Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 02-08-07, 06:01 PM	Um, my first impression is... The bad: ======= Alter Self, Polymorph, Divine Metamagic, Divine Spell Power, Arcane Thesis, Robilar's Gambit, etc... You want this for your PC? Sorry, it's too powerful. Oh you meant you wanted it for your NPC? Sure it's perfectly balanced. Too powerful..isn't it well..too powerful? The not so bad: ============ Beguiler. Knight. Blessed Book. Heward's Handy Haversack. Take the cake away and give a cookie. :) Too early to tell how the new classes are going to be, I actually never played them in a home game.
bitznarf 02-08-07, 06:04 PM	You want this for your PC? Sorry, it's too powerful. Oh you meant you wanted it for your NPC? Sure it's perfectly balanced. Too powerful..isn't it well..too powerful? This one is one of my pet peeves personally. That said I haven't looked at the lists in detail to see which ones are 'author only'. -Dale
boolean 02-08-07, 06:41 PM	The bad: ======= Alter Self, Polymorph, Divine Metamagic, Divine Spell Power, Arcane Thesis, Robilar's Gambit, etc... Of all the closed items, only the items with the dagger symbol are available to authors. None of these items have that symbol. Therefore, none of those items are available for NPCs either.
solbergb 02-08-07, 07:02 PM	Taken as a whole, this is a tremendous piece of work and a serious improvement. I think a few details could be better clarified but lets look at what they did. 1. handled the stupid polymorph eratta 2. figured out how to release large numbers of feats without forcing a rebuild, and also how to let people enjoy any AR access they get perfect for their character via the retraining rules 3. Opened access to more books WITHOUT instantly powering up all the clerics and druids via larger spell access 4. Fixed the item access AND upgrade issues with basic items 5. Narrowed the gap for CWI and improved other crafting feats
copper_wyrmling 02-08-07, 07:41 PM	I agree with solbergb. I was really hoping for the retraining rules or something similar, but expecting to be disappointed, so I was absolutely delighted to see that they'd made it in :cloud9: I was also pleasantly surprised at the length of the new document: when I first finished reading it I thought they'd accidentally snipped off the second half ;) Generally, :clap:
Haro 02-08-07, 07:49 PM	Yup, I also thought it was excellent. There are a couple of changes which negatively affect my PCs but I fully appreciate the potential for abuse of DMM, DSP and others. Bearing in mind the excellent additions (plus the addition by substraction of the document length), the Circle have my overwhelming approval. Joe
Mithreinmaethor 02-08-07, 08:40 PM	I love it. Just wish I could rebuild my mutt character :) He woulda been a straight Beguiler had it been avail last year. Oh well. I will find something to do with him
UMiskatonic 02-08-07, 08:47 PM	Excellent. I'm happy to see the immense amount of work done by all our volunteers. Thank you. While yes, there are some things I would have done differently if I were the king, I'm glad that I don't have that job, as it's a ton of work. It also comes with an immense amount of bellyaching, as soon as anything is changed, and I appreciate the patience of the campaign staff with the more childish members of the community. Cheers, UM
cycloptic_squirrel 02-08-07, 09:09 PM	Excellent. I'm happy to see the immense amount of work done by all our volunteers. Thank you. While yes, there are some things I would have done differently if I were the king, I'm glad that I don't have that job, as it's a ton of work. It also comes with an immense amount of bellyaching, as soon as anything is changed, and I appreciate the patience of the campaign staff with the more childish members of the community. Cheers, UM I am NOT being childish! :tantrum: Wait, I mean, 'Yes I agree with your accertation. First-rate work on the LGCS draft. Tally-ho!'. :shifty:
Mommy was an Orc 02-09-07, 09:00 AM	I have to agree with this - really good job. A lot of the things I wanted to see gone were and the Circle nicely addressed my concerns about the 3rd level rule, both in new players and casters. Even Pounce took a ding via the Polymorph/Druid rules. Great work!
solbergb 02-09-07, 09:35 AM	Yup...my pouncekitty won't be able to stack nature's favor on her pounces, should she ever reach level 9 before the rules change again :) OTOH, at the tender level of 3, she gets a total rebuild. I don't think I will change much if anything, but I'll look over it all again. The option to rebuild a feat may push bull rush out till level 8 or so, letting me have something more useful in the baby levels. (although bull rushing a wizard's cat familiar out of range of all its buffs after it had the temerity to attack ME was pretty fun)
Rerednaw 02-09-07, 09:48 AM	Of all the closed items, only the items with the dagger symbol are available to authors. None of these items have that symbol. Therefore, none of those items are available for NPCs either. I stand most pleasantly corrected. That's what I get for trying to skim this at work. :D Of course, I still haven't forgiven them for the warlock. I am most pleased with the abolition of the 3rd level rule. As for closing may of the other very useful class abilities. I personally don't like restricting anything but I can live with it as long as it stays even handed. I've never taken any of the so called 'cheese' effects in LG either. Not even Alter Self.
