Tome of Magic, et al. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Tome of Magic, et al. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rbodine
03-01-07, 12:28 PM I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic.

It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!)

Who's right?

I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :)
Jay_Ibero_911
03-01-07, 12:35 PM I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic.

It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!)

Who's right?

I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :)

If it's on an AR, it's been approved by the Circle (from what I understand).
GeorgeFHarris
03-01-07, 12:41 PM I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic.

It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!)

Not official, but...

I have that same AR. IIRC that AR came from the Core Special (that was replayed at DragonCon).

My understanding is that if an option is not explicitly closed, then it may be taken with campaign documentation. The AR constitutes campaign documentation.

GH
rbodine
03-01-07, 12:51 PM I guess that explains how I fought a psionic Brain in a Jar in a mod a while back. :) That certainly opens up a lot of options. As for the AR, do you recall what access was granted? Practically speaking, it must grant access to mysteries generally, but are there any that are prohibited? What about shadow magic feats? It seems that in order to open access to it, you'd need a page of text explaining what can and can't be taken. The fact that the guy claims he's able to take a particular PrC suggests that the AR also lists available PrC's, which makes it even more expansive. I'd be interested to see the text of this AR. I'd also like to play this mod.
blood_kite
03-01-07, 01:10 PM LGCS 597 v7.0.1

Page 11
Chapter 4: Rulebooks

The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access: Open and Closed. See Appendix 4 for more details on these classifications. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC.

Page 25
Appendix 3: Glossary

Campaign Documentation: This is official documentation issued by the campaign staff. This is usually in the form of an AR or metaorg certificate, but may also be a special certificate of some other form. A GM's signature must appear on any AR or certificate for it to be valid.

Page 26
Appendix 4: Access

The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC.

Open: A PC may take advantage of Open rules items if it meets all the prerequisites. If you gain campaign documentation granting you access to a new rules option, that effectively Opens that rules option for that PC.

Closed: A PC may not take advantage of any rules item listed as Closed, ever.

Dispel Confusion Vol. 3, No. 2
Q: I can’t find a rules option listed in the LGCS. Does that mean it is open or closed?

A: It is technically neither.

The LGCS only lists rules options you can take without documentation, and rules options you can never take. Anything that is not listed in the LGCS requires campaign documentation. Once you receive such campaign documentation, the rules option is effectively opened for your PC.

The Tome of Magic is not listed in the LGCS because the LGCS does not Open access to anything from the Tome of Magic. That's what AR's are for. Anything on an AR is supposed to be approved by the Circle before the mod can be played.

The reason it was done this way was so that the circle doesn't have to come out with a new LGCS everytime a new book comes out. Anything that an author has put into a mod, from any source, has been looked over and approved by the Circle before that mod is released for play.

Since that Core Special has been out for several months and the Circle has not said anything like "oops, you weren't supposed to have access to that stuff" it should be a fairly safe assumption that you can take shadowcaster levels.
chrispedersen
03-02-07, 02:32 AM I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic.

It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!)

Who's right?

I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :)

I have the same AR. It specifically states his access to shadow items (essentially: none). But other than that, he does have full access the the PRC.
Madfox11
03-02-07, 04:38 AM I'd be interested to see the text of this AR. I'd also like to play this mod.

It is a core special that is retired by now. The adventure also mentions that it is believed that anybody casting shadow magic is slowly liberating Tharizdum.

Just in case you need official confirmation: Blood_kite is correct.

Pieter Sleijpen
RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member
The Splintered Suns
blood_kite
03-02-07, 08:05 AM Wow, there's a first time for everything.
rbodine
03-02-07, 09:26 AM Wow, there's a first time for everything.

Congratulations, blood_kite. I'm still waiting for my one chance to be right. :)
MysticRhythms
03-04-07, 07:06 PM I have the same AR. It specifically states his access to shadow items (essentially: none). But other than that, he does have full access the the PRC.

I am "that other guy" the OP refers to in his original post.

Not only is there a specific separate AR with a paragraph(albeit a small one) of text devoted to the explanation of what is opened up from the Tome of Magic, but it also has a regular AR that also opens access to certain magic items from the Tome of Magic.

