Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trollbill 01-03-07, 06:48 PM	My Draconic Heritage Sorcerer6/Ruathar1 just lost his left hand over the weekend. Well, okay, it's not actually 'lost.' It's hanging around his neck as a Hand of Glory, but I need a Wish or Miracle to fix that. I was initially horrified by this, but after playing two more mods without serious detriment, I am now trying to decide how much effort I want to put out to get this fixed. The AR says I have to ask the DM what I will suffer for this effect. Needless to say, there will be much table variation, but I am trying to get an idea of what I can expect. Here are a few of the more obvious problems I will face: 1) I will no longer be able to use my White Dragonfang Longspear or my +1 Strength Adjusted (+2) Composite Longbow (or any other two-handed weapon). The Longspear is a bit of a trademark for the character, but the higher level I've gotten, the less I get involved in melee combat. Mostly I just use it for AoOs on incoming attackers and providing flanks for rogues. And I have yet to use a missile weapon since I created the character. 2) I can't have a weapon in my hand and cast spells at the same time. This isn't that much of a problem since I have Draconic Claws. 3) I lose one of my claw attacks from my Draconic Claws, but see above regarding melee combat. 4) I cannot use gauntlets. 5) I can use 1 less ring (though I can still use 2 as long as I don't use my necklace slot for anything else). 6) My left arm is mostly useless, though I should still be able to use my +1 Mithral Buckler since it straps onto the forearm, and it is arguable as to whether or not I could use a Rod or Wand strapped to it since neither item states you actually have to hold it in your hand to use it. 7) Due to LG restrictions, I cannot replace the hand with a hook or anything else useful unless I get documentation otherwise. What other detriments do you think, mechanics-wise, I will suffer that should influence my decision?
Japangirl 01-03-07, 07:14 PM	DMs may say you take additional negative on climb checks. You seem to have gotten most of the big ones though.
clannagh 01-03-07, 07:38 PM	you canot TWF obviously though if you took ascetic mage and a monk level you could still flurry as flurry uses feet elbows head knees etc the buckler could even go on your primary hand and still cast nothing wrong with a sling as a ranged weapon if you ever desperately need one (silenced and entangled ?) generally you will not want to hold anything in the primary hand otherwise simple acts like opening doors etc become a juggling act a familiar with hands (pseudodragon?) may be useful checks that may be effected .. - climb - swim - craft - balance - sleight of hand - disguise (may help in some disguises) - ride ?? - strength checks that require "pulling" something it may also have an effect on some reflex saves, particulary the ones to catch the edge if you fail a jump check over a gap
Reska 01-03-07, 08:03 PM	5) I can use 1 less ring (though I can still use 2 as long as I don't use my necklace slot for anything else). Pg 214 of the DMG "One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)." So you can still wear both rings, on the same hand even.
trollbill 01-04-07, 12:23 AM	you canot TWF obviously though if you took ascetic mage and a monk level you could still flurry as flurry uses feet elbows head knees etc Well, don't use it except for the afore mentioned claw attacks so no big deal there. the buckler could even go on your primary hand and still cast Yeah, but then I'd suffer a -1 to my claw attack. nothing wrong with a sling as a ranged weapon if you ever desperately need one (silenced and entangled ?) Well, so far I've been getting away with using my Draconic Breath on them when this happens, but one of these days they won't be within 30 feet. Of course, I still have the sling & bullets I bought with my starting gold I was just about to get rid of when I got the bow... generally you will not want to hold anything in the primary hand otherwise simple acts like opening doors etc become a juggling act Yeah. Which makes the big questions still, "What, exactly, can be used with my stump?" a familiar with hands (pseudodragon?) may be useful People keep asking me when I am going to trade my Toad in for something more useful now that his 3 hp just aren't that much anymore. But unless I'm missing something, I am not overly thrilled with being without a familiar for a whole year just to do that. Besides, the bright orange utility animal vests clash with my color skeem. checks that may be effected .. - climb I can fly. - swim Haven't had to worry about that yet, but fly might help me with that too. - craft Don't have any. - balance That one might prove problematic, but I have fly, feather fall and a ring of feather falling to cover the more dangerous of the possible problems with that. - sleight of hand Don't use it. - disguise (may help in some disguises) This I use a lot, but fortunately I have a +12 to my check before I even cast disguise self or alter self. - ride ?? Don't use it much. - strength checks that require "pulling" something Could prove problematic. it may also have an effect on some reflex saves, particulary the ones to catch the edge if you fail a jump check over a gap Fly and feather fall again. All good potential problems. Thanks for the list. So far my build seems to have unintentionally taken care of most of them. Of course, I was planning on taking polymorph as my first 4th-level spell, but seeing as I would lose out on things like Annis Rend, I may need to rethink that. Pg 214 of the DMG "One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand)." So you can still wear both rings, on the same hand even. Oooo! Thanks! It makes things even better. Now I'm only losing gauntlet/glove access.
