Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 01-25-08, 09:28 AM	An oddity of swarms is that they can share their space with others. So could multiple swarms share the same space? For my example, a 14th level druid summons 7 centipede swarms. All on the same target. Do the swarms damage, distract, or poison each other? I'd say no because from the SRD (Types, Subtypes and Abilities): A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. and A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. and A creature with a poison attack is immune to its own poison and the poison of others of its kind. This stacking could possibly occur as the result of even a normal encounter. Thoughts?
Jay_Ibero_911 01-25-08, 10:39 AM	An oddity of swarms is that they can share their space with others. So could multiple swarms share the same space? For my example, a 14th level druid summons 7 centipede swarms. All on the same target. Do the swarms damage, distract, or poison each other? I'd say no because from the SRD (Types, Subtypes and Abilities): and and This stacking could possibly occur as the result of even a normal encounter. Thoughts? It's what swarms do...
Timlagor 01-25-08, 10:53 AM	This isn't really covered by the rules. Allied swarms or swarms of the same type would not attack each other imo. I would apply damage from hostile swarms to each other. They clearly act over the whole area. I would not allow swarms to 'stack' because I'd assume that a swarm covers its area ..they might be able to fit in teh same 5' square but they can't both cover the target(s)
JamesMaissen 01-25-08, 11:28 AM	An oddity of swarms is that they can share their space with others. So could multiple swarms share the same space? If you are trying to do 'there are 5 swarms in this space take 5x damage' then I would say no. Its abusive and imho goes against intent of the 'creature'. The idea behind them is that there are so many little creatures in the square that you are 'hit' by 'enough' of them to do X damage. There's not a concept of a 'more dense' swarm that does more damage. I also don't really think there is *room* for more than one swarm in a given area (caveat a flying swarm and a land bound one) as they fill the area with as many of the composite critters as possible. At the very worst, swarms automatically do damage. And swarms are not immune to damage from other swarms (as it's not blunt/slash/pierce/weapon damage as I understand things) even those of the same 'kind'. -James
Rerednaw 01-25-08, 12:03 PM	Well actually, if the target is large...then one 5' corner of 4 swarms could cover it...add in 4 flying swarms and that's 8. I had hoped it was in the FAQ somewhere. I've seen table variation on this. Usually along the lines of when attacking PCs, they stack...when PCs attack NPCs, they dont. :p
Vamroc 01-25-08, 01:38 PM	When swarms over lap they don't do more damage but the PC gets to be attacked by each one separately within that square. They would also get flanking bonuses in the event they over lap in such a way for the PC to be stuck in between the two swarms. As for Swarm Vs. a Swarm summoned by a PC it depends on what being summoned swarm of Bats Vs. an insect swarm you would treat them as if their two creatures with the bats having the advantage. Also it's not how many are pact in to a square it's the overall size a huge swarm does more damage than medium sized swarm. Kind of like how the medium sized mob template does less damage than the epic level mob template.:invasion:
Jay_Ibero_911 01-25-08, 02:25 PM	When swarms over lap they don't do more damage but the PC gets to be attacked by each one separately within that square. They would also get flanking bonuses in the event they over lap in such a way for the PC to be stuck in between the two swarms. As for Swarm Vs. a Swarm summoned by a PC it depends on what being summoned swarm of Bats Vs. an insect swarm you would treat them as if their two creatures with the bats having the advantage. Also it's not how many are pact in to a square it's the overall size a huge swarm does more damage than medium sized swarm. Kind of like how the medium sized mob template does less damage than the epic level mob template.:invasion: Swarms don't make attack rolls, so flanking is irrelevant. They do automatic damage to anything occupying their squares....So the more swarms are occupying your space, the more damage you are taking. The only question is whether or not swarms can occupy the space of other swarms, which there isn't really any reason they can't...except for making sense...but sense has no place in the rules, hehe...
UMiskatonic 01-25-08, 05:46 PM	Yeah, but LG judges are meant to follow both the letter and the intent of the rules. While the letter is vague, I think the intent is clear, that swarms do not stack.
draxynnic 01-31-08, 12:28 AM	I had this question come up recently - I figured that swarms could occupy the same squares, but would be attacking each other - and since swarms do area damage, they do extra damage to each other. As a result, the spider swarm dispersed the locust swarm in pretty short order. If the swarms aren't killing each other... well, they might be able to overlap, but it's pretty clear between the lines that anyone in a swarm-occupied square already has as many members of the swarm attacking them as possible (otherwise a single swarm could condense into one square instead of four and do quadruple damage), so overlapping swarms don't do extra damage. Think of it as the victim already being completely covered in creepy-crawlies and the second swarm has to settle for sitting on top of the members of the first waiting for the opportunity to get to the tender juicy PC flesh beneath. If there are other targets around, they'd much rather go for them instead...