Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrystalBlue 01-16-07, 11:39 AM	I don't think this will work...but what the hell... My friend is a level 7 character. Fighter 1/Paladin 5/Hospitalier 1. He's got Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Lance), and Power Attack. He wants the tactical feat in CW for mounted charging and such. So, for his 7th level, he took Trample. Now, his question is...can he have his horse attempt to trample through a monster or a number of monsters and end, or Ride-By Attack, another creature? On a normal charge, I'd say no. But if he were to Ride-By on one creature and then keep riding, then attempt an overrun via Trample...I might allow it. Is this valid or not?
LachlarlanIII 01-16-07, 11:58 AM	I believe you can Overrun as part of a charge attack. A Trample is a mounted Overrun that can't be avoided and does damage.
Howie23 01-16-07, 12:57 PM	I believe you can Overrun as part of a charge attack. A Trample is a mounted Overrun that can't be avoided and does damage. You cannot overrun as part of a charge, per the PHB errata: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/PHBErrata02062006.zip David
LGMoses 01-16-07, 12:57 PM	New Feat: Spirited Trample anyone?
CrystalBlue 01-16-07, 03:38 PM	Alright...then can anyone answer this for us? Is the tactical feat for mounted charging and Trample actually good in LG, or should this character just focus on being a power attacking cavalier?
Gwumph 01-16-07, 11:55 PM	big question is your charcter a small sized character or medium? If you have a medium mount, forget the trample won't work often enough. If you have a large size mount it might work. personally though if you are using a large mount, better feats to take would be tunnel riding and tunnel fighting which allows you to move normally and fight normally when squeezed.
clannagh 01-17-07, 02:14 AM	I don't think this will work...but what the hell... My friend is a level 7 character. Fighter 1/Paladin 5/Hospitalier 1. He's got Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Lance), and Power Attack. He wants the tactical feat in CW for mounted charging and such. So, for his 7th level, he took Trample. Now, his question is...can he have his horse attempt to trample through a monster or a number of monsters and end, or Ride-By Attack, another creature? On a normal charge, I'd say no. But if he were to Ride-By on one creature and then keep riding, then attempt an overrun via Trample...I might allow it. Is this valid or not? what you really need is a flying mount with 10' reach that has fly by attack :)
CrystalBlue 01-17-07, 07:54 AM	Oh, he's trying for a flying mount. He's going to try to get Griffon Rider in the Shield lands. Only problem is...he won't get it till WAY later...cause he's stuck in the Red Hand right now. :P And he's a human, so he's medium sized.
Camden 01-18-07, 11:04 AM	I don't think this will work...but what the hell... My friend is a level 7 character. Fighter 1/Paladin 5/Hospitalier 1. He's got Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Lance), and Power Attack. He wants the tactical feat in CW for mounted charging and such. So, for his 7th level, he took Trample. Now, his question is...can he have his horse attempt to trample through a monster or a number of monsters and end, or Ride-By Attack, another creature? On a normal charge, I'd say no. But if he were to Ride-By on one creature and then keep riding, then attempt an overrun via Trample...I might allow it. Is this valid or not? As stated before you cannot trample as part of of a Charge Action. Overrun is a Standard action (PHB pg157) taken during a movement. So you cannot Ride-By (Move, hit(std Action), Move) and then overrun(another Stnd Action) The only thing the Tactical feat (Cavalry Charger) is good for is the jump check additional damage. DC10 ride check for an extra +2 damage, or DC20 for an extra +4 (at the end of the end of movement as part of a charge action) which will then be tripled (Lance + Spirited Charge). Fell Trample (option3 Tactical Charger) allows you to overrun multiple characters (as you can only overrun 1 character normally) so you would move and then overrun as many as you can, but if you fail on the first you cannot go anyfurther, and with Trample they do not have the option of moving out of the way... The question is is it worth 'wasting' a feat to gan access to Cavalry Chrager ? You can't overrun as part of a Charge Action, so the decision in any combat would be do you Trample them (knocking them prone on the floor and doing 1d6 hoof damage) or PA for 10 : Str 22, Spirted Charge doing (20+9+1d8+weapon enchanments)*3 = 90+3d8 (guessing it'll be a +1 lance) If you use the 2 feats of Trample + Cavlary Charger, it's giving you the option of Tampling everything in a line or Same Damage just an addtional 12 pts (102+3d8) Personally If i had the choice of using 2 feats I would take Improved BullRush and Shock Trooper for the Heedless Assault. Declare your Spirted Charge and Ride By Attack, Declare a full PA, then Declare Heedless Assult to counter the PA. Hit with your normal attack roll (with the +2 for charging, +1 higher ground (counts as your on a horse)) and have the benefits of a full PA, which will normally hit, doing a fair whack of damage (as you only get 1 hit, gotta make sure it hit's, and make it count imho) And then you ride out of there with the ride-by. Just my 2p worth...