clannagh 01-04-07, 12:50 AM	People keep asking me when I am going to trade my Toad in for something more useful now that his 3 hp just aren't that much anymore. But unless I'm missing something, I am not overly thrilled with being without a familiar for a whole year just to do that. Why 3Hp .. from SRD ....... Hit Dice For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher. Hit Points The familiar has one-half the master’s total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice. It makes things even better. Now I'm only losing gauntlet/glove access. The reason for the restriction appears to be to prevent the set being split and given to two characters .. consider asking for a local triad ruling on whether attaching the glove to a "stump" would function.
magebeast 01-04-07, 12:57 AM	Why 3Hp .. from SRD ....... Toad Familiars grant you 3 bonus hit points.
clannagh 01-04-07, 12:59 AM	Toad Familiars grant you 3 bonus hit points. ah .. i thought he meant the familiars hitpoints all is clear now
LGMoses 01-04-07, 01:33 AM	man, u need to find someone to run every mod u mildly suspect a pirate may be involved in. U have GOT to get a hook.
trollbill 01-04-07, 01:38 AM	man, u need to find someone to run every mod u mildly suspect a pirate may be involved in. U have GOT to get a hook. Well, personally I was hoping for a chain saw or mechanical hand attachment, but a hook might do. Shop smart, shop S-Mart. :D
pedr 01-04-07, 03:00 AM	To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.I only noticed this as I was looking up references for another question on these boards! So no wands in the off-stump, I'm afraid! By the way, try not to travel to Onnwal - Hand of the Mage is illegal here (you know, we backward peasants are somewhat squeamish about mummified necklaces) and I'm not convinced that "But officer, it's my hand" would be met with much sympathy!!
clik_ml 01-04-07, 04:39 AM	Alter Self could alleviate many of these difficulties and is a worthwhile spell in its own right as well.
awroe 01-04-07, 08:05 AM	All good potential problems. Thanks for the list. So far my build seems to have unintentionally taken care of most of them. Of course, I was planning on taking polymorph as my first 4th-level spell, but seeing as I would lose out on things like Annis Rend, I may need to rethink that. I don't see why you would loose out - surely Polymorph would 'morph you a new hand, and you still know how to fight with two hands.
CrystalBlue 01-04-07, 09:46 AM	Well, personally I was hoping for a chain saw or mechanical hand attachment, but a hook might do. Shop smart, shop S-Mart. :D You know what that is? Groovy. Exotic Weapon Proficency (Chainsaw) and Exotic Weapon Proficency (Boomstick). Now you're an Undead Hunter. :D Klatu...Vera...Ni*cough, cough*...
trollbill 01-04-07, 09:59 AM	I don't see why you would loose out - surely Polymorph would 'morph you a new hand, and you still know how to fight with two hands. Hmmm...Well, the spell does say I gain all of the extra-ordinary attacks of the new form. So technically I think you are correct. But I am still betting I will see table variation on this.
Howie23 01-04-07, 12:16 PM	Of course, I still have the sling & bullets I bought with my starting gold I was just about to get rid of when I got the bow... Sling takes only one hand to attack, but takes two hands to load. David
LachlarlanIII 01-04-07, 12:39 PM	Well there is the Stump Knife from A&EG. ;)
solbergb 01-04-07, 02:11 PM	One thing to consider is if you can't muster a +4 ride skill you need a hand to control a mount in combat. You're also not going to be able to use metamagic rods or hold a weapon while casting spells. It's going to have an impact but as a primary caster, not as bad as it would on some other characters.
trollbill 01-04-07, 02:21 PM	You're also not going to be able to use metamagic rods or hold a weapon while casting spells. Well, I looked at the wording for rods, metamagic rods and use activated devices, and unlike wands, I see no wording that states it must be held in the hand to be used. Heck, I don't even see any wording that says you couldn't use it if it was just sitting in your backpack. So I am likely to see some table variance on this. If I'm lucky I can get away with strapping one of my Metamagic Rods to my left arm.
