A Measure of LG's impact [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Measure of LG's impact [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hand_OF_Mystra
02-10-07, 08:55 AM We are always wondering what contribution LG make to WoTC's sales, we would like to be important to WoTC. With the new LGCS, PHBII becomes really important. PHBII has been out nine months so the people who will buy it because they want it on its own merits have probably already bought it. It would be interesting to see what sales bump there will be in PHBII in the next couple of months. That bump should be entirely due to LG players. of course, we will never know.
Jim Cummings
solbergb
02-10-07, 11:20 AM Well I do know I got the very last copy of Complete Scoundrel at my FLGS, and they were sold out of Complete Mage, so I had to go to my second FLGS to get that, and got the very last copy of that book too.

So at least our local stores are seeing an impact. The store owners were puzzled at the sudden demand, although one had just read CS and though it was a pretty good book. (I tend to agree - lots of interesting stuff, none of it too overpowered. I liked the skill tricks, maybe they'll show up on AR access somewhere, they weren't Closed...just not Open)
Shieldhart91
02-11-07, 03:55 AM I don't think the skill tricks have been included into this LGCS: it came out a bit late for all of that to be reviewed...but the Circle and Meta-regional Triad members do work themselves to death on making us happy, so I wouldn't be totally shocked if it's in there.
kenobi65
02-12-07, 12:38 AM It would be interesting to see what sales bump there will be in PHBII in the next couple of months. That bump should be entirely due to LG players. of course, we will never know.

And, quite honestly, WotC may never know, either.

Let's say a bunch of LG players run out and buy PHBII now, at hundreds of different game stores all over the country. Depending on how many copies of the book those stores had in stock, that *might* trigger re-ordering of the book, from the stores to their distributors.

So, the distributors might notice a bump, if enough stores reorder all at once. But, depending on how many copies those distributors had in stock, they may or may not order more copies from WotC. And *that's* the only direct evidence that WotC might get.

So, unless two "mights" get triggered, WotC may never have a hard number.
bhale187
02-12-07, 08:05 AM I bought mine a few months back anticipating the next LGCS would end up using at least a portion of the book, and I play LG almost exclusively.
Probably a more accurate (but still flawed) way to determine a % of sales made to LG players would be a series of polls/surveys, and I'd assume WOTC already does so as a part of their merchandising scheme.
UMiskatonic
02-12-07, 11:53 AM The better way to measure this would be to take a random sample of RPGA members, and find out what books they own.

Use the price of the books x number of members to estimate total sales of books to RPGA members.

If you want annual sales, you'll have to divide by six, and remember that's an average. Years when the 3.5 Core books came out would be higher than average, and other years lower.
Lupo
02-12-07, 03:47 PM I bought mine a few months back anticipating the next LGCS would end up using at least a portion of the book, and I play LG almost exclusively.
Probably a more accurate (but still flawed) way to determine a % of sales made to LG players would be a series of polls/surveys, and I'd assume WOTC already does so as a part of their merchandising scheme.

i ordered the last one "in stack" from the german branch of an international online bookstore ;)
i klicked "order it" five minutes after i downloaded the draft version :P

nevermind, especially for the "rebuild" option, it is enough to have a copy at the table for the AR you are actually doing the rebuild that should not be a problem.

you only need to have a copy "always present" when you are using material from it.

ciao

martin m.
catsclaw
02-12-07, 04:28 PM The better way to measure this would be to take a random sample of RPGA members, and find out what books they own.

Use the price of the books x number of members to estimate total sales of books to RPGA members.But that's going to overestimate the impact of the RPGA. A lot of those players would have bought many of the books anyway. You couldn't even do it by randomly picking gamers, seeing what books they own, and comparing those in the RPGA to those outside of the RPGA -- because those who are heavily into D&D are more likely to be in the RPGA for the gaming opportunities anyway.

