Uncanny Dodge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Uncanny Dodge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jokem
07-22-06, 06:57 PM This feat prevents Barbarians from being sneak attacked while flatfooted
no matter how high the rogue level is attempting the sneak?
JJeff
07-22-06, 08:11 PM No, the ability prevents you from being flatfooted, no matter what. It doens't prevent SA, though it does remove one of the conditions of SA.

And yes, no matter what level of rogue.
Iswald
07-23-06, 01:49 AM Note that feinting and certain spells can still make a character flat footed even if they have uncanny dodge.
Arvagor
07-23-06, 03:17 AM A successful feint does not cause one's opponent to be flat-footed; it causes them to lose their dexterity bonus (if any) to AC against your next attack. It's a subtle distinction, but a some times important one...
jokem
07-23-06, 07:37 PM No, the ability prevents you from being flatfooted, no matter what. It doens't prevent SA, though it does remove one of the conditions of SA.

And yes, no matter what level of rogue.

Can you elaborate more on this? If a character is not flatfooted how can
they be sneak attacked? If flanked, sure, although I do not know if that
is really SNEAK attacking, but the rogue would get the extra damage for
flanking.

What I am gathering is a rogue would not be able to get the extra damage
on a barbarian with uncanny dodge, unless other circumstances which
allowed it were in play. Such as being flanked, or a feat which allowed
ther rogue to override the uncanny dodge, allowing the dex bonus to be
suspended.
Arvagor
07-23-06, 11:12 PM Can you elaborate more on this? If a character is not flatfooted how can
they be sneak attacked? If flanked, sure, although I do not know if that
is really SNEAK attacking, but the rogue would get the extra damage for
flanking.Ways for a rogue to get in sneak attack damage without your opponent being flat-footed: You and an ally are flanking your opponent, or
You successfully feint against him, or
You are blinking (per the spell), or
Your opponent is grappling someone else (you are not engaged in the grapple), and you successfully hit your opponent
Etc. ...Shall we go on?
Haro
07-24-06, 07:36 AM I don't have the PHB with me, but I was under the impression Uncanny Dodge allowed you to retain your dexterity bonus while flat footed.

So you're flat footed, just not sneak attackable because you still have your dex bonus...
trollbill
07-24-06, 11:19 AM There are only 2 conditions in which you can perform a Sneak Attack:

1) When you are flanking your opponent.
2) When your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus.

Flat-footed is only 1 of the many ways an opponent can be denied his Dex bonus, albiet, one of the more common. Uncanny Dodge does prevent this one way of doing it, but there are many other ways. This includes (but are not limited to):

- Using the Feint action
- Attacking a Stunned opponent
- Attacking a Blind opponent (and doesn't have the Blind Fight feat)
- Attacking while Invisible or Hidden (this is negated by Uncanny Dodge, as well)
- Attacking a Helpless opponent
- Attacking an opponent who is climbing (and doesn't have a climb speed)
- Attacking an opponent someone else is grappling
- Attacking an opponent who is running (and doesn't have the Run feat)

There are also various spells (Phantom Threat), feats (Flick of the Wrist) and PrCs (Arcane Trickster, Exotic Weapon Master, Master Thrower) that have abilities that allow for additional situations for Sneak Attack.
jokem
07-26-06, 01:29 PM There are only 2 conditions in which you can perform a Sneak Attack:

1) When you are flanking your opponent.
2) When your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus.

Flat-footed is only 1 of the many ways an opponent can be denied his Dex bonus, albiet, one of the more common. Uncanny Dodge does prevent this one way of doing it, but there are many other ways. This includes (but are not limited to):

- Using the Feint action
- Attacking a Stunned opponent
- Attacking a Blind opponent
- Attacking while Invisible or Hidden
- Attacking a Helpless opponent
- Attacking an opponent who is climbing (and doesn't have a climb speed)
- Attacking an opponent someone else is grappling

There are also various spells (Phatom Threat), feats (Flick of the Wrist) and PrCs (Arcane Trickster, Exotic Weapon Master, Master Thrower) that have abilities that allow for additional situations for Sneak Attack.

- Attacking while Invisible or Hidden
My understanding is Uncanny Dodge negates sneak attack for this.
JJeff
07-26-06, 01:39 PM That is my understanding too
kenobi65
07-26-06, 01:48 PM That is my understanding too

Looks like that's correct.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
trollbill
07-26-06, 02:01 PM Looks like that's correct.

Agreed. I got mixed up trying to explain ways other than flat-footed that someone may be denied his dex without fully considering everything Uncanny Dodge did.

Of course, this also makes me wonder if it would negate the being Blind situation.
thorinXXX
07-26-06, 04:47 PM Agreed. I got mixed up trying to explain ways other than flat-footed that someone may be denied his dex without fully considering everything Uncanny Dodge did.