copper_wyrmling 01-04-07, 03:46 PM	Well, I looked at the wording for rods, metamagic rods and use activated devices, and unlike wands, I see no wording that states it must be held in the hand to be used. Heck, I don't even see any wording that says you couldn't use it if it was just sitting in your backpack. So I am likely to see some table variance on this. If I'm lucky I can get away with strapping one of my Metamagic Rods to my left arm. If you look at the descriptions for specific metamagic rods, they all mention that the "wielder" can apply the metamagic feat to spells. On most tables that I've played on, people interpret "wield" to mean that you need to have the rod in hand. But yeah, there is table variation.
Haro 01-04-07, 06:37 PM	I only noticed this as I was looking up references for another question on these boards! So no wands in the off-stump, I'm afraid! You sir, win the award for first ever cricketing joke on these boards (I believe). Hilarious! Joe
pedr 01-04-07, 07:28 PM	Don't talk about cricket. :P
solbergb 01-05-07, 11:40 AM	If you look at the descriptions for specific metamagic rods, they all mention that the "wielder" can apply the metamagic feat to spells. On most tables that I've played on, people interpret "wield" to mean that you need to have the rod in hand. But yeah, there is table variation. Yeah. Some of us feel this is also an important balancing mechanism. Spont casters need it already in hand to use the same round. Prep casters need a move action, and either may need to drop an expensive rod in combat to free a hand. Melee types need quickdraw if they want to full attack and use the rod on a swift spell (usually rod of extend) Compare the wording to pearl of power, which very clearly requires only POSSESSION of the pearl. There is regional variation on how common this opinion is, but most places and regions I've played in assume a meta-rod must be in hand to be used.
ShinAkuma2 01-05-07, 01:14 PM	I don't see why you would loose out - surely Polymorph would 'morph you a new hand, and you still know how to fight with two hands. On the AR, it notes, "So long as the Hand of Glory exists, your hand cannot be regenerated in any way" (edited slightly to avoid any spoilers). Note that "regenerated" is not capitalized or italicized, so I take it that it does not exlusively refer to the spell. So long as that Hand exists, his stump will remain a stump, regardless of form.
Morgen 01-05-07, 01:34 PM	You don't need to have a meta-magic rod in your hand to activate it, it just has to be on your person somewhere not floating around in a haversack or bag of holding, etc. I'm saying this because the mods I've played have had NPC villians with metamagic rods straped to thier arms, thighs, etc like you'd expect a cowboy to have extra knives and guns holstered and was allowed to use them without drawing them.
trollbill 01-05-07, 02:14 PM	On the AR, it notes, "So long as the Hand of Glory exists, your hand cannot be regenerated in any way" (edited slightly to avoid any spoilers). Well, it was a year 5 mod so spoilers won't matter much. However, it is a Hand of Draco Argentum's Glory as I refuse to give credit to the SOB that did it to me. I think he just topped my list of most hated.
katrick 01-06-07, 03:30 AM	Take Still Spell Feat marty
_m_ 01-07-07, 10:51 PM	Oooo! Thanks! It makes things even better. Now I'm only losing gauntlet/glove access. technicaly you do still have 2 hands... you could wear gloves of dex on them both... or 2 gloves on 1 hand, over the top of each other.
Duncan Haldane 01-10-07, 04:42 AM	What can you do with a one-handed sorceror? Hold it two handed and power attack.... :D
clannagh 01-10-07, 08:10 PM	of course if you could get a twilight bashing mithral shield you could stap that on your stump arm and still threaten :)
cycloptic_squirrel 01-10-07, 08:18 PM	for that matter throw armor spikes on leafweave padded
cycloptic_squirrel 01-10-07, 08:37 PM	Actually, for this particular character, it doesn't seem too crippling. And it does open up certain roleplay oportunities, especially if you use your disguise to make it appear as if you still had your hand. If you took first crack at interogating a prisoner and then the barbarian 'chopped' off your hand for failure, I'd expect more than the standard +2 to aid another. That or just go into combat with your arm tied behind your back. If questioned about it, tell them that you were arguing with a friend who thought that orcs were deadly creatures and you were proving a point. ;)