A better way of doing it is to take some suitably large number of children (1,000 or so should do it) and randomly induct half of them into the RPGA. Then check again in about 10 years, and see how many books those you inducted own compared to those you didn't.
TimRat
02-13-07, 10:02 AM Every once in a while WOTC can tell if its more than likly RPGA related that book sales have gotten better. i think it was races of the wild or some sort that had been out for a long time and then it was released on the LGCS for LG and sales numbers spiked which was directly related to it.

but in most cases the people who play RPGA games already have the books in some form. there are a lot of good books coming down the road (after looking at the last trimester products that were just released on the website)

lots of adventures that i'll have to adapt LOL.
Fleetfang
02-13-07, 10:20 AM Erik Mona has said on several occasions that when Dragon Magazine runs Greyhawk content, they see a bump in sales. The Greyhawk maps, Core Beliefs articles, Ilse of Dread, Hardby... all of those bump their sales significantly.

I actually think that the best measure of Living Greyhawk (or maybe just Greyhawk) interest will be gauged best when the Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk comes out.

And of course, due to the aforementioned distributor/store chain of demand, the best way to mark an impact and a demand for Greyhawk product would be for every LG player to preorder that book, or buy it on it's release week. Then stores will order more, distributors will order more, and WotC will see an impact.

Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone READ it right away. Judges should read it, and players should let it sit on the shelf for a while until after they play it.

But if we want Wizards to resurrect the Greyhawk brand under the flag of Greyhawk, and not some 'generic' D&D world, then that's where I think we all need to show it.
paigeoliver
02-14-07, 02:54 AM About half the people in my play group wouldn't own a single 3.5 product if it wasn't for living greyhawk, and I honestly don't think that is all that unusual. Then you have all your older players who are convention-only type of people who wouldn't have anyone to play with otherwise. Books sold to those people are LG sales too.
LGMoses
02-14-07, 09:27 AM Noone in my group used to even look at supplements. Since LG, several of us own Complete Warrior, Arcane, Mage, etc.

I bought a bunch of the eberron books so i could run Xen'drik Expeditions but now wish i hadn't.
pedr
02-14-07, 09:37 AM Heh... don't be too hating of the XE ... it looks like it's getting back on track, and certainly has some very keen factionmasters :D

It's a completely different beast to LG. I've not played enough of it, but I remember MoH and it 'felt' very different and made for a nice change from time to time :)
solbergb
02-14-07, 02:23 PM Well lets see, me and Gretchen.

Pre RPGA: 3.0 Players Handbook, 3.0 DMG, 3.5 DMG (gift...someone wanted me to start a campaign. Little did they know I'd become addicted to LG)

Post RPGA:

3.0 Players Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Manual of Plains, Sword and Fist, Tome and Blood, Song and Silence, (barbarian+druid splatbook, can't remember name), A&EG, Greyhawk Gazateer

3.5 Miniatures Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Races of Stone, Races of Destiny, Races of Wild, DMG2, PHB2, Stormwrack, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis. We've also been given the two dragon magazines with Greyhawk feats as a gift. It looks like we're forced to buy Races of Dragon because the draconic heritage feats moved there and my wife is playing a draconic sorceress.

The only thing on the above list I probably would have bought on my own is the 3.5 core rules and the Gazateer

Yeah, there is a reason RPGA doen't charge admission. Lets see, about 30 books, 30 dollars a pop, plus random miniatures buys encouraged by the hobby and we're at about $1000 added to WOTC's top line by my household, over about 4 years.
LGMoses
02-15-07, 02:55 AM Heh... don't be too hating of the XE ... it looks like it's getting back on track, and certainly has some very keen factionmasters :D

It wasn't bad, I was just tired of some new wierd monster I hadn't heard of every adventure. My group and I were fairly new to Dnd and I, as a Judge, hungered for the more classic adventuring feel of LG.

Yeah, there is a reason RPGA doen't charge admission. Lets see, about 30 books, 30 dollars a pop, plus random miniatures buys encouraged by the hobby and we're at about $1000 added to WOTC's top line by my household, over about 4 years.

