Wearing multiple of the same type of item at once? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wearing multiple of the same type of item at once? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jay_Ibero_911
08-16-07, 08:39 PM I know that you can only benefit from one item in any given slot at a time, and I know that there are no written rules for it, but given that characters are capable of wearing multiple magic amulets at once for instance, I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take?

Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter.
clannagh
08-16-07, 10:16 PM I know that you can only benefit from one item in any given slot at a time, and I know that there are no written rules for it, but given that characters are capable of wearing multiple magic amulets at once for instance, I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take?

Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter.

Its not that far stretched a question.

I had a player who wanted to wear multiple rings and have the last ring placed on a hand supercede the early ring which became active again when he removed the most recent

while that was fine stacking rings of protection and featherfall .. when you started adding in things like rings of sustenace it got complex
Iswald
08-16-07, 10:31 PM Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. He can have a pouch full of magic rings, for example. But he can only benefit from two rings at a time. If he puts on a third ring, it doesn't work. This general rule applies to other attempts to "double up" on magic items -- for instance, if a character puts on another magic cloak on top of one he is already wearing, the second cloak's power does not work.

It seems to me that the DMG has already answered the question adequately. The first item you put on is the one that is active. If you want to have another item active, you need to remove the first.
JamesMaissen
08-17-07, 01:19 AM Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter.

I thought that there were... the first worn is active.. the rest are not active, but can become active if the first is removed.

This is very useful for specialty items on the neck or ring slot(s).

-James
Jay_Ibero_911
08-17-07, 09:28 AM Ok...so there do seem to be a tiny bit of rules regarding continuous items. But what about slotted items that are only active on command? Like for instance, wearing 10 healing belts at once. The rules say you can only benefit from 1 item at a time in a given slot, and with activated items you are only benefiting when they are activated. So could you activate a different belt every round? Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another?
DuctShuiTengu
08-17-07, 09:48 AM Ok...so there do seem to be a tiny bit of rules regarding continuous items. But what about slotted items that are only active on command? Like for instance, wearing 10 healing belts at once. The rules say you can only benefit from 1 item at a time in a given slot, and with activated items you are only benefiting when they are activated. So could you activate a different belt every round? Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another?

Yes, you would. And some DMs might even go so far as to require that you put the second belt on after removing the first to be able to use it.
Iswald
08-17-07, 10:04 AM Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another?

Just for clarity, yes, you would have to remove the first item to make the second work. Healing belts take a slot in order to use it. Everything takes a slot, unless the item description says otherwise. If you had 10 healing belts on at the same time, you'd have to start taking off the first one put on to get the later belts to work.
Hariman
08-17-07, 04:13 PM Just for clarity, yes, you would have to remove the first item to make the second work. Healing belts take a slot in order to use it. Everything takes a slot, unless the item description says otherwise. If you had 10 healing belts on at the same time, you'd have to start taking off the first one put on to get the later belts to work.

Good lord, can you imagine trying to undo 10 belts when you have to pee? ;)

But seriously, some DMs will ask "How do you wear 10 belts at once without having trouble removing the first?"

I'd recommend that the player just hand out a few of those belts instead of going goth and wearing too many belts.
Iswald
08-18-07, 04:23 AM Good lord, can you imagine trying to undo 10 belts when you have to pee? ;)

Kilts!
Hariman
08-18-07, 11:23 AM Kilts!

Actually, I was thinking Lulu from Final Fantasy X. Or having all ten belts run up your torso, looking like grandpa pants as they go past your ribs!

It's so many belts, it's absurd.
MatteBlack
08-18-07, 11:32 AM One that has come up for me is with the anklet of translocation. It takes up your boots slot but you very obviously have two ankles. Since it is a times a day item, it would seem reasonable to wear one on each ankle to double your available charges.
Hariman
08-18-07, 11:57 AM One that has come up for me is with the anklet of translocation. It takes up your boots slot but you very obviously have two ankles. Since it is a times a day item, it would seem reasonable to wear one on each ankle to double your available charges.

