Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lightblade 03-17-08, 08:23 PM	So, my bard was recently lucky enough to find both a Cannith Mandolin and a Cli Lyre. I was pretty psyched about it; the Cannith was at the top of my want-to-find list. Of course, it would be quite a stretch to have both instruments at the same time, so I came up with a crazy idea: purchase some Sovereign Glue and attach the two instruments together. In my head I'm imaging something like a Gibson double-neck guitar. Now, before I tried something like this (it would involve blowing favors to get the Glue), what would the LG judges among you say about it? I'm not trying to pretend I can play both of them at the same time or anything ridiculous like that, it would just be handy to not have to pull an additional instrument out of the Haversack.
Eagle Prince 03-17-08, 09:14 PM	I think what you are really trying to do is RP Jimmy Page ...and she's buying a stairway to heav-en.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-17-08, 09:14 PM	So, my bard was recently lucky enough to find both a Cannith Mandolin and a Cli Lyre. I was pretty psyched about it; the Cannith was at the top of my want-to-find list. Of course, it would be quite a stretch to have both instruments at the same time, so I came up with a crazy idea: purchase some Sovereign Glue and attach the two instruments together. In my head I'm imaging something like a Gibson double-neck guitar. Now, before I tried something like this (it would involve blowing favors to get the Glue), what would the LG judges among you say about it? I'm not trying to pretend I can play both of them at the same time or anything ridiculous like that, it would just be handy to not have to pull an additional instrument out of the Haversack. Well realistically speaking, it could negatively impact the sound of both instruments by having a dead weight attached to them...Though there is nothing preventing you from sovereign gluing them together...
MwaO 03-17-08, 11:47 PM	So, my bard was recently lucky enough to find both a Cannith Mandolin and a Cli Lyre. I was pretty psyched about it; the Cannith was at the top of my want-to-find list. Of course, it would be quite a stretch to have both instruments at the same time, so I came up with a crazy idea: purchase some Sovereign Glue and attach the two instruments together. In my head I'm imaging something like a Gibson double-neck guitar. Given that a Mandolin has a vaulted back in a bowl shape, where exactly is a Mandolin attaching to a Lyre, a harp-like instrument? It seems like you'd have all kinds of weird weight issues.
UMiskatonic 03-18-08, 12:10 AM	It would be handy to glue a suit of chainmail to a suit of platemail, and get a total armor bonus of +13. It be handy to have a spiked chain in one hand, a greatsword in the other, and also carry around rope and a grappling hook and a set of spell components. But you aren't allowed to do it. As far as glue goes, as someone who knows how to play a few instruments, it's also ridiculous. At best, I'd rule it's now a two-handed object, and you're at a -4 to use either one. If I'm feeling really nice. Normally, I'd say that neither one works, but I'd let you unglue it for free at the start of the mod.
Redfist 03-18-08, 12:25 AM	I think it's fair to say that you'll receive at least some negative reactions. :) ETV (expect table variation) It wouldn't work at my tables. I'd allow them to be glued together, but switching between playing one and the other (moving hands, etc.) would have move action costs associated (to negate the benefit).
Lightblade 03-18-08, 12:32 AM	Given that a Mandolin has a vaulted back in a bowl shape, where exactly is a Mandolin attaching to a Lyre, a harp-like instrument? It seems like you'd have all kinds of weird weight issues. Here's what my mental image was: if you look at pg 157 of the MIC, you see the doss lute and the ollamh harp. The exterior of the lute is a convex surface, and the harp is a concave surface. If the radius of curvature was the same (I know it's a big if, but if i'm paying this much gold for a Gnome-sized instrument i figure it's pretty much a custom job anyway), then you could attach the two in such a way that the sets of strings were parallel. As for weight, Gimble is shown in the PHB with a strap holding the instruments up. I'd understand a circumstance penalty to play the instruments due to bad acoustics / weird angle issues, but it does seem like it could be a pretty sweet setup. I guess a reasonable question is: Might I get worse table variation than "that doesn't work and you'd have know that, they're not together for this module."? That's acceptable. "They don't work, and you need to use Universal Dolvent before you can use either instrument again" is not acceptable.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-18-08, 12:35 AM	Just the problems that crop up when you try to go outside the RAW...There's no definite answer...
Redfist 03-18-08, 12:44 AM	IMHO, I think it's "likely" that most DMs would at worst say "they aren't stuck together - use them seperately." You could run into a DM saying "you ruined them - tough luck." Personally, I wouldn't test it. You'll also run into DMs (and players) who will view you as "trying to get away with something". Ick - bad first impression.
Lightblade 03-18-08, 12:48 AM	Fair enough. I actually do have one use of Universal Solvent just in case the worst happens. I think i'll try this at campaign end at Origins if I hit 15th level by then, more as a mark of style than any sort of munchkinry at this point. (Redfist's suggestion of taking a move to re-finger is completely acceptable to me). At very least, I hope i can find someone to do a decent character sketch (with the instruments) at Origins.
TetsujinOni 03-18-08, 10:40 AM	I'm not trying to pretend I can play both of them at the same time or anything ridiculous like that, Ah, but that's what Girallon's Blessing is for, right?