Wizards is taking us all for a ride :$$: Just think of how much money they've got to be pulling in off of Dnd, Magic: Cards, and etc. It sounds like crazy money.
Paul H
02-16-07, 05:16 PM Hi

One idea would be a survey on who bought the minis - I reckon most people who buy minis are roleplayers who need to represent creatures on their battlemats etc.

Wouldn't be an exact science, though.

Cheers
Paul H
Gallaway
03-01-07, 12:45 AM It wasn't bad, I was just tired of some new wierd monster I hadn't heard of every adventure. My group and I were fairly new to Dnd and I, as a Judge, hungered for the more classic adventuring feel of LG.

Wizards is taking us all for a ride :$$: Just think of how much money they've got to be pulling in off of Dnd, Magic: Cards, and etc. It sounds like crazy money.

ah .. you should try playing games workshop games in that case old chap
LGMoses
03-01-07, 08:46 AM ah .. you should try playing games workshop games in that case old chap

A buddy of mine is actually getting me into Warhammer 40k at the moment. I'm just finishing up painting my first tactical squad of space marines.
Gallaway
03-01-07, 06:00 PM A buddy of mine is actually getting me into Warhammer 40k at the moment. I'm just finishing up painting my first tactical squad of space marines.

The whole gaming system is designed around spoilt rich kids with doting parents handing over their Amex card :) Say goodbye to any spare money for a while !!

Luckily a lot of the aforementioned spoilt rich kids get bored quite quickly and 40k miniatures and codexes turn up on ebay and so forth quite regularly at bargain prices.
Zanzibax
03-02-07, 09:48 AM Ya' know...from the title of the thread, I thought you were going to look for GWB or his Yochol Handmaiden - N. Pelosi to be talking about hobgoblins, orcs, and ogres in their political speeches.

As in...what is a measure of LG's impact on the world around us.
Gallaway
03-04-07, 06:51 PM Ya' know...from the title of the thread, I thought you were going to look for GWB or his Yochol Handmaiden - N. Pelosi to be talking about hobgoblins, orcs, and ogres in their political speeches.

As in...what is a measure of LG's impact on the world around us.

You never new George W was an old school D&D player of the charge them with a greatsword variety ?
Herrbard
03-04-07, 11:23 PM You never new George W was an old school D&D player of the charge them with a greatsword variety ?
But of course his armor isn't up to spec... :rolleyes:
Rerednaw
03-05-07, 10:30 AM Noone in my group used to even look at supplements. Since LG, several of us own Complete Warrior, Arcane, Mage, etc.

I bought a bunch of the eberron books so i could run Xen'drik Expeditions but now wish i hadn't.

Before LG: I was always the DM in our group so I had bought Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Divine and Warrior. This plus the Trinity were my 3.5 books

After LG: The race books, Draconomicon, Complete Mage, PHBII, Sandstorm, Spell Compendium, Frostburn and waaay too many minis.

Most of the time those books were bought for the 2 or 3 pages of rules referenced in a specific mod.

So yeah, LG has had a significant impact on my wallet. :)

P.S. Oh yeah, forgot I picked up the Xen'drik/Eberron stuff too. I never would have if not for RPGA.
clannagh
03-05-07, 05:04 PM [/SIZE]

Before LG: I was always the DM in our group so I had bought Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Divine and Warrior. This plus the Trinity were my 3.5 books

After LG: The race books, Draconomicon, Complete Mage, PHBII, Sandstorm, Spell Compendium, Frostburn and waaay too many minis.

Most of the time those books were bought for the 2 or 3 pages of rules referenced in a specific mod.

So yeah, LG has had a significant impact on my wallet. :)

P.S. Oh yeah, forgot I picked up the Xen'drik/Eberron stuff too. I never would have if not for RPGA.

Well when you think about you really only need one copy of the other books per group for a home game .. sometimes not even that flipping through a copy may give the GM enough ideas without anyone ever buying it.