Of course, this also makes me wonder if it would negate the being Blind situation.

It would not negate all of the penalties for being blind, just allow you to keep your Dex bonus to AC. You are still at 1/2 move, you still have a 50% miss chance against any target that you manage to hit the AC of, and opponents still have a +2 to hit you.
ezreal2001
08-02-06, 12:33 AM It would not negate all of the penalties for being blind, just allow you to keep your Dex bonus to AC. You are still at 1/2 move, you still have a 50% miss chance against any target that you manage to hit the AC of, and opponents still have a +2 to hit you.

I wish.

A literal interperation is that UD prevents your PC from losing his/her/its dex bonus if struck by an invisible opponent. Unfortunetly the PHB makes a distinction between being struck by an invisible opponent is opposed to being struck while blind. So some gms will argue that since the character with UD is unable to see their assailant due to blindess rather than invisiblity then they loose their dex bonus.

I think this is stupid but other people see it differently.
Ira_Dei
08-02-06, 07:46 AM If you're blind, you can't see anything around you - if your attacker is invisible, you can still see terrain, and your own feet. quite a difference there, at least for me.
Madfox11
08-03-06, 03:12 AM I don't have the PHB with me, but I was under the impression Uncanny Dodge allowed you to retain your dexterity bonus while flat footed.

So you're flat footed, just not sneak attackable because you still have your dex bonus...

Haro is correct, and the difference is that the barbarian still does not get attacks of oppertunity (barring Combat Reflexes and perhaps other feats and/or spells) when for example surprised.
clannagh
08-07-06, 09:02 PM slightly off topic but related ....

Let us assume a PC has a spike chain (or "hold the line") and is about to be attacked by a NPC 40 feet away ... but the PC wins initiative.

Is it viable for the PC to use his/her first turn to feint so as to deny that NPC dex bonus against an attack of opportunity with the spiked chain if the NPC charges.
JJeff
08-07-06, 09:53 PM slightly off topic but related ....

Let us assume a PC has a spike chain (or "hold the line") and is about to be attacked by a NPC 40 feet away ... but the PC wins initiative.

Is it viable for the PC to use his/her first turn to feint so as to deny that NPC dex bonus against an attack of opportunity with the spiked chain if the NPC charges.

I believe it is viable, Fient does not require you to be in base to base contact or whatever, so I would say yes, you can feint

