Wild Shape? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wild Shape? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LachlarlanIII
06-18-07, 04:03 PM What, if any, special rules does LG allow for the Wild Shape ability.

I'm not asking about the use of the errata.

A druid wild shaping into a humanoid creature (treant) losing access to his periapt et al seems wrong to me.

Someone please clarify.

Thanks!
King Kashue
06-18-07, 04:18 PM Well, you've first got an issue classifying a treant as a "humanoid"...

And as for LG, it uses the core rules as of the most recent errata.
LachlarlanIII
06-18-07, 04:35 PM Well, you've first got an issue classifying a treant as a "humanoid"...

And as for LG, it uses the core rules as of the most recent errata.

I wasn't classifying it as a Humanoid type. I was calling it humanoid in the fact that they appear human in shape.

I understand that LG uses the current errata, but it just seems wrong to me that a humanoid shaped creature (treant) loses all item functionality.
King Kashue
06-18-07, 05:06 PM I wasn't classifying it as a Humanoid type. I was calling it humanoid in the fact that they appear human in shape.

I understand that LG uses the current errata, but it just seems wrong to me that a humanoid shaped creature (treant) loses all item functionality.

Well, one, it's the rules. Two, you're going from a medium creature to a huge creature. It's a size change of two degrees. Even under the old polymorph-based rules a DM could easily have said 'no way' to all your items.
NotLestat
06-19-07, 02:44 AM And yet Enlarge Person allows the resizing of all items too...

But seriously, as a Druid, this is where the Natural Spell feat comes in handy with some barkskin and greater magic fang.

There are also a lot of very good prestige classes to bolster your Wild Shape ability.

Still, it is sucky, but Druids are very powerful characters, even after the revision. A frontline fighter will never see a Strength score of 30, but it's possible as a Druid in Wild Shape (actually, maybe more around the 34 mark just off the top of my head).
King Kashue
06-19-07, 03:49 AM And yet Enlarge Person allows the resizing of all items too...

And?

It's explicitly part of the spell text just as not keeping items is explicitly part of wild shape...There's no connection between the two, so why would you draw a comparison?

Still, it is sucky, but Druids are very powerful characters, even after the revision. A frontline fighter will never see a Strength score of 30

Um, yeah they will, unless when you say "fighter" you mean the class, not the role.

Anyone with barbarian levels can pretty easily hit 30 in the latter half of their career. Centaurs can do it with extreme easy, as can Dragon Disciples...My Bear warrior has 42, and he doesn't even have brown bear form yet :D
berpo
06-19-07, 01:31 PM And?
My Bear warrior has 42, and he doesn't even have brown bear form yet :D

Could you please put your bear warrior on the character forum I'm quite interested to know how you get so high in str.

Thanks

Marc
King Kashue
06-19-07, 02:12 PM Could you please put your bear warrior on the character forum I'm quite interested to know how you get so high in str.

Thanks

Marc

It's quick enough now:

24 Str (20 to start, 3 bumps, 1 point from shedding scales)
+8 Black Bear Form
+4 Warshaper Morphic Body
+2 Reckless Rage
+4 Belt of Giant Str...
=42

Now, that's assuming the judge allows the belt, which I've found most (85%-ish) do. If they don't, then 38 (and I'm about to buy an ioun stone, which works either way, so 40).

When I get Brown Bear form I'll have either a 48 or 50 str.
berpo
06-19-07, 02:18 PM Now, that's assuming the judge allows the belt, which I've found most (85%-ish) do. If they don't, then 38 (and I'm about to buy an ioun stone, which works either way, so 40).

When I get Brown Bear form I'll have either a 48 or 50 str.

Ok but even is I will accept that you wear the belt ... you have to drop it on the floor before you "wild shape" (bear shape) since the errate said that all item merge into you.

And since the bear form last for the rage ability It's not really usefull because you don't often have the time to "prebuff" before the fight.
King Kashue
06-19-07, 02:21 PM Ok but even is I will accept that you wear the belt ... you have to drop it on the floor before you "wild shape" (bear shape) since the errate said that all item merge into you.

Bear Warrior is not based off of wild shape. Never has been, still isn't.
sandrat
06-19-07, 04:52 PM At the very least, does a druid get high level spells back after shifting from normal shape to wild shape to normal shape again? If a stat-bump item is absorbed, what happens when it comes back?

And while we're at it, if my druid shifts into raven form, can the druid still speak languages?
King Kashue
06-19-07, 06:05 PM At the very least, does a druid get high level spells back after shifting from normal shape to wild shape to normal shape again? If a stat-bump item is absorbed, what happens when it comes back?

You lose the bonus slots when you shift, they come back when you unshift, but they come back empty (just as if the periapt of wis had been suppressed by an anti-magic field).

And while we're at it, if my druid shifts into raven form, can the druid still speak languages?

