the LGCS. So, you can have one spell that increases your size category, along with your equipment, like Enlarge Person. If you also have something else that IS NOT A SPELL that increases your size or your weapon's size, technically it should stack with the Enlarge. -karma
King Kashue 04-12-07, 06:26 PM	Note the rule about size stacking only applies to size changes brought about by spells. Non-magical size stacking is not covered, and technically is allowed by the wording in the LGCS. So, you can have one spell that increases your size category, along with your equipment, like Enlarge Person. If you also have something else that IS NOT A SPELL that increases your size or your weapon's size, technically it should stack with the Enlarge. -karma The issue is "magical" size changes, not "spell" size changes...Supernatural abilities are magical... You'd have to have some sort of extraordinary ability to change size (and I can't actually think of one off hand)...
KarmaInferno 04-12-07, 08:12 PM	It should really say "magical" then, shouldn't it? As written, only spells are specified. I suppose Monkey Grip count as an extraordinary, though technically it's not a size adjustment - the weapon isn't made bigger by the feat, it starts out bigger. -karma
magebeast 04-12-07, 09:24 PM	It should really say "magical" then, shouldn't it? As written, only spells are specified. I suppose Monkey Grip count as an extraordinary, though technically it's not a size adjustment - the weapon isn't made bigger by the feat, it starts out bigger. -karma Or you could, you know, read the description of enlarge person which says "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."
King Kashue 04-13-07, 12:21 AM	Or you could, you know, read the description of enlarge person which says "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack." Beat me to it...:D If you're gonna be sarcastic, better make sure you're right :P
KarmaInferno 04-13-07, 04:49 PM	Bah. Teach me to post without looking up every part of the question. Still, anyone come up with any other non-magical size increase abilities? I found one: A Shield can be used to make Shield Bash attacks. Let's assume a Heavy Shield for this example, base damage 1d4. If you have Monkey Grip, you should be able to use a heavy shield one size larger. This ups the shield to size Large, doing 1d6 base damage. Shield Spikes are a non-magical add-on to a shield "that increases the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger". This should bump the Heavy Shield to 1d8 base damage, effectively size Huge. "Bashing" is a magical enhancement that increases the effective size by two categories when used in a shield bash. (resulting in an effective size of Colossal doing 3d6 base damage for that heavy shield) This would be the one magical size increase. Unfortunately by the RAW a shield bash is always an off-hand attack, so only receives half of any strength bonus you have. So you might as well get it animated, so you can use a two-handed weapon as your primary attack. Size Large, of course, as you already have Monkey Grip. I may have to make a new character and call him "The Turtle". Carries his shell around with him, you see. :D Maybe get the Throwing and Distance enchantments eventually as well, the thought of doing an oversize Captain America appeals to me. -karma
Zanzibax 04-13-07, 05:02 PM	Bah. Teach me to post without looking up every part of the question. Still, anyone come up with any other non-magical size increase abilities? -karma So Wildshape and enlarge person do not stack?
bitznarf 04-13-07, 05:03 PM	That is correct. You could wildshape into something medium and then get enlarged however.
Eric Anondson 04-13-07, 08:01 PM	Unfortunately by the RAW a shield bash is always an off-hand attack, so only receives half of any strength bonus you have.Not so according to the FAQ. Q: Can a character make a shield bash attack using the shield as a primary weapon or can it be used only as an off-hand weapon? A: While the rules describe a shield bash as an off-hand weapon, that’s simply an assumption (that your primary hand is holding a weapon). There’s nothing stopping you from declaring your shield bash as your primary weapon. Of course, that means that any attack you make with your other hand becomes a secondary weapon.
KarmaInferno 04-13-07, 09:46 PM	So, even better! Full strength bonus! Heck, wield it two handed with Power Attack. Or dual wield. Probably want Improved Shield Bash in there somewhere. Hmm... -karma
Eric Anondson 04-13-07, 10:57 PM	My character that is about to retire does exactly that. Its been a lot of fun, quite different. Although twice over the many years rules specific to shield bashing have changed, so I have had to be well versed in it. From 3.0 to 3.5, Divine Shield changed. About a year ago the FAQ overruled itself and changed a previous ruling on how shield spikes work.
KarmaInferno 04-15-07, 02:28 AM	Okay, that settles it. I'm re-creating Captain Thunder, my old Living City shield-slinging superhero, in Greyhawk. Maybe he fell through a dimensional rift or something, getting killed along the way enough times to end up at first level. :D -karma
KarmaInferno 04-16-07, 11:42 AM	I found another one! Improved Natural Attack, from the DMG. Definitely works on Monks and animal-form Druids, other classes more iffy. Non-magical effective size increase to Natural Weapons, stacks with other non-magical size increases to the same and a single magical size increase. Captain Thunder Lives! =D -karma
King Kashue 04-17-07, 12:57 AM	I found another one! Improved Natural Attack, from the DMG. Definitely works on Monks and animal-form Druids, other classes more iffy. Non-magical effective size increase to Natural Weapons, stacks with other non-magical size increases to the same and a single magical size increase. Captain Thunder Lives! =D -karma Yes, monks can take that feat (and it's nice at higher levels), but that's not a "non-magical size increase"... It makes the damage die for your attacks larger, not the character him/herself (it doesn't even make their claws/paws/bite/etc larger, just the die)...