amnuxoll 02-09-07, 07:53 PM	This is without a doubt the best LGCS I've seen. It's concise and clear and fair. The only thing I am disappointed by is the loss of the 3rd level rule but it's a small price to pay for everything else. The best measure of LGCS quality is by how much howling the cheese weasels do and *boy* are they howling. Don't worry though. Cheese weasels are like herpes. They always come back. ;) Kudos to the Circle for the LGCS and huge respect for Britt for putting up with all the kavetching with such aplomb. :AMN:
Shieldhart91 02-11-07, 03:59 AM	Polymorph was Wisconsin. How cheesy you say? Chester Cheese uses it. It's on Hungry Howie's when you order triple-cheese-stacker. It's where Philadelphia gets their supply from. Too many power gamers rocked polymorph's world, and it makes other characters pale in comparison. It's awesome the first time you see it...but man...after a while, it makes my tank look like a Level 5 Pile of Dirt.
Mystical_Tutor 02-11-07, 01:50 PM	Ah, ok let me throw in a true 'first impression' and hope I don't get slamdunked. My first impression is that, given the gold, my fighter can go out and buy a +5 greatsword without ever having seen one (in terms of any kind of + greatsword being on any of his ARs). Next, that if I take the CWI feat I can't make anything that doesn't specifically show up on one of my ARs. That with any creation feat I am not able to upgrade anything unless I have 'upgrade' access on an AR (which means I may have access to a higher level item but because the AR does not specifically state that I have access to 'upgrade' to that level--I can't). That the wild shape changes made last year are now IN effect for druids. Please let me know if I am on track or wandering in the swamp (small, fluffy flame strikes are preferable). Thanks
Mystical_Tutor 02-11-07, 01:59 PM	Ooooppss! Missed the one I was going to put first. After I finish playing RHoD (assuming my toon is still alive and GH playable) I will be able to purchase any of the items listed as "Adventure" access on any of these 5 ARs after any of the next three adventures I play. <grin> I learned, as a field grade staff officer in the Army, don't tell decision makers what you like or don't like, tell em where you could go with what they have given you and see if they like that......
Mithreinmaethor 02-11-07, 02:09 PM	Ah, ok let me throw in a true 'first impression' and hope I don't get slamdunked. My first impression is that, given the gold, my fighter can go out and buy a +5 greatsword without ever having seen one (in terms of any kind of + greatsword being on any of his ARs). Next, that if I take the CWI feat I can't make anything that doesn't specifically show up on one of my ARs. That with any creation feat I am not able to upgrade anything unless I have 'upgrade' access on an AR (which means I may have access to a higher level item but because the AR does not specifically state that I have access to 'upgrade' to that level--I can't). That the wild shape changes made last year are now IN effect for druids. Please let me know if I am on track or wandering in the swamp (small, fluffy flame strikes are preferable). Thanks #1 On target #2 You can craft anything that is an open item (i.e Gauntlets of Ogrepower or Belt of Giant Strength etc) #3 Not sure aboout upgrade stuff havent really read that #4 Right on about wildshape
solbergb 02-11-07, 02:57 PM	#3....anyone can upgrade, if an upgrade is possible Crafters just do it cheaper, and with a little more flexibiilty. Noncrafters must have access to both the before and after item. Crafters must have access to the before item and a similar after item. For something like belt of strength+4 to +6, both can do that just fine, as it is open access to everybody. Crafters save money, pay XP+TU. This means they can have two +6 items, the noncrafter one, and are down a bit of xp and time compared to noncrafter. For something like this, it's a bit different. Tordek finds a +1 flaming longsword. He can upgrade his +1 longsword into the +1 flaming longsword for 6000gp (he no longer has to sell back his +1 longsword for 1000gp and pay 8000gp for the found one). If the flaming longsword is just adventure access though, his opportunity for upgrade is gone in a few adventures. Tordek can NOT upgrade his +1 dwarf waraxe to flaming though. Whatever deal he's made with friendly spellcasters doesn't extend to that kind of variation. Lets say Mialee has craft arms and armor and Fireball spell in her spellbook. She finds a +1 flaming longsword. She wants to make a +1 flaming crossbow, for her own use if short on spells, or to loan out if needed. She can do so, because she just needs the flaming enchantment on her AR to open access for crafting. That is I *think* how it works. If I'm wrong, I'm not wrong by much.
