Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Howie23 06-05-07, 04:46 PM	Spell resistance seems to be treated as a mixed blessing. Some have avoided Monk13 for that reason, and armor with SR is generally seen in a negative light. Ran across this tidbit in the DMG re: spell resistance, and wonder if it changes anything, or if there are builds for which it becomes useful. If a creature has spell resistance, the SR does not stop his own spells or items. So, a creature with SR can still heal and buff himself, or make use of wands, potions, scrolls, etc., as they are his items. David
Haro 06-05-07, 07:22 PM	I believe the resistance to Monk 13 is that he cannot accept Haste or similar buffs from party members. It is not so much a self buffing issue. With regard to the armour enhancements, the SR is just too low for the cost... Joe
Timlagor 06-05-07, 09:27 PM	You need a lot of SR for it to be any use at all and even more to make it worth losing out on party Buffs (especially with a Monk who likely has lots of attacks for any bonus damage to apply to). That said there are people who find the Monk SR useful and they can still use potions at least. (you also have the option of lowering your SR as a standard action)
Howie23 06-05-07, 10:43 PM	(you also have the option of lowering your SR as a standard action) Yeah, but it takes repeated std actions to keep it down, else it pops back up. David
Madfox11 06-06-07, 04:30 AM	Yeah, but it takes repeated std actions to keep it down, else it pops back up. David Makes you wonder whether it would be a good idea to allow some kind of feat that allows a creature to lower it as a move equivalent action ;)
ShinAkuma2 06-06-07, 08:03 PM	It doesn't make it impossible to accept buffs. It's not like the buffer can't ever make a caster level check on a non-harmful spell. The way I figure it, as a Monk, at least, you're at least twice as fast as most of your allies. Just take a move action and a "lower SR" action for every double move your allies take outside of combat. That way, should a fight start, you start with your SR lowered and ready to accept the first round's buffs (assuming your allies go before you).
Madfox11 06-07-07, 04:00 AM	It doesn't make it impossible to accept buffs. It's not like the buffer can't ever make a caster level check on a non-harmful spell. Yeah, but if you are at 1 hit point next to the BBEG you really do not want to have 50% chance the heal spell fails. The way I figure it, as a Monk, at least, you're at least twice as fast as most of your allies. Just take a move action and a "lower SR" action for every double move your allies take outside of combat. That way, should a fight start, you start with your SR lowered and ready to accept the first round's buffs (assuming your allies go before you). I understand what you mean, but when discussing game terminology it is best to call a standard action a standard action even if you just use it for movement ;) Mind you, it wouldn't work if you are first of the round since it kicks back in at the start of your turn and monks do tend to have the better initiatives.
trollbill 06-07-07, 01:58 PM	I have a 15th-level monk in a non-LG campaign and so far it has done him zero good. I haven't had an enemy yet fail to make their SR check against me, and our party evoker, who usually catches me in her Fireballs because I am always in the middle of the enemy, hasn't failed her SR check either. (Fortunately, Evasion and a good Reflex save protects me there.) On the other hand, despite the fact I am constantly using a Standard action to always keep my SR surpressed until we enter combat (but keeping up with the party with my move action since I have Monk speed). I have still failed to have benefited from many, many party buffs, and I can't wait for the time when our cleric fails her SR check to hit me with Delay Death. Makes me want clerics to get a spell called Orb of Healing
Britt 06-07-07, 02:23 PM	There's a feat in Drow of the Underdark that lets you drop your SR as, I believe, a swift action.
trollbill 06-07-07, 02:40 PM	There's a feat in Drow of the Underdark that lets you drop your SR as, I believe, a swift action. Greeeeeaaaat. Just what I need. Spend one of my precious feat slots so that my class "benefit" doesn't hurt my character as much.
_metz_ 06-08-07, 01:40 AM	I believe the resistance to Monk 13 is that he cannot accept Haste or similar buffs from party members. It is not so much a self buffing issue. With regard to the armour enhancements, the SR is just too low for the cost... Joe It works with pre encoutner buffs though - lower your shields, let em buff away, then go nuts. The issue is during combat buffs and healing.
Munkwunk 06-08-07, 02:41 AM	As a cleric with the Protection domain, I occasionally cast the "Spell Resistance" spell when I anticipate fighting enemy spellcasters. I'm starting to shy away from doing that though; rarely does the SR effect the enemy, and a few times it has kept me from being hasted by allied PCs (and when you're wearing heavy plate, you need every movement buff you can get). In my home game, I actually discourage my players from taking anything which will grant their characters SR. It really is more of an NPC ability.