In LG however you need copies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hand_OF_Mystra 02-10-07, 08:55 AM	We are always wondering what contribution LG make to WoTC's sales, we would like to be important to WoTC. With the new LGCS, PHBII becomes really important. PHBII has been out nine months so the people who will buy it because they want it on its own merits have probably already bought it. It would be interesting to see what sales bump there will be in PHBII in the next couple of months. That bump should be entirely due to LG players. of course, we will never know. Jim Cummings
solbergb 02-10-07, 11:20 AM	Well I do know I got the very last copy of Complete Scoundrel at my FLGS, and they were sold out of Complete Mage, so I had to go to my second FLGS to get that, and got the very last copy of that book too. So at least our local stores are seeing an impact. The store owners were puzzled at the sudden demand, although one had just read CS and though it was a pretty good book. (I tend to agree - lots of interesting stuff, none of it too overpowered. I liked the skill tricks, maybe they'll show up on AR access somewhere, they weren't Closed...just not Open)
Shieldhart91 02-11-07, 03:55 AM	I don't think the skill tricks have been included into this LGCS: it came out a bit late for all of that to be reviewed...but the Circle and Meta-regional Triad members do work themselves to death on making us happy, so I wouldn't be totally shocked if it's in there.
kenobi65 02-12-07, 12:38 AM	It would be interesting to see what sales bump there will be in PHBII in the next couple of months. That bump should be entirely due to LG players. of course, we will never know. And, quite honestly, WotC may never know, either. Let's say a bunch of LG players run out and buy PHBII now, at hundreds of different game stores all over the country. Depending on how many copies of the book those stores had in stock, that might trigger re-ordering of the book, from the stores to their distributors. So, the distributors might notice a bump, if enough stores reorder all at once. But, depending on how many copies those distributors had in stock, they may or may not order more copies from WotC. And that's the only direct evidence that WotC might get. So, unless two "mights" get triggered, WotC may never have a hard number.
bhale187 02-12-07, 08:05 AM	I bought mine a few months back anticipating the next LGCS would end up using at least a portion of the book, and I play LG almost exclusively. Probably a more accurate (but still flawed) way to determine a % of sales made to LG players would be a series of polls/surveys, and I'd assume WOTC already does so as a part of their merchandising scheme.
UMiskatonic 02-12-07, 11:53 AM	The better way to measure this would be to take a random sample of RPGA members, and find out what books they own. Use the price of the books x number of members to estimate total sales of books to RPGA members. If you want annual sales, you'll have to divide by six, and remember that's an average. Years when the 3.5 Core books came out would be higher than average, and other years lower.
Lupo 02-12-07, 03:47 PM	I bought mine a few months back anticipating the next LGCS would end up using at least a portion of the book, and I play LG almost exclusively. Probably a more accurate (but still flawed) way to determine a % of sales made to LG players would be a series of polls/surveys, and I'd assume WOTC already does so as a part of their merchandising scheme. i ordered the last one "in stack" from the german branch of an international online bookstore ;) i klicked "order it" five minutes after i downloaded the draft version :P nevermind, especially for the "rebuild" option, it is enough to have a copy at the table for the AR you are actually doing the rebuild that should not be a problem. you only need to have a copy "always present" when you are using material from it. ciao martin m.
catsclaw 02-12-07, 04:28 PM	The better way to measure this would be to take a random sample of RPGA members, and find out what books they own. Use the price of the books x number of members to estimate total sales of books to RPGA members.But that's going to overestimate the impact of the RPGA. A lot of those players would have bought many of the books anyway. You couldn't even do it by randomly picking gamers, seeing what books they own, and comparing those in the RPGA to those outside of the RPGA -- because those who are heavily into D&D are more likely to be in the RPGA for the gaming opportunities anyway. A better way of doing it is to take some suitably large number of children (1,000 or so should do it) and randomly induct half of them into the RPGA. Then check again in about 10 years, and see how many books those you inducted own compared to those you didn't.
