Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gamegeezer 01-12-05, 10:00 AM	Hello All, It has been a quite a few years since I played, and have just recently discovered Living Greyhawk (played my first game last november & 4 more adventures since :D ). Prestige classes are all new to me, and after looking through the Complete Fighter, I'm wondering which prestige class you would recommened for a 1/2 orc fighter (damage dealer). All of you feedback is much appreciated. ~Jim
DuctShuiTengu 01-12-05, 03:10 PM	let's see... Prestige Classes for a Half-Orc Fighter. I like the Bear Warrior class, but it requires you to be able to Rage or Frenzy (easy enough to pick up by taking a level of Barbarian, but if you don't want to go that route) and while I haven't seen an official ruling to this effect, I'm fairly certain that being in bear form would mean you wouldn't be able to use two-handed weapons, which limits the benefits of the higher strength bonuses. Cavalier is interesting, but only if your character does lots of mounted combat. I personally like the Dervish, but with its restrictions on armor and feats that require a minimum of 13 dex and int, it's probably not the best class for a half-orc. Exotic Weapon Master can be good for a level or two if you decided to specialize in the use of an exotic weapon of some sort. Eye of Gruumsh and Frenzied Berserker aren't allowed, or I'd suggest looking at one of those. Knight Protector looks interesting, but seems more oriented toward defense than offense. Occult Slayer can be good, although I'd only take one or two levels of it. And I mostly recommend it for characters who are using a double-weapon (an extra 1d6 on each attack can really add up) or specializing in archery (manyshot and vicious strike can make a nasty combination for disrupting spells and dropping their casters. Where else are you going to 1d8+1d6+strength * 4 out of a standard action?) Ravagers aren't allowed in LG either. Reaping Mauler is interesting if you're going for a character who does lots of grappling. Not knowing more about your character, there's limits to how much help I can be, but... have you considered the Barbarian class? Rage, Trap Sense, Uncanny Dodge, and Damage Reduction can be pretty potent. Although I understand if you're trying to avoid the Half-Orc Barbarian cliche.
Kulthos 01-12-05, 03:31 PM	I liked my 3.0 Knight protector for one main reason, Will Saves. He got good will saves and that was very important later on. The Defensive blow power comes into play more often than you would think in a "good" campaign. Anytime you are guarding a caravan, saving someone, defending someone, blah blah you get the bonus, whih is very nice. I would suggest going with the spiked chain to cleave as effectively as possible.
gamegeezer 01-12-05, 05:21 PM	Thanks DuctShuiTengu & Kulthos, I would like my 1/2 Orc to be a bit unpredictable... (so at this point I'm avoiding barbarian). My first (2nd & 3rd) trips through the Complete Warrior did not have anything that just jumped out at me. I'm gonna take a second look at Knight Protector, and I'm not buit for Dervish (would need a bit more int)... I'm looking for an uber build, but trying to find an interesting combo (something fun to play)... Maybe I'll add Cleric (but I have a low wis). I appreciate the suggestions and welcome anyothers. I didn't start this character with the future in mind, but just to play my first game of LG (and 5 games later he's 3rd level ;) ) ~Thanks, Jim
powell01 01-15-05, 11:51 PM	Just a thought that I have been looking at for my new Dwarf Barbarian\fighter is. 2 Barb 4 Fighter, 1 Bard (skill points), 1 Exotic Weapon master (for uncanny Blow) 1 Occult Slayer, Get imp toughness and extra Rage plus all the pre-req's for the prestige classes and you have a handy dandy mage killer, especially if you get your hands on the Elusive target feat. Maybe that will help.
eyes_of_urza 01-24-05, 06:49 PM	Try also having a very good read of some of the feats in the book, as some of them can be really good. As for something unpredictable, try this little gem: Fighter6/Barbarian1/BearWarriorX Feats include: Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute, Extra Rage, Clever Wrestling, Improved Toughness. Additional Miscellaneous Feats if you have any to spare. The thing that surprises in this build is that many people forget that you can power attack with Improved unarmed strikes and natural weapons. In a grapple, you can declare your power attack and get the damage even though you are not making an attack but making an opposed grapple check. can you say : Bear Claw Noogie! :D Method: Charge, Grapple. Second round delcare power attack to activate Combat Brute and grapple to damage with your absurd modifier
CSHunt68 01-25-05, 06:36 PM	The thing that surprises in this build is that many people forget that you can power attack with Improved unarmed strikes and natural weapons. In a grapple, you can declare your power attack and get the damage even though you are not making an attack but making an opposed grapple check. can you say : Bear Claw Noogie! :D Where do the rules state that you can use Power Attack in a Grapple? The PHB states that this feat applies to "melee attack rolls". IMO, grapple checks are not equivalent to "melee attack rolls". There's nothing in the FAQ about this. I think it's arguable at best, without supporting documentation.
