Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jokem 07-19-06, 06:31 PM	Here is a series of questions which may have been asked already, but here goes. If a character gets 0 spells per day of a specific level, and does not have the ability score to get bonus spells of that level. Can the character still use scrolls, wands, etc without a caster check? If a character gets bonus spells due to the effect of a Stat Bump item, what happens to those bonus spell slots if the item's magic is temporarily supressed? Can stat bump spells (Owls wis, Foxs cun, Eags spl) allow the use of bonus spells while the stat bump spell is running? Does this also apply to lay on hands and undead turning/rebuke? What does the above do to characters who are only allowed to cast spells of a certian level due to the stat bump? Are spontaneous casters like sorcerers affected the same way by the above conditions as those who use prepared spells?
JamesMaissen 07-19-06, 10:47 PM	Here is a series of questions which may have been asked already, but here goes. If a character gets 0 spells per day of a specific level, and does not have the ability score to get bonus spells of that level. Can the character still use scrolls, wands, etc without a caster check? Your daily casting has NO relation to any of this. For wands: If the spell is on your spell list for any of your classes, you may use the wand. A 1st level ranger can use a wand of *ANY* spell on the ranger list.. *EVEN* if the wand was made by a wizard, or some other class. For Scrolls: You don't look at the spell per say but the caster level of the scroll. To whit if a 5th level sorcerer would need to make a caster check to read a scroll of magic missle at Caster Level 9.. but would not need to make a caster check to read a scroll of fireball at Caster Level 5. If a character gets bonus spells due to the effect of a Stat Bump item, what happens to those bonus spell slots if the item's magic is temporarily supressed? The way to understand this is to understand that one time/day your spell SLOTS are refreshed. You may take time to prepare spells in those slots at the same time, or later as you desire. If your casting stat is lowered in such a way that you have more active slots of a certain level than the stat and level can support then you must loose slots until this is rectified. When this condition is undone you do not gain the spell(s) lost because you only refresh slots once a day... Can stat bump spells (Owls wis, Foxs cun, Eags spl) allow the use of bonus spells while the stat bump spell is running? Yes, but normally a moot point. 1> Stat bump spells could allow you more latitude in ability loss before you would have to loose spells. 2> You would need such spells to be active when slots were being refreshed, and then maintain such spells until the extra slots would be used. At 1min/level and a solid 1hour for regaining spells you're talking over a 30th level caster with extend spell.. (don't hold your breath). Does this also apply to lay on hands and undead turning/rebuke? To some extent. When you go to use the ability you look at your current state of affairs: you have a certain number allowable per day and a certain amount that you have used already in the day. If the later number exceeds the former then you cannot use the ability further. For example: A 10 Cha cleric gets 3 turns/day. He uses one. Casts Eagle's Splendor which leaves him at 5turns/day having used 1. While the spell is active he uses 3 more turns.. then the spell expires. Now he has 3 turns/day but has used 4 turns today, which means he cannot turn undead currently. Were he to recast Eagle's Splendor (or put on a +4 CHA cloak) he would be able to turn undead one more time that day (and only while such an effect was in place). What does the above do to characters who are only allowed to cast spells of a certian level due to the stat bump? Are spontaneous casters like sorcerers affected the same way by the above conditions as those who use prepared spells? [QUOTE=jokem] I don't follow the first question and as to the second other than preparing the above is true for spontaneous casters. They refresh slots once per day, etc. -James
Iswald 07-21-06, 09:05 AM	If a character gets 0 spells per day of a specific level, and does not have the ability score to get bonus spells of that level. Can the character still use scrolls, wands, etc without a caster check? You need a high enough attribute to cast a spell of a given level to use it from a scroll without a caster level check. For example, an 7th level bard with a 16 or higher charisma would be able to use their bonus spell slot to cast a third level spell. However, if the bard's charisma was only 15, they wouldn't be able to cast a third level spell directly. But, they could still cast a third level bard scroll without a caster check since they only need 13 charisma to cast a third level bard spell. Wands and staves only require that you have the spell on your spell list and don't require any particular ability score to use them (as long as you can somehow complete the spell). Most other items, woundrous items, weapons, etc, don't require ability scores to active. Can stat bump spells (Owls wis, Foxs cun, Eags spl) allow the use of bonus spells while the stat bump spell is running? According to the FAQ, no. The duration of these spells is too short to take advantage of them. Conceivably, you could rest for eight hours, then cast a buffing spell followed by preparing your spells for the day. But, unless you cast all your spells right away, you'd end up losing prepare spells. When your buffing spell ended, you'd lose your bonus spells which would come from unused slots first. But, going back to the 7th level bard. If they only had 12 charisma, they could cast eagle's splender on themselves. This would raise their charisma to 16 which would be high enough that they could use a bard scroll of a third level spell which they wouldn't normally be able to cast (they still couldn't cast a third level spell directly).