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jokem 07-22-06, 06:57 PM	This feat prevents Barbarians from being sneak attacked while flatfooted no matter how high the rogue level is attempting the sneak?
JJeff 07-22-06, 08:11 PM	No, the ability prevents you from being flatfooted, no matter what. It doens't prevent SA, though it does remove one of the conditions of SA. And yes, no matter what level of rogue.
Iswald 07-23-06, 01:49 AM	Note that feinting and certain spells can still make a character flat footed even if they have uncanny dodge.
Arvagor 07-23-06, 03:17 AM	A successful feint does not cause one's opponent to be flat-footed; it causes them to lose their dexterity bonus (if any) to AC against your next attack. It's a subtle distinction, but a some times important one...
jokem 07-23-06, 07:37 PM	No, the ability prevents you from being flatfooted, no matter what. It doens't prevent SA, though it does remove one of the conditions of SA. And yes, no matter what level of rogue. Can you elaborate more on this? If a character is not flatfooted how can they be sneak attacked? If flanked, sure, although I do not know if that is really SNEAK attacking, but the rogue would get the extra damage for flanking. What I am gathering is a rogue would not be able to get the extra damage on a barbarian with uncanny dodge, unless other circumstances which allowed it were in play. Such as being flanked, or a feat which allowed ther rogue to override the uncanny dodge, allowing the dex bonus to be suspended.
Arvagor 07-23-06, 11:12 PM	Can you elaborate more on this? If a character is not flatfooted how can they be sneak attacked? If flanked, sure, although I do not know if that is really SNEAK attacking, but the rogue would get the extra damage for flanking.Ways for a rogue to get in sneak attack damage without your opponent being flat-footed: You and an ally are flanking your opponent, or You successfully feint against him, or You are blinking (per the spell), or Your opponent is grappling someone else (you are not engaged in the grapple), and you successfully hit your opponent Etc. ...Shall we go on?
Haro 07-24-06, 07:36 AM	I don't have the PHB with me, but I was under the impression Uncanny Dodge allowed you to retain your dexterity bonus while flat footed. So you're flat footed, just not sneak attackable because you still have your dex bonus...
trollbill 07-24-06, 11:19 AM	There are only 2 conditions in which you can perform a Sneak Attack: 1) When you are flanking your opponent. 2) When your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus. Flat-footed is only 1 of the many ways an opponent can be denied his Dex bonus, albiet, one of the more common. Uncanny Dodge does prevent this one way of doing it, but there are many other ways. This includes (but are not limited to): - Using the Feint action - Attacking a Stunned opponent - Attacking a Blind opponent (and doesn't have the Blind Fight feat) - Attacking while Invisible or Hidden (this is negated by Uncanny Dodge, as well) - Attacking a Helpless opponent - Attacking an opponent who is climbing (and doesn't have a climb speed) - Attacking an opponent someone else is grappling - Attacking an opponent who is running (and doesn't have the Run feat) There are also various spells (Phantom Threat), feats (Flick of the Wrist) and PrCs (Arcane Trickster, Exotic Weapon Master, Master Thrower) that have abilities that allow for additional situations for Sneak Attack.
jokem 07-26-06, 01:29 PM	There are only 2 conditions in which you can perform a Sneak Attack: 1) When you are flanking your opponent. 2) When your opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus. Flat-footed is only 1 of the many ways an opponent can be denied his Dex bonus, albiet, one of the more common. Uncanny Dodge does prevent this one way of doing it, but there are many other ways. This includes (but are not limited to): - Using the Feint action - Attacking a Stunned opponent - Attacking a Blind opponent - Attacking while Invisible or Hidden - Attacking a Helpless opponent - Attacking an opponent who is climbing (and doesn't have a climb speed) - Attacking an opponent someone else is grappling There are also various spells (Phatom Threat), feats (Flick of the Wrist) and PrCs (Arcane Trickster, Exotic Weapon Master, Master Thrower) that have abilities that allow for additional situations for Sneak Attack. - Attacking while Invisible or Hidden My understanding is Uncanny Dodge negates sneak attack for this.
JJeff 07-26-06, 01:39 PM	That is my understanding too
kenobi65 07-26-06, 01:48 PM	That is my understanding too Looks like that's correct. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
trollbill 07-26-06, 02:01 PM	Looks like that's correct. Agreed. I got mixed up trying to explain ways other than flat-footed that someone may be denied his dex without fully considering everything Uncanny Dodge did. Of course, this also makes me wonder if it would negate the being Blind situation.
thorinXXX 07-26-06, 04:47 PM	Agreed. I got mixed up trying to explain ways other than flat-footed that someone may be denied his dex without fully considering everything Uncanny Dodge did. Of course, this also makes me wonder if it would negate the being Blind situation. It would not negate all of the penalties for being blind, just allow you to keep your Dex bonus to AC. You are still at 1/2 move, you still have a 50% miss chance against any target that you manage to hit the AC of, and opponents still have a +2 to hit you.
ezreal2001 08-02-06, 12:33 AM	It would not negate all of the penalties for being blind, just allow you to keep your Dex bonus to AC. You are still at 1/2 move, you still have a 50% miss chance against any target that you manage to hit the AC of, and opponents still have a +2 to hit you. I wish. A literal interperation is that UD prevents your PC from losing his/her/its dex bonus if struck by an invisible opponent. Unfortunetly the PHB makes a distinction between being struck by an invisible opponent is opposed to being struck while blind. So some gms will argue that since the character with UD is unable to see their assailant due to blindess rather than invisiblity then they loose their dex bonus. I think this is stupid but other people see it differently.
Ira_Dei 08-02-06, 07:46 AM	If you're blind, you can't see anything around you - if your attacker is invisible, you can still see terrain, and your own feet. quite a difference there, at least for me.
Madfox11 08-03-06, 03:12 AM	I don't have the PHB with me, but I was under the impression Uncanny Dodge allowed you to retain your dexterity bonus while flat footed. So you're flat footed, just not sneak attackable because you still have your dex bonus... Haro is correct, and the difference is that the barbarian still does not get attacks of oppertunity (barring Combat Reflexes and perhaps other feats and/or spells) when for example surprised.
clannagh 08-07-06, 09:02 PM	slightly off topic but related .... Let us assume a PC has a spike chain (or "hold the line") and is about to be attacked by a NPC 40 feet away ... but the PC wins initiative. Is it viable for the PC to use his/her first turn to feint so as to deny that NPC dex bonus against an attack of opportunity with the spiked chain if the NPC charges.
JJeff 08-07-06, 09:53 PM	slightly off topic but related .... Let us assume a PC has a spike chain (or "hold the line") and is about to be attacked by a NPC 40 feet away ... but the PC wins initiative. Is it viable for the PC to use his/her first turn to feint so as to deny that NPC dex bonus against an attack of opportunity with the spiked chain if the NPC charges. I believe it is viable, Fient does not require you to be in base to base contact or whatever, so I would say yes, you can feint