Artexerxees 01-25-05, 08:14 PM	As I recall in the frequently asked questions under the Monk section. You can not mix unarmed strikes with natural weapons. Hense, a Vampiric Monk cannot even drain you mixed with unarmed strikes.
King Kashue 01-26-05, 02:34 AM	Power attack lets you 'subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls'...Since doing damage with a grapple check is not a 'melee damage roll', then you cannot use power attack to increase grapple damage...
arcayne_1 02-22-05, 08:38 AM	This PrC from the supplement, Races of Destiny is pretty nifty. You get to unload heaping gobs of whupass and even better, get to share some of that ginsu action with your fellow adventurers. My primary character is a half-orc fighter/paladin/warmaster (6/5/4). Since warmaster is going the way of all good PrC's (thanks again for that, bastidges, he said while shaking impotent fists at the Circle), I get to convert. Last conversion, an acquaintance of mine took his 9th level forsaker and converted him into a 9th level wizard. I am not looking to do something so drastic. I made the character Kellerdain to be a hero of the people and a commander of troops. The Outcast Champion, coupled witha few levels of tactical soldier, seems to have some promise. A frigging shame they don't allow Chameleons, though... -Pete Hello All, It has been a quite a few years since I played, and have just recently discovered Living Greyhawk (played my first game last november & 4 more adventures since :D ). Prestige classes are all new to me, and after looking through the Complete Fighter, I'm wondering which prestige class you would recommened for a 1/2 orc fighter (damage dealer). All of you feedback is much appreciated. ~Jim
Terraneaux 03-02-05, 12:20 AM	Seriously, for pure damage dealing, you go straight fighter. At 6th level you can take two Tactical feats, the ones I would suggest being Elusive Target (For defense versus anyone who power attacks you as well as rogues) and Combat Brute (For dishing out the damage as well as sundering, a very powerful tactic).
King Kashue 03-02-05, 03:09 PM	Seriously, for pure damage dealing, you go straight fighter. At 6th level you can take two Tactical feats, the ones I would suggest being Elusive Target (For defense versus anyone who power attacks you as well as rogues) and Combat Brute (For dishing out the damage as well as sundering, a very powerful tactic). The best pure damage dealing needs a level of barbarian...Rage cannot be underestimated...For a two-handed power attacker, Raging translates into +7 damage without changing the statistical chances to hit...you can't get than any other way... As for sundering, a great tactic, just not in Living Greyhawk...If you sunder the bad guy's weapon, you're sundering your (and the whole party's) gold reward...
DuctShuiTengu 03-02-05, 10:30 PM	Alright, got Complete Adventurer a few days ago and, since this thread seems to still be active, I'll go through and give my assessment of some of the more melee-oriented classes from there. Animal Lord: I like it, enough that I'm going wolflord with my Ranger, but that's largely because I was meeting all the prereqs for it anyway and decided that the abilities it added on would do more for me than continuing to split my attention between Ranger and Fighter. Dunno that it would necessarily add much for you though. Beastmaster: Good BAB, nice if you want an entire pack of animal companions (although in my experience, this tactic tends to annoy fellow players to no end), but personally, I'm not really seeing that it's worth the requirements. Although that could just be because I don't like taking Skill Focus. Bloodhound: probably more useful for a Ranger than a Fighter, since that at least gets you 2 of the 3 skills needed as class skills, along with getting you both of the necessary feats for free. Dread Pirate: interesting, but something tells me that you'd have a bit of trouble getting the necessary skills, to say nothing of how little use Weapon Finesse generally is to Half-Orc characters. Ghost Faced Killer: Nice, but not allowed in LG. Moving on. Highland Stalker: Nice, but 3 cross-class skills needed at 8 along with the skirmish or sneak attack requirement pretty-well rules this one out for a fighter. (As a side note, anyone else catch the problem with their sample character for this class?) Nightsong Enforcer: looks interesting, but probably not really suited either. Shadowbane Inquisitor: interesting, but with the requirements on this one, you may not want to go for it either. I like it though. Streetfighter: Good, but given your character's stated Int problems, not really a viable option. Tempest: if you're going for 2 weapon fighting and can meet the prereq's, I can't recommend this one enough. Otherwise, it really doesn't offer anything. Wild Plains Outrider: Again, interesting, but of limited usefulness given what I know of the build you have so far. Sorry, but I'm not finding anything terribly promising here either.