jokem 07-22-06, 06:50 PM	Thanks to both of you. Based upon this, I understand it is the spell slots which need to be refreshed, no matter if these are used for prepared spells or spontaneous spells. I also understand even though a stat bump item allows access to bonus spell slots as well as higher level spells, if the stat bump items is temporarily supressed, these slot would be lost and not regained until they are refreshed. Lastly, An item like a CLW wand can be used by anyone with CLW on their spell list even if their class level and/or Ability score is not high enough to personally cast the spell. Correct?
JamesMaissen 07-23-06, 01:47 AM	Thanks to both of you. Based upon this, I understand it is the spell slots which need to be refreshed, no matter if these are used for prepared spells or spontaneous spells. I also understand even though a stat bump item allows access to bonus spell slots as well as higher level spells, if the stat bump items is temporarily supressed, these slot would be lost and not regained until they are refreshed. Lastly, An item like a CLW wand can be used by anyone with CLW on their spell list even if their class level and/or Ability score is not high enough to personally cast the spell. Correct? By George I think you've got it! Yep, everything looks correct. To throw more into the mix: using a wand is atleast a standard action (more if the spell takes more time, but not less than a standard action) and it does not provoke an AOO for so doing. -James
clannagh 08-04-06, 01:13 AM	a related question I have never been able to clarify is this one: Can a character with one level of ranger (who according to the PHB has no caster level) use scrolls with a caster check if his wisdom is high enough? My assumption has been no .. as they are not a caster at all till level 4, but the fact he/she can use a wand is a good argument in favor of them also getting scroll use with a caster check.
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-06, 12:46 PM	a related question I have never been able to clarify is this one: Can a character with one level of ranger (who according to the PHB has no caster level) use scrolls with a caster check if his wisdom is high enough? My assumption has been no .. as they are not a caster at all till level 4, but the fact he/she can use a wand is a good argument in favor of them also getting scroll use with a caster check. Wands and Scrolls are different - Wands are Spell Trigger Items and page 213 of DMG specifically mentions that a Paladin 3(as an example) can use a Wand. Scrolls are Spell Completion Items - you must use a caster check. The only time you get the ability to make caster checks is if you have a caster level. Ranger specifically mentions that 'Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level.'
clannagh 08-07-06, 01:44 AM	Wands and Scrolls are different - Wands are Spell Trigger Items and page 213 of DMG specifically mentions that a Paladin 3(as an example) can use a Wand. Scrolls are Spell Completion Items - you must use a caster check. The only time you get the ability to make caster checks is if you have a caster level. Ranger specifically mentions that 'Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level.' Thats how I have always played it. Good to know for sure. The other one that has always confused me is whether wands come in divine and arcane varieties. A lot of my players (even non casters) carry cure light wands and loan them out willy nilly during combat to hwoever can make use of them. I never know whether to allow bards to use the same wands as clerics druids and rangers or make the players specifically deem the wands as "divine" or "arcane" at the time of purchase and restrict them to casters of that type.
TallGuy 08-07-06, 07:28 AM	Thats how I have always played it. Good to know for sure. The other one that has always confused me is whether wands come in divine and arcane varieties. A lot of my players (even non casters) carry cure light wands and loan them out willy nilly during combat to hwoever can make use of them. I never know whether to allow bards to use the same wands as clerics druids and rangers or make the players specifically deem the wands as "divine" or "arcane" at the time of purchase and restrict them to casters of that type. Wands don't have 'different' versions for arcane or divine spells. Either you have the spell on your class-spell-list, or you don't, and if you do, you can use it. Scrolls however, are specific in what type of magic is needed to be able to complete it (and so have to be either arcane or divine, and a bard cannot use a scroll of cure light wounds written by a cleric without resorting to the Use Magic Device skill). Bas Vermeulen