So it's not entirely accurate to say "essentially: none."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rbodine 03-01-07, 12:28 PM	I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic. It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!) Who's right? I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :)
Jay_Ibero_911 03-01-07, 12:35 PM	I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic. It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!) Who's right? I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :) If it's on an AR, it's been approved by the Circle (from what I understand).
GeorgeFHarris 03-01-07, 12:41 PM	I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic. It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!) Not official, but... I have that same AR. IIRC that AR came from the Core Special (that was replayed at DragonCon). My understanding is that if an option is not explicitly closed, then it may be taken with campaign documentation. The AR constitutes campaign documentation. GH
rbodine 03-01-07, 12:51 PM	I guess that explains how I fought a psionic Brain in a Jar in a mod a while back. :) That certainly opens up a lot of options. As for the AR, do you recall what access was granted? Practically speaking, it must grant access to mysteries generally, but are there any that are prohibited? What about shadow magic feats? It seems that in order to open access to it, you'd need a page of text explaining what can and can't be taken. The fact that the guy claims he's able to take a particular PrC suggests that the AR also lists available PrC's, which makes it even more expansive. I'd be interested to see the text of this AR. I'd also like to play this mod.
blood_kite 03-01-07, 01:10 PM	LGCS 597 v7.0.1 Page 11 Chapter 4: Rulebooks The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access: Open and Closed. See Appendix 4 for more details on these classifications. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC. Page 25 Appendix 3: Glossary Campaign Documentation: This is official documentation issued by the campaign staff. This is usually in the form of an AR or metaorg certificate, but may also be a special certificate of some other form. A GM's signature must appear on any AR or certificate for it to be valid. Page 26 Appendix 4: Access The rules options in this document are divided into two types of access. If a rules option is not included in this document, you must have campaign documentation Opening it for your PC. Open: A PC may take advantage of Open rules items if it meets all the prerequisites. If you gain campaign documentation granting you access to a new rules option, that effectively Opens that rules option for that PC. Closed: A PC may not take advantage of any rules item listed as Closed, ever. Dispel Confusion Vol. 3, No. 2 Q: I can’t find a rules option listed in the LGCS. Does that mean it is open or closed? A: It is technically neither. The LGCS only lists rules options you can take without documentation, and rules options you can never take. Anything that is not listed in the LGCS requires campaign documentation. Once you receive such campaign documentation, the rules option is effectively opened for your PC. The Tome of Magic is not listed in the LGCS because the LGCS does not Open access to anything from the Tome of Magic. That's what AR's are for. Anything on an AR is supposed to be approved by the Circle before the mod can be played. The reason it was done this way was so that the circle doesn't have to come out with a new LGCS everytime a new book comes out. Anything that an author has put into a mod, from any source, has been looked over and approved by the Circle before that mod is released for play. Since that Core Special has been out for several months and the Circle has not said anything like "oops, you weren't supposed to have access to that stuff" it should be a fairly safe assumption that you can take shadowcaster levels.
chrispedersen 03-02-07, 02:32 AM	I've been having a discussion on another thread with someone. He has an AR that grants him access to Shadowcaster (base class) and Noctumancer (PrC) from Tome of Magic. It's my understanding that authors may not grant access to material appearing in books that aren't expressly listed in the LGCS, and Tome of Magic certainly fits that description. He insists that the LGCS allows you access to anything appearing on an AR, implicitly arguing that an author can put anything on an AR. (If so, what about non-WotC sources?!?!) Who's right? I'd appreciate an official response on this one if possible. People with no more authority than I won't be taken seriously by this guy (assuming I'm right). :) I have the same AR. It specifically states his access to shadow items (essentially: none). But other than that, he does have full access the the PRC.
Madfox11 03-02-07, 04:38 AM	I'd be interested to see the text of this AR. I'd also like to play this mod. It is a core special that is retired by now. The adventure also mentions that it is believed that anybody casting shadow magic is slowly liberating Tharizdum. Just in case you need official confirmation: Blood_kite is correct. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns
blood_kite 03-02-07, 08:05 AM	Wow, there's a first time for everything.
rbodine 03-02-07, 09:26 AM	Wow, there's a first time for everything. Congratulations, blood_kite. I'm still waiting for my one chance to be right. :)
MysticRhythms 03-04-07, 07:06 PM	I have the same AR. It specifically states his access to shadow items (essentially: none). But other than that, he does have full access the the PRC. I am "that other guy" the OP refers to in his original post. Not only is there a specific separate AR with a paragraph(albeit a small one) of text devoted to the explanation of what is opened up from the Tome of Magic, but it also has a regular AR that also opens access to certain magic items from the Tome of Magic. So it's not entirely accurate to say "essentially: none."