The PHB covers this (p.37): No, you're limited to the communication forms of an untrained animal of that form.
bitznarf
06-19-07, 06:12 PM You lose the bonus slots when you shift, they come back when you unshift, but they come back empty (just as if the periapt of wis had been suppressed by an anti-magic field).
I believe this is incorrect but I could be wrong. I seem to recall a FAQ or something on it. I'm going to go looking for actual proof here, so don't jump all over me just yet. What I recall is that the spell slots are not available to you, but do come back with the same spells still prep'd in them.

Edit: I can't seem to find it, but I do recall reading something like this. At this point however I think it would have come from a non-binding source and as such, one that GMs can choose not to use.
King Kashue
06-19-07, 06:16 PM I believe this is incorrect but I could be wrong. I seem to recall a FAQ or something on it. I'm going to go looking for actual proof here, so don't jump all over me just yet.

I thought so too, but I looked through the FAQ, DCs and both the PHB Errata and MM Errata and found nada...If you can find something, let me know.
Timlagor
06-19-07, 07:48 PM I thought they came back not 'empty' but 'spent' -ie you needed the rest/meditation/prayer session before you could use them again.

However I do seem to recall something about negative levels and lost spells which might be pertinent.
King Kashue
06-19-07, 09:39 PM I thought they came back not 'empty' but 'spent' -ie you needed the rest/meditation/prayer session before you could use them again.

Ugh, that's even nastier to the Druid...

In any case, I didn't find anything to that effect either...
bitznarf
06-19-07, 09:55 PM Ugh, that's even nastier to the Druid...

In any case, I didn't find anything to that effect either...
I would look at as the same as putting an item on the first time: you would need to rest for 8 hours while wearing the item prior to selecting your spells for the day.
King Kashue
06-19-07, 10:30 PM I would look at as the same as putting an item on the first time: you would need to rest for 8 hours while wearing the item prior to selecting your spells for the day.

Well, since divine casters don't need to rest at all, and pray for spells at a specific time of day no matter the circumstances, I'm not sure that's correct.

The FAQ says you need to "To get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations for spellcasting." (FAQ 7.5 p.54)

The daily preparations for spellcasting for a druid or cleric is merely pray at a certain time. And according to the PHB, if something prevents the normal prayer time, it can be (and must be) done at the earliest opportunity.

We agree it's as if you just gained the slots, which means one of two things:

1. You treat them as slots you could not fill at your normal time, and if you spend the time immediately, you can fill them

2. You treat them as slots you chose not to fill at the normal time, and you have to wait until your next prayer time to fill them.