But you still have to remove the first one because, even if out of charges, it's still a magic item in a magic item slot.
kjenks
08-18-07, 10:34 PM My Sorc 15 wears two cloaks, her expensive Cloak of Charisma +6 and a cheap +1 Cloak of Resistance on top. The Cloak +1 is inactive, but if she rolls a natural 1 on an area spell, the cheap cloak might fry, sparing the expensive cloak. I think of it as a Cloak of Cloak Protection.

Her raven familiar wears two Capes of the Mountebank, one on top of the other. After the raven uses the first one, he (or his mistress) can take off the used cape so that the other one becomes active.
clannagh
08-19-07, 12:19 AM My Sorc 15 wears two cloaks, her expensive Cloak of Charisma +6 and a cheap +1 Cloak of Resistance on top. The Cloak +1 is inactive, but if she rolls a natural 1 on an area spell, the cheap cloak might fry, sparing the expensive cloak. I think of it as a Cloak of Cloak Protection.

Her raven familiar wears two Capes of the Mountebank, one on top of the other. After the raven uses the first one, he (or his mistress) can take off the used cape so that the other one becomes active.

So its not just the active slotted item that get considered as targets for damage ?

Wouldnt that mean you could just find the cheapest possible item high on the damage target list and carry it in your back pack ?
Iswald
08-19-07, 02:33 AM I would think it was the active item myself that would fry... Fortunately, we more or less ignore that rule about nat ones around here.
kjenks
08-19-07, 08:32 AM So its not just the active slotted item that get considered as targets for damage ?

Wouldnt that mean you could just find the cheapest possible item high on the damage target list and carry it in your back pack ?

That rule about Items Surviving after a Saving Throw is a bit vague about the details, so it seems worthwhile to give the DM a little wiggle-room in interpreting it.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#itemsSurvivingafte raSavingThrow

Putting an item in your backpack pretty much protects it completely against most area spells because the backpack itself would fry -- and that's it. Only Fireball and Lightning Bolt have this special wording:

SRD
===
If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
===

Compare that to Flame Strike -- it won't hurt the stuff inside your backpack. If you Flame Strike a tent, you can fry the tent itself, but nothing inside is damaged.

And as you can see from the table, a backpack is among the items that are last to get destroyed ("In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.")
kjenks
08-19-07, 08:38 AM I would think it was the active item myself that would fry... Fortunately, we more or less ignore that rule about nat ones around here.

That's a core rule and we're not supposed to just ignore it. My most memorable use of that rule was when I was the DM for a BK mod and a Chain Lightning trap fried the pants off of a dwarf PC. The character was a low-level rogue with just armor, stowed weapons and "anything else." Her "anything else" got fried. Loads of fun.
Timlagor
08-21-07, 06:50 PM At my table:
- the first item put on works
- all subsequent items donned are suppressed
- to activate another item after the first is removed the new item must be donned subsequent to the removal of the originally active item

So if you are wearing two items and want to sqithc which one is active you would have to take them both off before putting one on again.
kjenks
08-22-07, 07:47 AM At my table:
- the first item put on works
- all subsequent items donned are suppressed
- to activate another item after the first is removed the new item must be donned subsequent to the removal of the originally active item

So if you are wearing two items and want to sqithc which one is active you would have to take them both off before putting one on again.

Those first two bullets are RAW. The third one is... not.

SRD
===
Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect.
===

I can understand why you'd want to impose that third rule for play balance, but it's not in the books.
Istaran
08-22-07, 03:56 PM Compare that to Flame Strike -- it won't hurt the stuff inside your backpack. If you Flame Strike a tent, you can fry the tent itself, but nothing inside is damaged.

And as you can see from the table, a backpack is among the items that are last to get destroyed ("In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.")