KarmaInferno 04-17-07, 03:36 AM	By that logic, neither are the Shield Spikes I mentioned, nor is the Bashing enchantment. Eh. It's legal either way. I found another improvement for the Colossal Shield Fighter. The Dwarven Buckler-Axe, which starts out doing 1d6 base damage. Technically, there's no rules forbidding the addition of both Shield Spikes and the Bashing Enchantment. And since it's a light shield, a Size Large version is still one-handed, removing the need for Monkey Grip. Which is a good thing, because you'll need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use it properly. With all that, it's a buckler doing, er... what's the next size increase past 3d6? The PHB size table does not say. -karma
King Kashue 04-17-07, 03:46 AM	By that logic, neither are the Shield Spikes I mentioned, nor is the Bashing enchantment. Correct...Neither of those are either. It's describing a change in the size of the character. From small to medium, medium to large, etc. Changing the die doesn't change the size of the character, and it isn't at all what Enlarge Person is talking about. With all that, it's a buckler doing, er... what's the next size increase past 3d6? The PHB size table does not say. 4d6. It's in the DMG, p. 28.
KarmaInferno 04-17-07, 09:48 AM	Hmm. I really should have been doing more damage with my Warshaper, then. I always assumed the damage die adjustment portion of the Morphic Weapon ability didn't stack with stuff like Enlarge Person. Too late now. He retired last year. -karma
katrick 04-17-07, 02:12 PM	ahh did anyone read the posts about monks and evasion? according to the powers that be ,as if,counts as, acts like etc. all mean the same thing and therefore they do act like a size increase.(against my veritable witt) Although, i really like the idea of using a size medium heavy spiked bashing shield and a size medium light spiked bashing shield with two weapon fighting, for my halfling. Make the Shield Spikes wooden or Darkwood and then cast Spikes on them?? Now she rides in on her riding dog, after sending her animal companion (riding dog) in for the flank, makes her guide with knees check(auto), auto makes her Fight with warhorse check, improved Shield bash for AC, and still has +1 to hit at 1st level doing 1d4+1 and 1d6+1, plus both dogs. Just wait till she gets Craft Magic Arms and armor and Sneak attack. Keep up the good work, you might even make some other peoples characters viable!! Katrick
King Kashue 04-17-07, 02:56 PM	Hmm. I really should have been doing more damage with my Warshaper, then. I always assumed the damage die adjustment portion of the Morphic Weapon ability didn't stack with stuff like Enlarge Person. Too late now. He retired last year. -karma It wouldn't have worked anyway, since at the time, wildshape and polymorph both changed your type. Enlarge Person only works on humanoids, not on anything else. :D
KarmaInferno 04-17-07, 04:13 PM	He was a Master of Many Forms as well, so humanoid shape wasn't a problem for him. Technically he's still viable - the High Level campaign is on the 596 rules still. I just can't seem to get the opportunity to play any DM's Challenges. -karma
King Kashue 04-17-07, 05:00 PM	He was a Master of Many Forms as well, so humanoid shape wasn't a problem for him. But you'd have to change into another medium humanoid. Which is pretty damn useless except for something like Trog to get nat armor, but at that point you're basically using alter self...Duplicating a 2nd level spell is not the best use of a 15th level ability...
KarmaInferno 04-20-07, 09:38 PM	Yah, not a lot of viable forms that are really worth it. Huh. I noticed two things. First, that Dwarven Buckler Axe might not work. Re-reading it, it never actually states you use the Shield Bash action to attack with it. This meshes with the rule that bucklers cannot be used in a Shield Bash, but you can wield another weapon on the buckler hand and attack with that other weapon. So really, the buckler axe is merely a buckler with that "other weapon" permanently attached. Upshot is that the attack isn't a Shield Bash, and so should not gain any benefits of the Bashing enchantment or shield spikes. Second, Agile Shield Fighter specifically replaces the normal two-weapon fighting penalties (normally -6 onhand /-10 offhand) with a -2/-2, when attacking with a Shield Bash and another melee weapon. Two Weapon Fighting reduces the penalties for fighting with two weapons by 2 onhand and 6 offhand. If you have both feats, do the effects stack? Net penalty to each hand being zero? If the shield is light, does the usual benefit apply, lessening the 'normal' penalties by two for having a light weapon in the offhand? Hmm... -karma
Timlagor 04-21-07, 07:06 AM	[I didn't check the wording for myself and am basing this purely on the post above] They don't stack because the TWF penalties have been replaced with a -2. Reducing the TWF penalties becomes irrelevant because they aren't applied any more.
KarmaInferno 04-21-07, 09:07 AM	I can see that, that's a reasonable arguement. But given the FAQ statement about effects happening in whatever order is most beneficial, if you claim Agile Shield Fighter first and then one of the other reducers, it could go the other way. -karma
Timlagor 04-21-07, 09:15 AM	I was thinking that the ASF penalty is a different penalty to which the TWF Feat simply doesn't apply. I haven't checked the wroding of ASF to see if that might be true though (it's not something I have any current intention of using) -it also seems unlikely to me that they intended them to stack.
KarmaInferno 04-21-07, 09:35 AM	"When making a shield bash and armed strike attack as part of a full attack action, you take a -2 penalty on each attack. These penalties replace the normal ones you incur for fighting with two weapons." Eh. Either way, it's only a -2 penalty, I could live with the table variation. -karma