RedKnightofKet 02-11-07, 03:39 PM	Ooooppss! Missed the one I was going to put first. After I finish playing RHoD (assuming my toon is still alive and GH playable) I will be able to purchase any of the items listed as "Adventure" access on any of these 5 ARs after any of the next three adventures I play. <grin> I learned, as a field grade staff officer in the Army, don't tell decision makers what you like or don't like, tell em where you could go with what they have given you and see if they like that...... Ummm... no. Red Hand of Doom, while one big adventure, contains 5 ARs - each part is a separate answer. I believe there was a DC on this very topic. Counting the entire module as one adventure is far too problematic - that would mean that you can only craft before part one (since it's all one "adventure", along with other limitations on the term "adventure". Each part as one "adventure" is perfectly reasonable and easier to keep track of.
clannagh 02-11-07, 05:18 PM	one great thing about the upgrade rules is it will likely get rid of the current swag of old items that cause something akin to a vintage car swap meet at the start of some higher level mods "here you use my old +4 con amulet as I a have a +6 now meanwhile I will borrow your old .... "
Genghis Cohen 02-11-07, 07:56 PM	So Thursday night at Neutral Ground (where we play LG every single week except for Thanksgiving) a bunch of people asked me if i was upset because my 10th level Druid has to deal with the new polymorph errata. They were surpised when I told them I was happy with the new LGCS. My Druid was my first character in over 20 years, so I made mistakes with the build. Also, he's a summoner. I'm lowering my charisma by 2, raising my constitution by 2, dropping Natural Spell, and picking up Rapid Spell. I'm also juggling my skill points around for a lot more ranks in Spellcraft so that I can qualify for Rapid Metamagic at 12th. Then there's my second character who I rarely play because I screwed up the build really badly. Enter Retraining. I'm happier than Homer Simpson with a box of donuts and a six-pack of beer. Speaking of retraining, my third character can finally say goodbye to Cleave and say hello to Closed Quarters Combat. There's the easier crafting rules, Beguiler, and Open access for a ton of mundane items. Circle, thank you. The new format is easier to read and the changes make this a much better campaign. Especially now that we don't have to make so many excuses for our first characters being crappy because we have Retraining.
Mystical_Tutor 02-12-07, 03:43 AM	Red Hand of Doom, while one big adventure, contains 5 ARs - each part is a separate answer. I believe there was a DC on this very topic. I did ask on this board about RHoD and people reasoned much the way you do. Then comes this statement in the draft and I quote: "For the purposes of counting adventures, count each adventure only once, even if you receive multiple ARs for the adventure, such as for an optional encounter." (in reference to the meaning of "adventure" in the items found box of an AR.). If the common intretation (along the line your following) is correct, I sure hope they change this statement so GMs won't be getting hit over the head with it. The real problem, however, is that the whole issue of 'adaptable' modules needs to be addressed. A paragraph explaining things like timing and access would be time well spent--to avoid time wasted later.
chesspiece 02-12-07, 10:03 AM	Keep in mind that addition to 5 ARs (for the 5 parts), RHoD is scheduled & reported 5 times and it can be "interrupted" by other LG adventures. It is far more like a 5-part series of modules (that we're encouraged to play consecutively and that takes 51 TUs). At least in the way that the LG adaptation seems to handle it.
RedKnightofKet 02-12-07, 11:36 AM	I did ask on this board about RHoD and people reasoned much the way you do. Then comes this statement in the draft and I quote: "For the purposes of counting adventures, count each adventure only once, even if you receive multiple ARs for the adventure, such as for an optional encounter." (in reference to the meaning of "adventure" in the items found box of an AR.). If the common intretation (along the line your following) is correct, I sure hope they change this statement so GMs won't be getting hit over the head with it. The real problem, however, is that the whole issue of 'adaptable' modules needs to be addressed. A paragraph explaining things like timing and access would be time well spent--to avoid time wasted later. By multiple ARs, they mean oncs like "All Roads Lead to Rauxes", "Shedding Scales", "Voice of Reason", etc. Those are three retired modules (that I can think of anyway) that involved two ARs. But like chesspiece said, RHoD is, essentially, 5 adventures which can be separated by other adventures, and it can also be played by different characters, for that matter.
