Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beyowulf 09-01-06, 08:16 PM	For a Cleric 1/Favored Soul X combo,... Cleric for the domain, Favored Soul for the actual spell-casting ability. Would the ability to Turn Undead improve as the Favored Soul's level increase? Would level dependant domain(Such as Travel or Protection) abilities increase as the Favored Soul increases in level? Can a Cleric/Favored Soul cast domain spells equal in level that are above her Wisdom + 10, but are less than her Charisma +10? Would spell lists need to be separate? Would caster level stack? I would think so, since they're both divine casters.
Arvagor 09-01-06, 09:28 PM	In order: No No No Yes No You're really better off thinking of the Favored Soul as more of a divine sorcerer, as opposed to a spontaneous casting cleric. It makes things much easier in the long run...
echoota 09-01-06, 09:48 PM	Yeah, unfortunately their abilities don't really stack and instead run on two different tracks. You would have quite a few spells to cast each day, but since the two classes levels don't stack you'd need to alternate between each class to be able to get more powerful spells and be able to turn undead more effectively. I'd imagine that this combo would only be of use in some kind of complex dipping fashion. It's the same problem with a wizard/sorcerer combo, you're dividing your spell stat into two and you'd need to alternate between the two classes to get the most of each spell list. At low levels you might do pretty well with all of those spells, but as you get up in levels you'd be weak on both sides and not able to ultimately deal with high powered monsters.
Sieylianna 09-01-06, 10:08 PM	Yeah, unfortunately their abilities don't really stack and instead run on two different tracks. You would have quite a few spells to cast each day, but since the two classes levels don't stack you'd need to alternate between each class to be able to get more powerful spells and be able to turn undead more effectively A one level dip in cleric would be helpful in allowing the favored soul to qualify for prestige classes, since almost all require the ability to turn undead or knowledge religion. Ed
Samwise 09-02-06, 11:36 AM	The turning ability also lets a Favored Soul pick up metamagic feats and Divine Metamagic. I've considered something like myself.
Galvin 09-04-06, 12:43 PM	This is really only a good combo if you plan to burn all your feats for quicken spells.
Mommy was an Orc 09-04-06, 01:48 PM	I'd avoid it. The odd levels aren't bad, but some of the even ones are going to be nightmarish. If I were going to do it regardless, I'd make sure to pick up a deity with Nobility as one of your domain choices. That gets you a pretty impressive 1/day ability to buff your party if you have a high charisma. Pelor with Nobility and Sun for Radiant Servant of Pelor(and the resulting proficiency with all armor and martial weapons) or Kord for Greatsword, Luck, and Nobility both are interesting options.
beyowulf 09-04-06, 02:35 PM	So leaving out Cleric, and going strict Favored Soul, any suggestions for Feats. This will be for a henchman, BTW, strictly buffing and healing I heard that there was a feat that allowed you to take 10 on Concentration checks if you're holding a Shield. I think its name was Shielded Caster Also I heard there was a feat that allows you to turn touch spells into rays. Anyone know what its name is? Any other suggestions for feats? Or just plain advice.
DuctShuiTengu 09-04-06, 04:56 PM	Shielded Casting (RoS) causes you to not provoke AoOs when casting if you're using a shield Reach Spell is from CD. For Favored Soul, I'd avoid going into PrCs. Also, (especially since it's a cohort) sacrifice Wisdom and just plan on not using spells that allow saving throws.
beyowulf 09-04-06, 06:49 PM	Shielded Casting (RoS) causes you to not provoke AoOs when casting if you're using a shield Hmm..think maybe I'am confusing it with Steady Casting?
serow_#R 09-05-06, 04:41 AM	i think it's Steady Concentration from RoS take 10 on Concentration checks
Kheldren 09-05-06, 05:44 AM	I have a Barbarian 2/Favoured Soul 3 going on up FS (of Kord - hence the Barb levels). There are a fair number of times when I have wished I had gone Cleric 1 instead. Yes, one level of cleric is nearly useless for most things, but Divine Metamagic is the reason for it. You get as many Turn attempts as a pure cleric, and with them being wasted on undead (as turning is at level 1) you can happily use them all to power metamagic. One not to go for though, is quicken spell, as it doesn;t work for spontaneous casters...