kjenks 03-03-05, 10:03 AM	Power attack lets you 'subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls'...Since doing damage with a grapple check is not a 'melee damage roll', then you cannot use power attack to increase grapple damage... So what is it? Ranged damage? But seriously, in grapple step 3 the PH says, "If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike." The Power Attack feat description says it does add bonus damage to unarmed strike (it's worded poorly as an exception to the light exception). And damage while grappling (step 3 or Damage Your Opponent) is like an unarmed strike. So I'd have to conclude that Power Attack does give you a damage bonus. But I don't think you can get something for nothing here. I'm pretty sure the Power Attack penalty should apply to your grapple checks. Grapple checks are a strange beast. The PH and 3e FAQ say they are like a melee attack roll. CW seems to agree. The 3.5e FAQ implies in one place that they are like melee attack rolls (the "grapple while prone" entry has a -4 on grapple checks while prone, implying that they are like a melee attack roll) and in another place says that they are NOT like a melee attack (the Vow of Poverty entry). This rule confusion seems to represent a fundamental disagreement between the people who write the rules. They don't seem to have gotten together to make up their minds about exactly how grapple really works. The PH says flat-out, "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll." You would think there isn't much room for ambiguity there, but how much is it like a melee attack roll, and in what ways is it unlike a melee attack roll? And what about bonuses and penalties that would melee attacks -- do they also apply to grapple checks? The example from the Main 3.5e FAQ mentions a -4 on an opposed grapple check when attacking from prone. That -4 penalty should only apply to a melee attack, not to an opposed Strength check or other check. If a grapple check is NOT really like a melee attack roll, it appears that one can use Power Attack with great benefits (adding bonus damage to unarmed strike) and little penalty (since Power Attack gives a penalty to all attack rolls, but does nothing to opposed Strength checks or the like). What about other attack modifiers like flanking, prone opponent, charging, morale, luck, enhancement? The mancatcher (an exotic weapon described in Complete Warrior, page 157) allows the wielder to add his weapon enhancement bonus and Weapon Focus to opposed grapple checks. The rules state in almost every place that a grapple check is like a melee attack roll, and it works almost exactly like a melee attack roll, including auto-hit and threaten on a natural 20, auto-miss on a natural 1, and all bonuses and penalties that would normally apply to a melee attack roll, except for that pesky "Vow of Poverty" entry in the Main 3.5e FAQ. Unfortunately, it's the most recent rule on the subject (by Andy, the new Sage), so it carries a lot of weight. I believe that a grapple check is like a melee attack roll and all penalties and bonuses that would apply to a melee attack roll -- including the Power Attack penalty -- also apply to grapple checks. But I'm willing to accept a judge's informed opinion in any case because I can see how the rules are ambiguous. In conclusion, if you take a penalty from all of your attack rolls (including your grapple checks) you can get a one-for-one bonus on your damage rolls while grappling. That actually balances out pretty well in practice because that penalty lasts until your next round, making it easier for the defender to escape the grapple on his turn.
King Kashue 03-03-05, 02:49 PM	So what is it? Ranged damage? But seriously, in grapple step 3 the PH says, "If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike." Under grappling, "Damage Your Opponent" (phb.156) states "While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack." Not "make an opposed grapple check as an attack", the grapple check is "in place of"...Now, I don't see a problem with interpreting it the way you are (in that I think it would be perfectly balanced in most instances), however, I do think it's wrong :D As for the "equivalent" and "as if" when talking about damage, those are substitutors, not links...If the grapple damage was unarmed strike damage it would say "deal damage to the target as an unarmed strike"...It's not an unarmed strike, which is why the phrase "as if" is in there...