Puggle Halfwine 03-18-08, 11:12 AM	(Redfist's suggestion of taking a move to re-finger is completely acceptable to me) This would be my approach as well. As long as you aren't using the change to scam extra actions, such as saying "Well I can change instruments as a free because I'm already holding one..." instead of spending the move to draw it... absolutely fine by me. My rule is: As long as it's not getting unfair advantage, you may describe things how you like.
chesspiece 03-18-08, 04:47 PM	Ah, but that's what Girallon's Blessing is for, right? Oh. I thought that spell was for arcane spellcasters. Rod of Metamagic Quicken, Rod of Metamagic Empower (or Sculpting, Chaining, etc.), casting hand with +1 Mithral Buckler of Fortification, and +4 (GMW) Defending Dagger. :embarrass
Newpaintbrush 04-05-08, 02:31 PM	" So, my bard was recently lucky enough to find both a Cannith Mandolin and a Cli Lyre. I was pretty psyched about it; the Cannith was at the top of my want-to-find list. Of course, it would be quite a stretch to have both instruments at the same time, so I came up with a crazy idea: purchase some Sovereign Glue and attach the two instruments together. In my head I'm imaging something like a Gibson double-neck guitar. Now, before I tried something like this (it would involve blowing favors to get the Glue), what would the LG judges among you say about it? I'm not trying to pretend I can play both of them at the same time or anything ridiculous like that, it would just be handy to not have to pull an additional instrument out of the Haversack." As a GM, I would say that by using Sovereign Glue, you mess up both instruments and receive a -2 to -4 circumstance penalty on using either. That would be my ruling at the table were you to try this. With the mandolin, you would have to make sure that the attached musical instrument didn't brush against your body as you played the mandolin, as that would disrupt your music. (Dexterity check or receive -4 penalty for discordance). The lyre is held vertically, and I just don't see you using it properly with the weight and imbalance and positioning issues (-2 penalty for awkwardness). Seriously. Awkward. Anyways, it really looks like you're trying to get some game advantage out of this, "stylistic" issues aside. Sure you're paying for the cost of Sovereign Glue, but at least you don't have to spend two move actions to retrieve two different instruments then drop one and pick up the other &c &c. And free move actions IS a pretty big deal. What, a little rules finagling never hurt? It's not an issue, perhaps, you think? Why don't you ever see tables where PCs tape together forty oil flasks to fling at an enemy? It's certainly not like PCs don't have the strength to throw 5 gallons (plus flask weight) around, and you could argue by extension that the simple "catching on fire" on page 304 of the DMG for 1d6 should not apply, but that after fire is applied, that the damage should be 20d6 for "total immersion" like lava (conveniently on the same page). After all, 1 pint is enough to get your shirt wet, but 5 gallons is a pretty decent wet T-shirt contest. Can't you just see someone lugging around forty oil flasks tied together with a maniacal grin on his/her face and a lighted torch? That would certainly be a "mark of style" don't you think? And it ONLY costs 4 GP (plus 1 CP for the torch and maybe another 1 GP for flint and tinder). Hey, it really IS a good idea, isn't it? Why don't more people do it in Living Greyhawk? The reason of course being that Living Greyhawk is Living Greyhawk and house ruling is appropriately kept to a minimum, and furthermore, DMs do have the final say on rulings at the table per the RPGA guidelines, and if you do not agree and continue to argue, you simply make trouble for yourself. It is Not Wise to try to mess with the rules. You might be able to bend them, yes, but trying to get some free move actions is a bit much, even if you DID pay for Sovereign Glue. If you went so far as to actually glue them, they are glued. Sad but true. If you want to stick your +3 holy longsword into the mysterious green liquid curtain (green slime), I as a DM am not going to stop you. If you want to mess up both your instruments by gluing them together, and it's already a done deed, then I as a DM will allow you to do it (it is your decision), and suffer the appropriate consequences. "Personally, I wouldn't test it. You'll also run into DMs (and players) who will view you as "trying to get away with something". Ick - bad first impression." My thoughts exactly.
magebeast 04-05-08, 03:32 PM	[COLOR="Red"]stuff Hey you know about quote tags right?
Newpaintbrush 04-05-08, 04:29 PM	Hey you know about quote tags right? What? Lol. No, you're right.
magebeast 04-06-08, 01:32 AM	Lol. No, you're right. I mean, you can do whatever you want I guess. I simply find the quote/nonquote demarcation easier to follow then squinting at the red text.
Vamroc 04-06-08, 03:00 AM	Here's an idea find a fifteenth Wizard who has Craft Wondrous Item. Then have them make a Cannith Mandolin that magically changes to a Cli Lyre via Polymorph Any Object. Polymorph Any Object can be used only for crafting and for no other purpose. Good luck in finding a fifteenth level Wizard that's willing to waste a spell slot on it.
Maesto 04-06-08, 12:14 PM	Here's an idea find a fifteenth Wizard who has Craft Wondrous Item. Then have them make a Cannith Mandolin that magically changes to a Cli Lyre via Polymorph Any Object. Polymorph Any Object can be used only for crafting and for no other purpose. Good luck in finding a fifteenth level Wizard that's willing to waste a spell slot on it. Heh, I'd do that. At the usual cost, of course. Hell, I'll even give you a 50% discount. Nobody else pays me to cast spells :(