Samwise 09-05-06, 02:10 PM	One not to go for though, is quicken spell, as it doesn;t work for spontaneous casters... Actually, if you are willing to burn the feats on extra turning, it will, or at least should, work with Divine Metamagic. Divine Metamagic says you add the metamagic feat as a free action to the spell you are casting. It makes no distinction between a memorized spell and a spontaneously cast spell, and it assigns a specific amount of time (said free action) to add the feat. This should override the standard limitation of Quicken Spell because the restriction is based on adding the feat increasing the casting time. This doesn't. That's why I suggested it in the first place, to get spontaneous spells with metamagic feats. Of course, I'd probably go for other metamagic feats instead, to get more of them. I suppose the question is how that limit should interact with new feats added later, like Divine Metamagic, or the Accelerated Metamagic in Races of the Dragon. Given that the Sudden (Metamagic) feats can be applied to spontaneous spells without increasing their casting time. (At least one hopes, as their descriptions say nothing about casting time, just preparing them ahead of time and spell level.)
Mommy was an Orc 09-05-06, 02:54 PM	Actually, if you are willing to burn the feats on extra turning, it will, or at least should, work with Divine Metamagic. I can see the logic both ways: Pro: Divine Metamagic says it applies the feat as a free action. Con: Sudden Feats specifically say specially preparing it ahead of time is not required, where Divine Metamagic does not. One could interpret that to mean the feat, once applied, behaves normally(aka full round action)
chesspiece 09-05-06, 03:39 PM	I can see the logic both ways: Pro: Divine Metamagic says it applies the feat as a free action. Con: Sudden Feats specifically say specially preparing it ahead of time is not required, where Divine Metamagic does not. One could interpret that to mean the feat, once applied, behaves normally(aka full round action) The Metamagic Rods don't mention preparing ahead of time either and they are merely use-activated. But they do specify the extra time (full-round action) is required for spontaneous casters. I took this to mean that it doesn't matter how you are metamagic-ing a spell that matters, but rather the source of the spell you are metamagic-ing (whether from a prepared slot or spontaneously cast). When Judging, I would require clear text that permits you to apply metamagic without increasing the casting time. To avoid table variation, I recommend a different DMM feat. As a side note, I once saw someone post their idea of taking Sor1 so their Favoured Soul could use Arcane Preparation. Not optimized, but I didn't see anything wrong with it. Cheers, Stephen Martin
Samwise 09-05-06, 05:14 PM	I can see the logic both ways: Pro: Divine Metamagic says it applies the feat as a free action. Con: Sudden Feats specifically say specially preparing it ahead of time is not required, where Divine Metamagic does not. One could interpret that to mean the feat, once applied, behaves normally(aka full round action) Well there is the thing on Con. If you read it that way, the Sudden Feats don't say they change the time to apply the feat. That means by that reading, a warmage using them must take a full round action to apply a sudden feat. Since that is rather oxymoronic, it suggests that indeed, you can apply metamagic feats to spontaneous spells in some circumstances without increasing the casting time. This would also apply to Accelerated Metamagic from Races of the Dragon (as I noted), and is further supported by Duskblades (even if they aren't in LG yet). At least that seems right to me.
Samwise 09-05-06, 09:28 PM	Well, I wrote CustServ, and I guess I wasn't being too literal about the Sudden <Metamagic> spells, though that means I am wrong about Divine Metamagic and spontaneous spells. Divine Metamagic, while a free action itself, doesn't change the increase in casting time of applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, it will still take a full round action. Accelerated Metamagic specifically changes that, so it will also work with Quicken Spell. (And, if you are willing to burn a level on Sorcerer and a feat on Draconic Heritage, will work for Divine spells as I well. I like to kill multiple birds with one stone, so I asked about that too.) Further, the Sudden <Metamagic> feats will in fact add to the casting time of a spontaneously cast spell. I am asking again about how that applies to Warmages. Hmmm . . .
Samwise 09-06-06, 01:02 PM	Well I got my follow reply and, Yes indeed, a warmage using a Sudden <Metamagic> feat takes a full round action to cast the spell, as does a sorcerer, or any other spontaneous caster using one of those feats. I expect that will be a bit more shocking than any discussion of a Cleric using Divine Metamagic on Favored Soul spells. :P So look for access to Accelerated Metamagic, and get ready to blow two feats and a level on Sorcerer if you want to go for the spontaneous metamagic power play. :D
Mommy was an Orc 09-06-06, 01:49 PM	Wow...For some reason, I was under the impression that Warmages got Sudden Quicken, but I see now that they don't. Good - the major thing I think that affects in LG is annoying NPC 7th+ level Warmages. Yes indeed, a warmage using a Sudden <Metamagic> feat takes a full round action to cast the spell, as does a sorcerer, or any other spontaneous caster using one of those feats.