Post/Author/DateTime	Post
clannagh 05-16-07, 07:57 PM	For fluff reasons I want to use Chordevec (tiny birds with fly-by-attack) as a low EL harassment in an intro mod. Fly-by-attack, unlike spring attack or ride-by-attack does not exempt the attacker from AoO. Benefit When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack. Normal Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move. The problem is it would seem that a tiny creature would need to enter the square of an opponent to attack and hence take an AoO as it exits. I could make them a swarm but would really prefer not to. Clearly a dire eagle with its 10' reach overcomes the problem when attacking medium creatures but thats a touch excessive in an intro. Is there any way a small or tiny bird can use its fly-by-attack without immediately getting swatted ?
Eric Anondson 05-16-07, 08:36 PM	Is there any way a small or tiny bird can use its fly-by-attack without immediately getting swatted ?I can't think of anything, though swarms can be effective if the beasts are Diminutive or smaller; their immune to weapon damage. Tiny swarms take half damage from slashing or piercing.
JJeff 05-16-07, 08:53 PM	The only way so far is to have the targets of the fly-by flat-footed and thus not legal for AoO unless they have Combat Reflexes or whatnot. The easiest way to do this is to have the attack happen while the players are balancing on something (grease, log bridge, etc) since you are considered flat-footed while balancing (unless you have 5 ranks of Balance, but since this is an Intro Mod....). Hope that won't be too cruel to level 1 characters...
clannagh 05-16-07, 09:07 PM	The only way so far is to have the targets of the fly-by flat-footed and thus not legal for AoO unless they have Combat Reflexes or whatnot. The easiest way to do this is to have the attack happen while the players are balancing on something (grease, log bridge, etc) since you are considered flat-footed while balancing (unless you have 5 ranks of Balance, but since this is an Intro Mod....). Hope that won't be too cruel to level 1 characters... thanks for that .. flat footed is a very good point .. and the party will in fact be in just such a situation unfortunately the critters do not have advancement in their stat block or I would have just given them a 2nd hit dice to chunk them out a bit
Howie23 05-16-07, 09:24 PM	Is there any way a small or tiny bird can use its fly-by-attack without immediately getting swatted ? Small critters don't have a problem. Tiny ones do. A low-tech way to avoid getting swatted is to be the 2nd bird. :) David
King Kashue 05-16-07, 09:43 PM	Small critters don't have a problem. Tiny ones do. A low-tech way to avoid getting swatted is to be the 2nd bird. :) David No, small critters do, since in almost every instance they're moving out of a threatened square after they attack...
Howie23 05-16-07, 10:41 PM	No, small critters do, since in almost every instance they're moving out of a threatened square after they attack... Ok, agreed. They have the departure AoO, but not the entering square AoO. David
JamesMaissen 05-16-07, 10:43 PM	The problem is it would seem that a tiny creature would need to enter the square of an opponent to attack and hence take an AoO as it exits. I could make them a swarm but would really prefer not to. Is there any way a small or tiny bird can use its fly-by-attack without immediately getting swatted ? Well first it would provoke for entering the square (as it would leave the threatened adjacent square) not exiting it, so it could be dropped before it even gets to attack. Second, for a small bird that could attack from adjacent you could have them attacking from cover and thus leaving there would not provoke. Third a swarm's movements still provoke. Other advice has already been given in regards to those without combat reflexes only get one AOO a round and not even that if flatfooted. The only other situation could be if the attackers somehow had full concealment. Becareful in intros though as dice rolls can account for alot there in either direction. -James
Arvagor 05-16-07, 10:46 PM	unfortunately the critters do not have advancement in their stat block or I would have just given them a 2nd hit dice to chunk them out a bitI was going to suggest a rank in Tumble, but if they're not advanced, it's a moot point (since you can't change the base creature's skills/feats/etc.)
King Kashue 05-16-07, 10:50 PM	Second, for a small bird that could attack from adjacent you could have them attacking from cover and thus leaving there would not provoke. But really, how many situations are there going to be where a fly-by-attacking bird is going to have hard cover available?
Timlagor 05-17-07, 01:59 AM	You can still advance them even if they don't have an entry.. it just means that you're 'winging it' and they are particularly unusual. I'd think that having lots of them to make up for the fact that they are going to get massacred by a party of armed adventurers would make sense and let people make good use of the Cleave and CReflexes. (I'm assuming that these things are wimpy -if not you could make them babies ;) Players enjoy killing things so just give them lots of targets :D That will also seriously reduce the arbitrary effect of the dice. Be sure to playtest thoroughly and have a tactics section telling the GM to go after eveyone in the party indiscriminately.
_metz_ 05-17-07, 04:02 AM	Swarms work, as long as the creatures are bigger than diminutive. (immunity to weapon damage is killer in an intro) I think having the adventurers trek through some wet snow that has the same effect as Grease would work rather well, or some other suitable environmental hazard. In the tactics section you could have the birds even go after the one with the most shiny jewels.../other shiny things