TimRat 02-13-07, 10:02 AM	Every once in a while WOTC can tell if its more than likly RPGA related that book sales have gotten better. i think it was races of the wild or some sort that had been out for a long time and then it was released on the LGCS for LG and sales numbers spiked which was directly related to it. but in most cases the people who play RPGA games already have the books in some form. there are a lot of good books coming down the road (after looking at the last trimester products that were just released on the website) lots of adventures that i'll have to adapt LOL.
Fleetfang 02-13-07, 10:20 AM	Erik Mona has said on several occasions that when Dragon Magazine runs Greyhawk content, they see a bump in sales. The Greyhawk maps, Core Beliefs articles, Ilse of Dread, Hardby... all of those bump their sales significantly. I actually think that the best measure of Living Greyhawk (or maybe just Greyhawk) interest will be gauged best when the Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk comes out. And of course, due to the aforementioned distributor/store chain of demand, the best way to mark an impact and a demand for Greyhawk product would be for every LG player to preorder that book, or buy it on it's release week. Then stores will order more, distributors will order more, and WotC will see an impact. Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone READ it right away. Judges should read it, and players should let it sit on the shelf for a while until after they play it. But if we want Wizards to resurrect the Greyhawk brand under the flag of Greyhawk, and not some 'generic' D&D world, then that's where I think we all need to show it.
paigeoliver 02-14-07, 02:54 AM	About half the people in my play group wouldn't own a single 3.5 product if it wasn't for living greyhawk, and I honestly don't think that is all that unusual. Then you have all your older players who are convention-only type of people who wouldn't have anyone to play with otherwise. Books sold to those people are LG sales too.
LGMoses 02-14-07, 09:27 AM	Noone in my group used to even look at supplements. Since LG, several of us own Complete Warrior, Arcane, Mage, etc. I bought a bunch of the eberron books so i could run Xen'drik Expeditions but now wish i hadn't.
pedr 02-14-07, 09:37 AM	Heh... don't be too hating of the XE ... it looks like it's getting back on track, and certainly has some very keen factionmasters :D It's a completely different beast to LG. I've not played enough of it, but I remember MoH and it 'felt' very different and made for a nice change from time to time :)
solbergb 02-14-07, 02:23 PM	Well lets see, me and Gretchen. Pre RPGA: 3.0 Players Handbook, 3.0 DMG, 3.5 DMG (gift...someone wanted me to start a campaign. Little did they know I'd become addicted to LG) Post RPGA: 3.0 Players Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Manual of Plains, Sword and Fist, Tome and Blood, Song and Silence, (barbarian+druid splatbook, can't remember name), A&EG, Greyhawk Gazateer 3.5 Miniatures Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Races of Stone, Races of Destiny, Races of Wild, DMG2, PHB2, Stormwrack, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis. We've also been given the two dragon magazines with Greyhawk feats as a gift. It looks like we're forced to buy Races of Dragon because the draconic heritage feats moved there and my wife is playing a draconic sorceress. The only thing on the above list I probably would have bought on my own is the 3.5 core rules and the Gazateer Yeah, there is a reason RPGA doen't charge admission. Lets see, about 30 books, 30 dollars a pop, plus random miniatures buys encouraged by the hobby and we're at about $1000 added to WOTC's top line by my household, over about 4 years.