kjenks 03-03-05, 10:28 PM	Ah, so grapple damage is not melee damage because... it's like an unarmed strike, not exactly the same as an unarmed strike mind you, but just enough like unarmed strike to be called equivalent to an unarmed strike, yet not quite so much like an unarmed strike that the Power Attack damage bonus would apply. I see your logic now. It's perfectly clear. :D
King Kashue 03-04-05, 01:45 AM	Ah, so grapple damage is not melee damage because... it's like an unarmed strike, not exactly the same as an unarmed strike mind you, but just enough like unarmed strike to be called equivalent to an unarmed strike, yet not quite so much like an unarmed strike that the Power Attack damage bonus would apply. I see your logic now. It's perfectly clear. :D The damage is equivalent to that of an unarmed strike (meaning it is an equal amount), the grapple check is in place of an attack (meaning one replaces the other)...Granted it's an issue of language, but considering it's a matter of written rules, language is kind of important... :D
Ivid 03-04-05, 05:12 AM	Just to leave my mark here. :D Definitely Boar Warrior, or, if it's allowed, try multiclassing a Fighter with the Sage class. The different language abilities can really come in handy... Currently DMing a player with a half orc fighter 6/ sage 4 charcter... Maybe it's only because of the exceptional abilities of that player, but with that concept he really rocks!
King Kashue 03-04-05, 03:08 PM	Just to leave my mark here. :D Definitely Boar Warrior, or, if it's allowed, try multiclassing a Fighter with the Sage class. The different language abilities can really come in handy... Currently DMing a player with a half orc fighter 6/ sage 4 charcter... Maybe it's only because of the exceptional abilities of that player, but with that concept he really rocks! Do you mean "Bear Warrior"? As for the sage class, it's not part of Living Greyhawk (off hand, I don't even know what book it's in)...Are you referring to Loremaster?
Ivid 03-05-05, 05:00 AM	:king: Typing can be realy difficult... of course I referred to the Bear Warrior... The sage - *I am no LG, but classic Greyhawk DM that uses to borrowfrom any game supplement he finds* The sage is a character that focuses on the non-magical sciences like *craftmanship, *alchemy* and literature. In short, kind of intellectual for D&D. Can really be of use because he is supposed to know many languages and a great deal of history. IMC, I use the version from the Wilderlands Gaz, but there is also a *more pragmatic* version on Canonfire! for GH. http://www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=744&sid=e8b209fe8e9d563f2d9bec4df090a74f What aboutincluding such a figure in the next rules update? Or does it already exist? :)
King Kashue 03-05-05, 12:55 PM	:king: Typing can be realy difficult... of course I referred to the Bear Warrior... The sage - *I am no LG, but classic Greyhawk DM that uses to borrowfrom any game supplement he finds* The sage is a character that focuses on the non-magical sciences like *craftmanship, *alchemy* and literature. In short, kind of intellectual for D&D. Can really be of use because he is supposed to know many languages and a great deal of history. IMC, I use the version from the Wilderlands Gaz, but there is also a *more pragmatic* version on Canonfire! for GH. http://www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=744&sid=e8b209fe8e9d563f2d9bec4df090a74f What aboutincluding such a figure in the next rules update? Or does it already exist? :) Well, not to be territorial or anything, but this is a Living Greyhawk board...Stuff that can't be done in Living Greyhawk may be interesting, but it essentially just confusing for those who aren't as familiar with the rules...
Ivid 03-05-05, 02:38 PM	Of course you are right, I should not have posted on this without knowing the rules so far... But, AFAIK, can't every Core Class be included in a Living game? *I thought so* - If not, then please, accept my excuses. I was under a misconception. :)
King Kashue 03-05-05, 03:35 PM	Of course you are right, I should not have posted on this without knowing the rules so far... But, AFAIK, can't every Core Class be included in a Living game? *I thought so* - If not, then please, accept my excuses. I was under a misconception. :) Nope...Living Greyhawk has a whole sourcebook on what's allowed and not, what's considered valid and how it works into the campaign... Some of the other campaigns are quite a bit looser, but since Living Greyhawk is so big, the effort has been put in (by a lot of folks) to ensure a balanced game experience...
Ivid 03-06-05, 05:49 AM	Nope...Living Greyhawk has a whole sourcebook on what's allowed and not, what's considered valid and how it works into the campaign... Some of the other campaigns are quite a bit looser, but since Living Greyhawk is so big, the effort has been put in (by a lot of folks) to ensure a balanced game experience... :tiphat: