Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shearin69 03-03-06, 08:03 AM	I would like some clarification on the following FAQ explanation from LG 5.0 and my specific question is - As a 6th level Warmage, can I use a Lesser Rod of Empower or Maximize on a 3rd level spell (fireball) followed by the SUDDEN Empowered feat ability. From what I read in the PHB it would indicate that I could - however the below FAQ from LGCS 5.0 is giving me some doubt. As I interpet the FAQ - it is referring to modifiing a spell with the natural feat first (in which the spell would have a new level) and then using the rod (which is limited by the spell level). In my situation, I would normally would cast the spell and use the rod to modify it, and since I can cast a SUDDEN Empowered only once, I am picky on when I perform this action, so it normally goes off after the rod modification. FAQ: Q: When using metamagic rods, do I use the base spell level of the spell to determine whether a certain rod will function on the spell, or do I use the modified spell level? A: You use the modified spell level (the spell level after any metamagic feats possessed by the caster have been applied) to determine if a spell can receive a metamagic feat from a metamagic rod. This holds true whether the caster prepares spells or casts them spontaneously. Thus, a 6th-level wizard with an empowered fireball spell (modifi ed level of 5) could not use a lesser silent metamagic rod on this spell, as it only applies to spells with a modifi ed level of 3 or lower. Similarly, if the caster is a sorcerer using the same spell and rod, the character would apply the Empower Spell feat fi rst, and then check to see if the rod could be used against the modifi ed spell level.
Iswald 03-03-06, 10:58 AM	Does the spell slot used change? If not, there should be no problem. But, I don't think you could use a rod of empower with sudden empower on the same spell. In this case, you'd effectively be using the same ability twice on one spell.
Timlagor 03-03-06, 03:32 PM	1) Sudden Empower definitely happens first. 2) You will find table variation 3) You cannot Empower something already Empowered in any case 4) I would not allow you to use the Rod after Sudden Empower if Empower would put the spell beyond the range of the Rod.
Mortepierre 03-03-06, 03:53 PM	You use the modified spell level (the spell level after any metamagic feats possessed by the caster have been applied) to determine if a spell can receive a metamagic feat from a metamagic rod From this, it seems clear to me that you apply first any metamagic feat you possess, and then apply the metamagic rod (if still possible). So, Sudden Empower first followed by the metamagic rod. Given the description of Sudden Empower specifies that it doesn't increase the level of the spell cast, in your example the suddenly empowered fireball still counts as a 3rd level spell. Thus, it can be affected by a lesser rod of metamagic. Now, as to whether you can empower several times the same spell, that's another can of worms. Some metamagic feats obviously can't stack (i.e. Maximize) but others could.. potentially. A twice-empowered spell would translate into a x 2.25 modifier. Powerful but not unreasonable. I've seen it done in home games. I wouldn't allow it in convention without a senior judge's ruling though.