Halworth 06-08-07, 10:32 AM	As a strength Monk with boots of speed(for the extra attack) I just don't rely on party buffs, With The Helm of glorious recovery, Wholeness of body, and a potion or two, I bring my own healing with me, Delay death? Watch where you go in combat, a monk is NOT a tank. SR has worked for me a couple times and worked against me a couple of times. In my mind it's only an issue for combat casting. I like the SR, I think it's a great part of the monk character, it shows how she is finding greater enlightenment and on her way to becoming an 'outsider' at 20th level. But if there is a spell you just can't live without, there is always Ring of spell storing which would by pass SR, as the spell is cast from the monk. Me I would rather save the slot for ring of water walking(I don't have it yet) How cool would it be to 4X (run) move over water to the ship on the horizon, or walk/run across the pool of acid/lava. Aaaahhh LG dreams.
trollbill 06-09-07, 11:27 AM	I hate to say this, but that all looks like a lot of bad strategic choices. As a strength Monk with boots of speed(for the extra attack) Okay, so far so good. I just don't rely on party buffs Somehow I just don't see spending additional resources that promote being a non-team player (not saying you are, just this philosaphy promotes being that way) all to compensate for the negative effects of a supposed class benefit means the benefit is beneficial. , With The Helm of glorious recovery, Wholeness of body, and a potion or two, I bring my own healing with me, All of which take a standard action to use, some of which provoke and none of which cure more damage than the monsters are likely to do to you in one round of battle at that level. In essense, you either just spend a round treading water, i.e. curing the same amount you take, or you have to withdraw from battle to not simply waste a round. I am sure the party healer would much rather be able to successfully cast Heal on you then be left fighting the monster themselves. Delay death? Watch where you go in combat, Yes, because we all know watching where you go in combat is the only thing you need to do at high levels to avoid taking fatal damage. a monk is NOT a tank. No, but depending on the build, it can be the next best thing. Since my 15th-level monk usually gets 6 attacks at 6d8+7 damage (Haste + Monk's Belt + Improved Natural Attack + Potion of Enlarge Person + 22 ST), I am likely to take full attacks from the monsters if they survive my own. At low levels I used to do a lot of dodging in and out amoungst the enemy ranks. At high levels, that just isn't cost effective. SR has worked for me a couple times and worked against me a couple of times. So you break even before you subtract all the resources you spent on not having to rely on other party buffs because they don't always work. In other words, you aren't even breaking even. In my mind it's only an issue for combat casting. That's true. Unfortunately, combat casting is the single most important form of casting. I like the SR, I think it's a great part of the monk character, it shows how she is finding greater enlightenment and on her way to becoming an 'outsider' at 20th level. My Monk has become enlightened too. He thought getting SR at 13th-level was uber-cool. Now he knows it blows. But if there is a spell you just can't live without, there is always Ring of spell storing which would by pass SR, as the spell is cast from the monk. Yes, let's spend even more resources countering our special ability. Me I would rather save the slot for ring of water walking(I don't have it yet) Which you could have had by now if you hadn't spent your money on things to counter your SR. Bottom line is that my monk had always had a better defense against the dark arts than has ever been afforded him by SR. Between Monks always wanting points in Con, Dex and Wis; having all saves good, Improved Evasion, Still Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Body and usually the highest Touch AC in the party, it has always been a rare day that an offensive spell has ever had much effect on my monk. I stated earlier that in two levels of play, SR has failed to stop a single magical attack on me. Yet I suffered no ill effects from any of them due to my many other abilities. If I were a straight fighter, I would probably be tickled pink to have SR because magical effects can really ruin a fighter's day. But for a monk who already has a high resistance to offensive magicks, it is a curse.
boolean 06-10-07, 05:26 AM	The other problem is encounter design. If the primary threat is an enemy offensive caster, they will often have a caster level of APL +2 or +3, if not more. A level 13 monk has SR 23. An APL 14 caster opponent will often have +17 or more to the spell penetration check, which means he only needs a 6 to beat the monk's SR. That's a 25% chance of failure. Meanwhile, your buddy the cleric (who is also level 13) needs a 10 to penetrate your SR. That's a 45% chance of failure. So, the conclusion I come to is that it's a class feature that is about twice as likely to get you killed as it is to save you.