CrystalBlue 01-18-07, 11:56 AM	Ok. That looks like a great build. Here's my questions on that then. 1.) Where is Shock Trooper, what are the pre-requisits, and what does it do? 2.) What is Heedless Charge, what are it's pre-requisits, and what does it do? 3.) Right now, he's a Fgt 1/Pal 5/Hos 1. He wants to take Leadership as his Hospitalier feat. Convince me to convince him that this will be much better.
Camden 01-18-07, 01:39 PM	Ok. That looks like a great build. Here's my questions on that then. 1.) Where is Shock Trooper, what are the pre-requisits, and what does it do? 2.) What is Heedless Charge, what are it's pre-requisits, and what does it do? 3.) Right now, he's a Fgt 1/Pal 5/Hos 1. He wants to take Leadership as his Hospitalier feat. Convince me to convince him that this will be much better. Shock Troper - Complete Warrior pg112 (Tactical Feat) Pre-Req's Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack BAB +6 Benefits: Directed BullRush : Make a Succesfull Bullrush attempt as part of a Charge. For every Square you push the foe back, you may also push that foe one square to the left or right. Domino Rush: Make a succesful Bull rush attempt that forces a foe into the same square as another foe. You may make a free Trip attempt against both foes at the same time and neither foes gets a chance to trip you if your attempt fails. Heedless Charge : You must charge and make the attack at the end of the charge using your Power Attack feat. The penalty you take on your attack roll must be -5 or worse. In addition to normal charge modifiers (the +2 attack -2ac) you can assign any portion of the attack roll penalty from Power Attack to your Armour Class instead, up to a Maximum equal to your BAB. So if you are 10th level (easier for the Maths) you would have BAB STR WF MAGIC CHARGE Higher Ground Total +10 +6 +1 +1 +2 +1 = +21 to Hit Normally when you PA for X your To hit roll will go down by X PA for 5, to hit goes to +16. So instead you use Heedless Charge. PA for 10 and instead of applying the penalty to your To hit roll (taking it to +11 in this case) you would apply it to your AC (which would drop by 10) keeping your to hit roll at +21. The problem with Sprited charge/Ride-By/PA is that you are in effect putting all your eggs in 1 basket. Where a normal fighter will have multiple attacks (and even the haste) they will hit the majority of the time the Cavalry only has 1 chance. Just got to make sure you hit. Why take the drop in AC ? You should never be where you just hit. You Charge, Hit, Ride by out, so you should (hardly ever) get hit), and besides it's a free action to to drop for cover on your horse (DC15 ride check though I think) Unfortunalty your friend has taken Levels of Hospi, Paladin and Cavalier, which means he can then not go back and pick up extra levels of fighter if he still wants to pick up the odd level of Paladin (As Hospi and Cav both allow you to freely Multiclass between them and Paladin). He could (if he didn't want to take anymore Paladin levels) take Imp BRush as his hospi feat (as they take fighter feats) then at 8th take an Addtional level fighter (and pick up Shock trooper)due to the PreReq's for Cav is a BAB +8 leaving him his 9th, 12, and 15th slots free... Also if he has a wisdom of 12+ he has 1 paladin spell so he just need to pick up access to Rhino's Rush from the Spell Conpendium pg176 (Swift Action: The first Charge attack you make before the end of the round deals double damage). Remembering that Multipliers add together, not multiply seperatly (pg304 PHB) it would be in Using a Lance with Spirted Charge, and Rhinos Rush x4 damage. ANd when he has his Deadly Charge from Cavalier (non stackabke with Spirited Charge) it would be Quadrouple damage or using RhinoRush Quintuple(sp?). So at 10th level with the above numbers To hit rolls and Feats he would have +21 to hit -10AC Base damage of PA STR Magic Weapon +20 +9 +1 1d8 = 30+1d8 Spirted Charge (x3) = 90 +3d8 SC w/RR (x4)= 120 +4d8 Deadly Charge (x4)= 120 +4d8 DC w/RR (x5)= 150+ 5d8 It would be a shame to be able to do that and then miss because your PA for 10 and have to take the Penalty of it to your To Hit roll.
Gwumph 01-18-07, 09:41 PM	Also there is a magic item from MH, that allows you to re-roll a miss once per day. So if you really need to take out that BBEG monster and you missed, if you are wearing those gloves you get a second roll :D