Mystical_Tutor 02-12-07, 01:35 PM	...RHoD is, essentially, 5 adventures which can be separated by other adventures, and it can also be played by different characters, for that matter. In our gaming community we were explicitly told (several times) that our RHoD character could NOT play in ANY other adventure once committed to RHoD. In fact the whole module has a time line that your character is part of--no 30 min break for the good life. If this is not true, than what you say would have some merit. OTOH, if what we have been told is true (and the module sure enforces that--we are running for our lives all the time with no imaginable escape to 'civilization') this is ONE adventure.
Britt 02-12-07, 01:49 PM	You can play between parts of RHoD, but you can't borrow TUs from 2008 if you do. It is highly encouraged that you do not play between parts. Each part is effectively a different adventure.
chesspiece 02-12-07, 04:40 PM	In our gaming community we were explicitly told (several times) that our RHoD character could NOT play in ANY other adventure once committed to RHoD. If you started after 1-Jan-07, you are being constrained by the 51TUs that this module requires. Or it's possible that your local Judge(s) required this agreement as a condition of running the module. Being volunteers, and committing to running such a long adventure, it is easy to imagine that they might set some conditions before accepting a group of Players & PCs. If you did play other adventures between RHoD chapters, your PC could run out of TUs or die - making it impossible for you to complete the module. That would certainly make it challenging for the Judge (and for the rest of the party) to continue to the end. But the official instructions from Circle & RPGA do not require what you said above. PCs that played a couple RHoD chapters in 2006 have TUs to spare and are able to play adventures in between. Of course it wouldn't be very realistic. It stretches disbelief to "stop the clock" on the enemy forces, sneak off halfway across Oerth for some random adventures, and pick back up as if nothing had happened. But, hey - breaking disbelief happens in LG sometimes. It's a trade-off of our global campaign.
Mystical_Tutor 02-13-07, 02:55 PM	You can play between parts of RHoD, but you can't borrow TUs from 2008 if you do. It is highly encouraged that you do not play between parts. Each part is effectively a different adventure. R O F L!!! Almost literaly in this case! I love it. As Chesspiece pointed out so well TU could be a mechanical reason for 'not being able to' do it but we dealt with that up front and started it last Oct/Nov. No. This is quite a different slant than was presented to us when we were forming up--finding players etc. I was told the above (previous post), in essence, by a Triad member and it was reinforced as an asside by another Triad memeber and we only had two Triad memeber at the time--so--for some reason I believed it. Thanks for the insight, though it makes not a lick of difference to me that the possibility exists because I agree with Chesspiece about the time warp and will try to avoid it (though with only one 6th level toon it could be *mighty* handy to have him available for an adventure) Bottom line! This only reinforces my assertion that the new LGCS would provide a service to the community by clarifying how multi-session modules work (I see support for my premice begining to crumble).
Timlagor 02-13-07, 03:33 PM	LG already has timewarps. This might be bigger but would not be really different to the warps that go on with other modules and series. Still.. it's nicer not to have them where you can avoid them.
Golorious 02-13-07, 04:40 PM	I am very pleased overall with the new LGCS. Retraining is great I have made a several bad choices in feat selection on some of my characters so that will be nice to change. (if they ever level) The polymorph stuff I'm not a huge fan of but I'm glad that we are consistent with core rules. The opening of mundane item access is very nice. Craft changes are for the most part great, but there is the small down side of the CL+2 rule being gone. I'm very happy to see cure light wounds wands as open access. The feats and PrC's that opened are quite extensive. I'm happy to see that animal companions can use any open feat they qualify for. Though I am surprised by a few of the inclusions that I thought would be too powerful. The only thing that I wish had stayed in during the discussion was to allow cohorts to have access to feats and prestige classes that the leader had. I know a few people in our area (my self included) who have access to some prc's (they don't qualify for in anyway) but would be perfect as cohorts but their cohorts did not play so they don't have access to them. Nor can they dismiss their current cohorts and get ones with the PrC which are perfect for them because cohorts don't share access with anything but items. For example Leader 78 Ar's Cohort 17 AR's, the leader has access to so much more ohh well.
ZX670 02-13-07, 05:02 PM	Of all the closed items, only the items with the dagger symbol are available to authors. None of these items have that symbol. Therefore, none of those items are available for NPCs either. Correct, which begs the question: What to do with all of the mods which have NPCs using either Polymorph or Alter Self? Of the 3 mods I ran at the convention I went to this weekend, all 3 had an NPC using either Polymorph or Alter Self in them, which will no longer be allowed. I know it's not a huge deal, just will be strange as much as it comes up when you are running mods. A lot of NPCs use this stuff.