Actually, flame strike unambiguously toasts everything in the tent:

Flame Strike
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Clr 5, Drd 4, Sun 5, War 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Cylinder (10-ft. radius, 40 ft. high)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell’s point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.
Timlagor
08-22-07, 09:29 PM kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't.

It is not covered by the rules and that it how I choose to adjudicate it. Others might rule that the next item to have been put on would activate but there's really no reason why the items should 'remember' which order they were put on if you have more than 2 in the slot.

I think my ruling makes more sense.
clannagh
08-23-07, 12:12 AM kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't.

It is not covered by the rules and that it how I choose to adjudicate it. Others might rule that the next item to have been put on would activate but there's really no reason why the items should 'remember' which order they were put on if you have more than 2 in the slot.

I think my ruling makes more sense.

This might be nit-picky but I would avoid the term suppressed as that may imply it doesn't need activating and just begins functioning again once the supressing effect is removed.

A better wording for your purposes might be "the rules do not state that removing an active item re-activates a previously active item. "
JamesMaissen
08-23-07, 04:15 PM kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't.

I think my ruling makes more sense.

So you are saying that someone can have a worn slotted magic item and it not be active without anything else occupying that slot?

I don't think that the rules quite support you. An item is active if it is worn unless there is another item in that slot. When the first item is removed then this is not the case, correct?

-James
Some_call_me_Tim
08-23-07, 05:27 PM I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take?I generally just make them use the "activate a magic item" standard action. I point to the rule: "Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity[.]"

This can be viewed as manipulating the items so that the item you want activated is the first one that you 'donned.' If you had three rings on, simply removing and replacing it would cause the third ring to function and the one you manipulated to stop.

It may not be rules-as-written but, I haven't had it break a game yet.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 08-16-07, 08:39 PM	I know that you can only benefit from one item in any given slot at a time, and I know that there are no written rules for it, but given that characters are capable of wearing multiple magic amulets at once for instance, I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take? Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter.
clannagh 08-16-07, 10:16 PM	I know that you can only benefit from one item in any given slot at a time, and I know that there are no written rules for it, but given that characters are capable of wearing multiple magic amulets at once for instance, I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take? Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter. Its not that far stretched a question. I had a player who wanted to wear multiple rings and have the last ring placed on a hand supercede the early ring which became active again when he removed the most recent while that was fine stacking rings of protection and featherfall .. when you started adding in things like rings of sustenace it got complex
Iswald 08-16-07, 10:31 PM	Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. He can have a pouch full of magic rings, for example. But he can only benefit from two rings at a time. If he puts on a third ring, it doesn't work. This general rule applies to other attempts to "double up" on magic items -- for instance, if a character puts on another magic cloak on top of one he is already wearing, the second cloak's power does not work. It seems to me that the DMG has already answered the question adequately. The first item you put on is the one that is active. If you want to have another item active, you need to remove the first.
JamesMaissen 08-17-07, 01:19 AM	Note: Again, I am aware there are currently no rules regarding this at all, I am merely asking for people's ideas on the matter. I thought that there were... the first worn is active.. the rest are not active, but can become active if the first is removed. This is very useful for specialty items on the neck or ring slot(s). -James
Jay_Ibero_911 08-17-07, 09:28 AM	Ok...so there do seem to be a tiny bit of rules regarding continuous items. But what about slotted items that are only active on command? Like for instance, wearing 10 healing belts at once. The rules say you can only benefit from 1 item at a time in a given slot, and with activated items you are only benefiting when they are activated. So could you activate a different belt every round? Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another?
DuctShuiTengu 08-17-07, 09:48 AM	Ok...so there do seem to be a tiny bit of rules regarding continuous items. But what about slotted items that are only active on command? Like for instance, wearing 10 healing belts at once. The rules say you can only benefit from 1 item at a time in a given slot, and with activated items you are only benefiting when they are activated. So could you activate a different belt every round? Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another? Yes, you would. And some DMs might even go so far as to require that you put the second belt on after removing the first to be able to use it.
Iswald 08-17-07, 10:04 AM	Or would you have to remove the empty belt before you would even be able to activate another? Just for clarity, yes, you would have to remove the first item to make the second work. Healing belts take a slot in order to use it. Everything takes a slot, unless the item description says otherwise. If you had 10 healing belts on at the same time, you'd have to start taking off the first one put on to get the later belts to work.
Hariman 08-17-07, 04:13 PM	Just for clarity, yes, you would have to remove the first item to make the second work. Healing belts take a slot in order to use it. Everything takes a slot, unless the item description says otherwise. If you had 10 healing belts on at the same time, you'd have to start taking off the first one put on to get the later belts to work. Good lord, can you imagine trying to undo 10 belts when you have to pee? ;) But seriously, some DMs will ask "How do you wear 10 belts at once without having trouble removing the first?" I'd recommend that the player just hand out a few of those belts instead of going goth and wearing too many belts.
Iswald 08-18-07, 04:23 AM	Good lord, can you imagine trying to undo 10 belts when you have to pee? ;) Kilts!
Hariman 08-18-07, 11:23 AM	Kilts! Actually, I was thinking Lulu from Final Fantasy X. Or having all ten belts run up your torso, looking like grandpa pants as they go past your ribs! It's so many belts, it's absurd.
MatteBlack 08-18-07, 11:32 AM	One that has come up for me is with the anklet of translocation. It takes up your boots slot but you very obviously have two ankles. Since it is a times a day item, it would seem reasonable to wear one on each ankle to double your available charges.
Hariman 08-18-07, 11:57 AM	One that has come up for me is with the anklet of translocation. It takes up your boots slot but you very obviously have two ankles. Since it is a times a day item, it would seem reasonable to wear one on each ankle to double your available charges. But you still have to remove the first one because, even if out of charges, it's still a magic item in a magic item slot.
kjenks 08-18-07, 10:34 PM	My Sorc 15 wears two cloaks, her expensive Cloak of Charisma +6 and a cheap +1 Cloak of Resistance on top. The Cloak +1 is inactive, but if she rolls a natural 1 on an area spell, the cheap cloak might fry, sparing the expensive cloak. I think of it as a Cloak of Cloak Protection. Her raven familiar wears two Capes of the Mountebank, one on top of the other. After the raven uses the first one, he (or his mistress) can take off the used cape so that the other one becomes active.
clannagh 08-19-07, 12:19 AM	My Sorc 15 wears two cloaks, her expensive Cloak of Charisma +6 and a cheap +1 Cloak of Resistance on top. The Cloak +1 is inactive, but if she rolls a natural 1 on an area spell, the cheap cloak might fry, sparing the expensive cloak. I think of it as a Cloak of Cloak Protection. Her raven familiar wears two Capes of the Mountebank, one on top of the other. After the raven uses the first one, he (or his mistress) can take off the used cape so that the other one becomes active. So its not just the active slotted item that get considered as targets for damage ? Wouldnt that mean you could just find the cheapest possible item high on the damage target list and carry it in your back pack ?
