Post/Author/DateTime	Post
soonerpat 03-28-07, 06:20 PM	This came up on the Veluna list and I thought the answer was wrong, but can't find clear documentation one way or the other. The war mage spell list has two spells at fifth level which are not on the open list. I was under the impression from previous writings (LGCS '96?) that warmages receive and exception so they can have access to all spells on their spell list, even if not on the "open" list. Can someone with authority confirm or deny? pat
bitznarf 03-28-07, 06:22 PM	I believe this changed with the new LGCS (v7.0.1). If a spell is NONC, it is NONC for every class, with no exceptions. If a spell is Open, it is Open for all classes that cast it, with no exceptions. I'm working from memory here, so its possible I am wrong, but I don't think so.
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 06:23 PM	Warmages do however get their various bonus feats.
bitznarf 03-28-07, 06:26 PM	As I understand it, these are only available through the class features, and not from a 'general feat slot'. Which is what you were saying (I think).
Jay_Ibero_911 03-28-07, 06:44 PM	I believe this changed with the new LGCS (v7.0.1). If a spell is NONC, it is NONC for every class, with no exceptions. If a spell is Open, it is Open for all classes that cast it, with no exceptions. I'm working from memory here, so its possible I am wrong, but I don't think so. Beguilers have open access to all their spells. Warmages do not have such an exception...
bitznarf 03-28-07, 07:01 PM	Ah, this is right. How could I have forgotten, I intend to play a Beguiler soon too.
soonerpat 03-28-07, 10:29 PM	That is too bad... The class already has one benefit (extra learning at level 3) nerfed since there are no really good evoker level 1 spells available when you get extra learning... now the spells at a higher level are limited too...
clik_ml 03-29-07, 12:06 AM	That is too bad... The class already has one benefit (extra learning at level 3) nerfed since there are no really good evoker level 1 spells available when you get extra learning. Tenser's Floating Disk is not to be underestimated.
Hand_OF_Mystra 03-29-07, 11:46 AM	The only fifth level warmage spell that is not in the PHB (and thus Open) or on the Open list in LGCS 7.0.1 is Fireshield, mass. I wonder if this is an oversight. I will post this in the Britt answers thread (I forget the name). I am not sure that not listing it as Open (at least for warmages) reflects the desire of the Circle. Maybe they can hit this will a Dispel Confusion.
kjenks 03-29-07, 11:55 AM	My LG Spell List document contains the Warmage spell list and the advanced learning list, to the best of my understanding: http://members.aol.com/kenjenks/lg/
soonerpat 03-29-07, 01:05 PM	Tenser's Floating Disk is not to be underestimated. I've been told this before, I've built this character (complete with german accent) as a Type-A, too-quick-too-act fellow who shoots first and asks questions later... he isn't big for having something that can haul things around or being the party mule... Having said that, I accepted that limitation some time ago.. I just didn't expect to see more spells lost off the spell list -- to me this is a further narrowing of the class which shouldn't happen. I'll look fwd to hearing if this is addressed in a DC, but if not, it won't stop me from enjoying the character! pat
kjenks 03-29-07, 01:52 PM	Dancing Lights is really nice for a spontaneous caster. Light one up just before you enter a spooky area and send it in ahead of the party. Use the option to make it look like a "faintly glowing, vaguely humanoid shape." It's amazing how often monsters will jump out at the thing and attack it, preventing your party from getting caught in the teeth of an ambush. You can also send your Dancing Lights dude into a spellcaster's face to distract him. "Spell: If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting. ... If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting." Not bad for a cantrip. It's an evocation, not an illusion, so the saving throw is a bit strange. Ask your DM.
ragecage79 03-29-07, 04:45 PM	I've been told this before, I've built this character (complete with german accent) as a Type-A, too-quick-too-act fellow who shoots first and asks questions later... he isn't big for having something that can haul things around or being the party mule... Having said that, I accepted that limitation some time ago.. I just didn't expect to see more spells lost off the spell list -- to me this is a further narrowing of the class which shouldn't happen. I'll look fwd to hearing if this is addressed in a DC, but if not, it won't stop me from enjoying the character! pat As a fellow German-accented Warmage player, I can assure you that there is plenty of fun to be had, Mass Fire Shield or no. :D
solbergb 03-29-07, 07:14 PM	if it isn't in character to have the Tenser Disk, dancing lights is fantastic for a "blaster mage". You will never, ever use your cantrips for anything but "light" anyway after level 4 or so. Might as well get them to do something useful - and make no mistake, the ability to light up "over there" as a free action (once cast) instead of where you are is VERY useful for an artillery character.
kjenks 03-29-07, 10:42 PM	While working on my druid today, I came across a new use for Dancing Lights. The 2nd level druid spell Summon Swarm lasts for "Concentration + 2 rounds" so you can keep it going a long time. It will get you a swarm that you can't direct. But if your buddy the warmage (or sorcerer) has Dancing Lights, he can use the vaguely humanoid dude or the will-o-wisp shape to lure the swarm around the dungeon while you walk slowly and concentrate. The swarm will attack the nearest creature, which appears to be the Dancing Lights, so it should follow the lights around until you run out of Dancing Lights duration or you encounter something else to attack. (Unless your DM decides that Dancing Lights isn't enough of a creature to lure a swarm.)
Gwumph 03-30-07, 12:20 AM	Am I incorrect at thinking this. But if your character has access to a NONC Evo spell, than can they use that for Advanced learning. Yes I know they only offer Tensor's disk on the list. But if you read the ability it says ANY Evo spell can be added. (personally I like Light of Lunia!!)
KarmaInferno 03-30-07, 06:39 PM	Tenser's Floating Disk is not to be underestimated. Remember, just because the caster can't ride around on the disk, doesn't mean the other party members can't. It's faster than some people can move, plus extra effective movement for the riding PC is nice. Plus, if you command it to stay still, the caster can use it as a stepstool or a chair. It just can't move while the caster is on it. I've had combat use of it at least once, as my Warmage already had it up when incorporeals attacked. She hopped up atop the disk so the thingys couldn't attack her from below, so the GM ruled that she had some cover against them unless they actually came out of the ground to attack. ...I really, really hate incorporeals that can see through solid ground. :mad: -karma
solbergb 03-31-07, 10:34 AM	actually they can't. They only have lifesense, which is like blindsense...they can attack but they have miss chances.