LGMoses 02-15-07, 02:55 AM	Heh... don't be too hating of the XE ... it looks like it's getting back on track, and certainly has some very keen factionmasters :D It wasn't bad, I was just tired of some new wierd monster I hadn't heard of every adventure. My group and I were fairly new to Dnd and I, as a Judge, hungered for the more classic adventuring feel of LG. Yeah, there is a reason RPGA doen't charge admission. Lets see, about 30 books, 30 dollars a pop, plus random miniatures buys encouraged by the hobby and we're at about $1000 added to WOTC's top line by my household, over about 4 years. Wizards is taking us all for a ride :$$: Just think of how much money they've got to be pulling in off of Dnd, Magic: Cards, and etc. It sounds like crazy money.
Paul H 02-16-07, 05:16 PM	Hi One idea would be a survey on who bought the minis - I reckon most people who buy minis are roleplayers who need to represent creatures on their battlemats etc. Wouldn't be an exact science, though. Cheers Paul H
Gallaway 03-01-07, 12:45 AM	It wasn't bad, I was just tired of some new wierd monster I hadn't heard of every adventure. My group and I were fairly new to Dnd and I, as a Judge, hungered for the more classic adventuring feel of LG. Wizards is taking us all for a ride :$$: Just think of how much money they've got to be pulling in off of Dnd, Magic: Cards, and etc. It sounds like crazy money. ah .. you should try playing games workshop games in that case old chap
LGMoses 03-01-07, 08:46 AM	ah .. you should try playing games workshop games in that case old chap A buddy of mine is actually getting me into Warhammer 40k at the moment. I'm just finishing up painting my first tactical squad of space marines.
Gallaway 03-01-07, 06:00 PM	A buddy of mine is actually getting me into Warhammer 40k at the moment. I'm just finishing up painting my first tactical squad of space marines. The whole gaming system is designed around spoilt rich kids with doting parents handing over their Amex card :) Say goodbye to any spare money for a while !! Luckily a lot of the aforementioned spoilt rich kids get bored quite quickly and 40k miniatures and codexes turn up on ebay and so forth quite regularly at bargain prices.
Zanzibax 03-02-07, 09:48 AM	Ya' know...from the title of the thread, I thought you were going to look for GWB or his Yochol Handmaiden - N. Pelosi to be talking about hobgoblins, orcs, and ogres in their political speeches. As in...what is a measure of LG's impact on the world around us.
Gallaway 03-04-07, 06:51 PM	Ya' know...from the title of the thread, I thought you were going to look for GWB or his Yochol Handmaiden - N. Pelosi to be talking about hobgoblins, orcs, and ogres in their political speeches. As in...what is a measure of LG's impact on the world around us. You never new George W was an old school D&D player of the charge them with a greatsword variety ?
Herrbard 03-04-07, 11:23 PM	You never new George W was an old school D&D player of the charge them with a greatsword variety ? But of course his armor isn't up to spec... :rolleyes:
Rerednaw 03-05-07, 10:30 AM	Noone in my group used to even look at supplements. Since LG, several of us own Complete Warrior, Arcane, Mage, etc. I bought a bunch of the eberron books so i could run Xen'drik Expeditions but now wish i hadn't. Before LG: I was always the DM in our group so I had bought Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Divine and Warrior. This plus the Trinity were my 3.5 books After LG: The race books, Draconomicon, Complete Mage, PHBII, Sandstorm, Spell Compendium, Frostburn and waaay too many minis. Most of the time those books were bought for the 2 or 3 pages of rules referenced in a specific mod. So yeah, LG has had a significant impact on my wallet. :) P.S. Oh yeah, forgot I picked up the Xen'drik/Eberron stuff too. I never would have if not for RPGA.
clannagh 03-05-07, 05:04 PM	[/SIZE] Before LG: I was always the DM in our group so I had bought Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Divine and Warrior. This plus the Trinity were my 3.5 books After LG: The race books, Draconomicon, Complete Mage, PHBII, Sandstorm, Spell Compendium, Frostburn and waaay too many minis. Most of the time those books were bought for the 2 or 3 pages of rules referenced in a specific mod. So yeah, LG has had a significant impact on my wallet. :) P.S. Oh yeah, forgot I picked up the Xen'drik/Eberron stuff too. I never would have if not for RPGA. Well when you think about you really only need one copy of the other books per group for a home game .. sometimes not even that flipping through a copy may give the GM enough ideas without anyone ever buying it. In LG however you need copies.