Iswald 08-19-07, 02:33 AM	I would think it was the active item myself that would fry... Fortunately, we more or less ignore that rule about nat ones around here.
kjenks 08-19-07, 08:32 AM	So its not just the active slotted item that get considered as targets for damage ? Wouldnt that mean you could just find the cheapest possible item high on the damage target list and carry it in your back pack ? That rule about Items Surviving after a Saving Throw is a bit vague about the details, so it seems worthwhile to give the DM a little wiggle-room in interpreting it. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#itemsSurvivingafte raSavingThrow Putting an item in your backpack pretty much protects it completely against most area spells because the backpack itself would fry -- and that's it. Only Fireball and Lightning Bolt have this special wording: SRD === If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does. === Compare that to Flame Strike -- it won't hurt the stuff inside your backpack. If you Flame Strike a tent, you can fry the tent itself, but nothing inside is damaged. And as you can see from the table, a backpack is among the items that are last to get destroyed ("In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.")
kjenks 08-19-07, 08:38 AM	I would think it was the active item myself that would fry... Fortunately, we more or less ignore that rule about nat ones around here. That's a core rule and we're not supposed to just ignore it. My most memorable use of that rule was when I was the DM for a BK mod and a Chain Lightning trap fried the pants off of a dwarf PC. The character was a low-level rogue with just armor, stowed weapons and "anything else." Her "anything else" got fried. Loads of fun.
Timlagor 08-21-07, 06:50 PM	At my table: - the first item put on works - all subsequent items donned are suppressed - to activate another item after the first is removed the new item must be donned subsequent to the removal of the originally active item So if you are wearing two items and want to sqithc which one is active you would have to take them both off before putting one on again.
kjenks 08-22-07, 07:47 AM	At my table: - the first item put on works - all subsequent items donned are suppressed - to activate another item after the first is removed the new item must be donned subsequent to the removal of the originally active item So if you are wearing two items and want to sqithc which one is active you would have to take them both off before putting one on again. Those first two bullets are RAW. The third one is... not. SRD === Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect. === I can understand why you'd want to impose that third rule for play balance, but it's not in the books.
Istaran 08-22-07, 03:56 PM	Compare that to Flame Strike -- it won't hurt the stuff inside your backpack. If you Flame Strike a tent, you can fry the tent itself, but nothing inside is damaged. And as you can see from the table, a backpack is among the items that are last to get destroyed ("In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.") Actually, flame strike unambiguously toasts everything in the tent: Flame Strike Evocation [Fire] Level: Clr 5, Drd 4, Sun 5, War 5 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: Cylinder (10-ft. radius, 40 ft. high) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell’s point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.
Timlagor 08-22-07, 09:29 PM	kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't. It is not covered by the rules and that it how I choose to adjudicate it. Others might rule that the next item to have been put on would activate but there's really no reason why the items should 'remember' which order they were put on if you have more than 2 in the slot. I think my ruling makes more sense.
clannagh 08-23-07, 12:12 AM	kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't. It is not covered by the rules and that it how I choose to adjudicate it. Others might rule that the next item to have been put on would activate but there's really no reason why the items should 'remember' which order they were put on if you have more than 2 in the slot. I think my ruling makes more sense. This might be nit-picky but I would avoid the term suppressed as that may imply it doesn't need activating and just begins functioning again once the supressing effect is removed. A better wording for your purposes might be "the rules do not state that removing an active item re-activates a previously active item. "
JamesMaissen 08-23-07, 04:15 PM	kjenks: the rules do not state that removing an active item activates the previously suppressed item. There is no particular reason why another item shoudl become active so at my table it doesn't. I think my ruling makes more sense. So you are saying that someone can have a worn slotted magic item and it not be active without anything else occupying that slot? I don't think that the rules quite support you. An item is active if it is worn unless there is another item in that slot. When the first item is removed then this is not the case, correct? -James
Some_call_me_Tim 08-23-07, 05:27 PM	I was curious as to some people's ideas for rulings on determining which is currently active, and how, if possible, one can change which is currently active. For instance, Mr. T is wearing an Amulet of Health +6, an Amulet of Natural Armor +5, and a Golembane Scarab simultaneously. The amulet of health is his default active item. In your opinion, how can he change which is active if he desires, and what kind of action does it take?I generally just make them use the "activate a magic item" standard action. I point to the rule: "Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity[.]" This can be viewed as manipulating the items so that the item you want activated is the first one that you 'donned.' If you had three rings on, simply removing and replacing it would cause the third ring to function and the one you manipulated to stop. It may not be rules-as-written but, I haven't had it break a game yet.