Neither is specifically prescribed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LachlarlanIII 06-18-07, 04:03 PM	What, if any, special rules does LG allow for the Wild Shape ability. I'm not asking about the use of the errata. A druid wild shaping into a humanoid creature (treant) losing access to his periapt et al seems wrong to me. Someone please clarify. Thanks!
King Kashue 06-18-07, 04:18 PM	Well, you've first got an issue classifying a treant as a "humanoid"... And as for LG, it uses the core rules as of the most recent errata.
LachlarlanIII 06-18-07, 04:35 PM	Well, you've first got an issue classifying a treant as a "humanoid"... And as for LG, it uses the core rules as of the most recent errata. I wasn't classifying it as a Humanoid type. I was calling it humanoid in the fact that they appear human in shape. I understand that LG uses the current errata, but it just seems wrong to me that a humanoid shaped creature (treant) loses all item functionality.
King Kashue 06-18-07, 05:06 PM	I wasn't classifying it as a Humanoid type. I was calling it humanoid in the fact that they appear human in shape. I understand that LG uses the current errata, but it just seems wrong to me that a humanoid shaped creature (treant) loses all item functionality. Well, one, it's the rules. Two, you're going from a medium creature to a huge creature. It's a size change of two degrees. Even under the old polymorph-based rules a DM could easily have said 'no way' to all your items.
NotLestat 06-19-07, 02:44 AM	And yet Enlarge Person allows the resizing of all items too... But seriously, as a Druid, this is where the Natural Spell feat comes in handy with some barkskin and greater magic fang. There are also a lot of very good prestige classes to bolster your Wild Shape ability. Still, it is sucky, but Druids are very powerful characters, even after the revision. A frontline fighter will never see a Strength score of 30, but it's possible as a Druid in Wild Shape (actually, maybe more around the 34 mark just off the top of my head).
King Kashue 06-19-07, 03:49 AM	And yet Enlarge Person allows the resizing of all items too... And? It's explicitly part of the spell text just as not keeping items is explicitly part of wild shape...There's no connection between the two, so why would you draw a comparison? Still, it is sucky, but Druids are very powerful characters, even after the revision. A frontline fighter will never see a Strength score of 30 Um, yeah they will, unless when you say "fighter" you mean the class, not the role. Anyone with barbarian levels can pretty easily hit 30 in the latter half of their career. Centaurs can do it with extreme easy, as can Dragon Disciples...My Bear warrior has 42, and he doesn't even have brown bear form yet :D
berpo 06-19-07, 01:31 PM	And? My Bear warrior has 42, and he doesn't even have brown bear form yet :D Could you please put your bear warrior on the character forum I'm quite interested to know how you get so high in str. Thanks Marc
King Kashue 06-19-07, 02:12 PM	Could you please put your bear warrior on the character forum I'm quite interested to know how you get so high in str. Thanks Marc It's quick enough now: 24 Str (20 to start, 3 bumps, 1 point from shedding scales) +8 Black Bear Form +4 Warshaper Morphic Body +2 Reckless Rage +4 Belt of Giant Str... =42 Now, that's assuming the judge allows the belt, which I've found most (85%-ish) do. If they don't, then 38 (and I'm about to buy an ioun stone, which works either way, so 40). When I get Brown Bear form I'll have either a 48 or 50 str.
berpo 06-19-07, 02:18 PM	Now, that's assuming the judge allows the belt, which I've found most (85%-ish) do. If they don't, then 38 (and I'm about to buy an ioun stone, which works either way, so 40). When I get Brown Bear form I'll have either a 48 or 50 str. Ok but even is I will accept that you wear the belt ... you have to drop it on the floor before you "wild shape" (bear shape) since the errate said that all item merge into you. And since the bear form last for the rage ability It's not really usefull because you don't often have the time to "prebuff" before the fight.
King Kashue 06-19-07, 02:21 PM	Ok but even is I will accept that you wear the belt ... you have to drop it on the floor before you "wild shape" (bear shape) since the errate said that all item merge into you. Bear Warrior is not based off of wild shape. Never has been, still isn't.
sandrat 06-19-07, 04:52 PM	At the very least, does a druid get high level spells back after shifting from normal shape to wild shape to normal shape again? If a stat-bump item is absorbed, what happens when it comes back? And while we're at it, if my druid shifts into raven form, can the druid still speak languages?
King Kashue 06-19-07, 06:05 PM	At the very least, does a druid get high level spells back after shifting from normal shape to wild shape to normal shape again? If a stat-bump item is absorbed, what happens when it comes back? You lose the bonus slots when you shift, they come back when you unshift, but they come back empty (just as if the periapt of wis had been suppressed by an anti-magic field). And while we're at it, if my druid shifts into raven form, can the druid still speak languages? The PHB covers this (p.37): No, you're limited to the communication forms of an untrained animal of that form.
bitznarf 06-19-07, 06:12 PM	You lose the bonus slots when you shift, they come back when you unshift, but they come back empty (just as if the periapt of wis had been suppressed by an anti-magic field). I believe this is incorrect but I could be wrong. I seem to recall a FAQ or something on it. I'm going to go looking for actual proof here, so don't jump all over me just yet. What I recall is that the spell slots are not available to you, but do come back with the same spells still prep'd in them. Edit: I can't seem to find it, but I do recall reading something like this. At this point however I think it would have come from a non-binding source and as such, one that GMs can choose not to use.
King Kashue 06-19-07, 06:16 PM	I believe this is incorrect but I could be wrong. I seem to recall a FAQ or something on it. I'm going to go looking for actual proof here, so don't jump all over me just yet. I thought so too, but I looked through the FAQ, DCs and both the PHB Errata and MM Errata and found nada...If you can find something, let me know.
Timlagor 06-19-07, 07:48 PM	I thought they came back not 'empty' but 'spent' -ie you needed the rest/meditation/prayer session before you could use them again. However I do seem to recall something about negative levels and lost spells which might be pertinent.
King Kashue 06-19-07, 09:39 PM	I thought they came back not 'empty' but 'spent' -ie you needed the rest/meditation/prayer session before you could use them again. Ugh, that's even nastier to the Druid... In any case, I didn't find anything to that effect either...
bitznarf 06-19-07, 09:55 PM	Ugh, that's even nastier to the Druid... In any case, I didn't find anything to that effect either... I would look at as the same as putting an item on the first time: you would need to rest for 8 hours while wearing the item prior to selecting your spells for the day.
King Kashue 06-19-07, 10:30 PM	I would look at as the same as putting an item on the first time: you would need to rest for 8 hours while wearing the item prior to selecting your spells for the day. Well, since divine casters don't need to rest at all, and pray for spells at a specific time of day no matter the circumstances, I'm not sure that's correct. The FAQ says you need to "To get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations for spellcasting." (FAQ 7.5 p.54) The daily preparations for spellcasting for a druid or cleric is merely pray at a certain time. And according to the PHB, if something prevents the normal prayer time, it can be (and must be) done at the earliest opportunity. We agree it's as if you just gained the slots, which means one of two things: 1. You treat them as slots you could not fill at your normal time, and if you spend the time immediately, you can fill them 2. You treat them as slots you chose not to fill at the normal time, and you have to wait until your next prayer time to fill them. Neither is specifically prescribed.