Acceptable in a Living Greyhawk module? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Acceptable in a Living Greyhawk module? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Puggle Halfwine
12-11-06, 02:50 PM Hey guys,

Now I'm on holiday, my mind has been wandering about various places... one of those places is further writing for the newly relaunched region of Ratik. I was hoping to do a module based on the halfling criminal underground, the so-called "shadow clans" that the Triad have established exist, but have not had anything muchwritten about them yet (I belive my *short* piece on their formation is the only 'cannon' material). I'm not thinking of writing a module (yet), but simply expanding on our current 'cannon' material.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if some elements of the story are suitable for Living Greyhawk. Without going into too many spoilers, some examples of the stuff I wanted to ask about are below:

#1: Drug use. Drugs (in the form of alcohol, amongst other things) appear in many Living Greyhawk modules. However, stereotypically halflings are fond of their more "recreational" drugs. All drugs would be fictional, but it would not be too hard to find a real-world drug with similar effects. Giving that, how appropriate are smoked/swallowed hallucinogens, assuming such things are NOT the focal point of a story, but are simply referenced as a not-insignificant part of their dealings? How appropriate are AR consequences for things like drug addiction, withdrawl?

#2: Prostitution. The world's oldest profession, and something crime gangs have always found as a stable money earner. How should this best be dealt with? Personally, in a region such as Ratik and in the case of the halfling shadowclans, I'd imagine that it would depend on which particular shadowclan we were looking at. For some of the more Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral clans they'd probably be well looked after, well paid, treated respectfully and protected. For some of the Chaotic Evil ones, I'd imagine they'd be little more than slaves- this, of course, would make for interesting module-fodder, but are stories about (or involving) prostitution in good taste?

#3: The Paladin Problem. Modules involving gang wars, criminal elements and all that come with it can raise problems with Paladins. Is it considered bad form to clarify elements of a module with GM's regarding the code of conduct? For example,

"Paladins who agree to work for the Gnomefather are not violating their code of conduct as the Gnomefather is neutrally aligned and, although his shadowclan does engage in criminal activity, they are also a force of good in the city of Marner who bring a great deal of benefit to its poor and oppressed (those in need of the most help). However, the 'lesser of two evils' aspect may be an interesting roleplaying point for your paladins to muse over."

Or would it simply be easier to state in the module blurb, "Paladins are advised to find adventure elsewhere."?
Britt
12-11-06, 02:56 PM 1) I'm 95% sure you can't give characters drugs, give them access to drugs, or have them use them in any voluntary way. Saying that a crime syndicate is involved in drug trading is probably ok, but I'm not 100% sure.

2) No. Don't mention it. Sometimes an author is allowed to get away with skirting the issue by using certain words and situations that adults would understand but not be offended by, but it's a taboo subject, so don't expect to be allowed anything of the sort.

3) Many adventures clarify the consequenses of certain actions for the GM. That is acceptable, but your editors may not agree with your assessment of the consequences, so expect some tweaking.
Japangirl
12-11-06, 05:00 PM I'm pretty sure mentioning drug use by NPCs or having the crime syndicate involved in the drug trade is acceptable. In one module that I can think of offhand, you go pick up some nobleman's son from what is basically an opium den, so there is precedent for illegal drugs and drug addiction for NPCs. I'm also pretty sure Britt is right and PCs can't get addicted/use the drugs though.
clannagh
12-11-06, 05:04 PM one of my PC's is a pole dancer and independant business elf, she uses her tumble checks for the pole dancing and is always annoyed she cant make overcap gold from her "activities" .... but she is very discreet about it all
zigspatty
12-11-06, 10:13 PM Keep in mind that there are are quite a few minors that play LG. I have played at tables with players that are as young as 8 years old, and some of the "regulars" at local gamedays are in their very early teens. Their parents place a degree of trust in us to keep games to a "PG" standard. While it is part or the GM's job to tailor the adventure to his players, as an author, you don't want to place the GM in the uncormfortable position of being the one who has to explain some aspect of "the birds & the bees" to a youngster. Parents understand that that a certain level of imagined violence is inherent in playing D&D, but that doesn't necessarily give us leave to to go overboard in other areas.

Patty
Britt
12-11-06, 10:34 PM Exactly what Patty said.
Madfox11
12-12-06, 05:59 AM In short, there is a difference between what players can do and what authors can do. Adventures that do involve these kind of subjects should give the DM a lot of freedom in adjusting the texts to their audience, although any DM should be alert enough that it is not just the young that feel uncomfortable with graphic details about such subjects. I know I had to talk with a couple of players about how they depicted their PCs' and their chosen profession. It is your best bet to actually read the RPGA guidelines since it does touch this subject and is much less a LG issue.
kjenks
12-12-06, 08:07 AM Drug use and addiction were part of the story line in COR2-05 Beneath the Veil by Ed Greeley (part 2 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle). The drug, tanbrosh, first appeared in the adventure Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil by Monte Cook.

In COR2-05, Jarrad Thelema is the uncle of Issran Thelema, the Starchild foretold by Loremaster Durgu. Jarrad used to be a second-rate actor performing in the theaters of Niole Dra, but his addiction to tanbrosh put him in the debt of many petty drug lords and pushers and he fled home to his native Istivin to mooch off his brother. After his brother died, Jarrad sold his own nephew -- the son of his dead brother -- for drugs.

The plot of COR2-05 revolved around retrieving the Starchild, Issran Thelema, from the drow who had established a cult in the caves beneath the Veil tavern in Istivin.

(I happen to know all this because I'm finishing up the writing on COR7-11 Bridge Over Svartjet, part 4 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle.)
Puggle Halfwine
12-12-06, 08:37 AM Ok, well taking all the feedback on board I've rewritten parts of the hodgepodge "document" I've been working on. The prostitute is now a barmaid, the drugs element has been significantly toned down (and, by and large, employed only by the 'evil' shadowclans) the Paladin issue has been clarified and as a whole I think it's a better document.

However, Ken; could you send me any information you have about tanbrosh (assuming it's not TOO much)? The modules you refer to were before my time. My e-mail address is u 255 2331 at anu dot edu dot au. All one word, with the rest being reasonably self-evident. ;)
gomeztoo
12-12-06, 08:38 AM The return of the revenge of the son of my neighbour's cousin's roommate of the bridge over Svartjet!

As to drugs/prostitution etc: There is a difference between what you can make work at a atble, and what you can realistically put in mods.
We had a few ad-lib encounters in Dullstrand dealing with the "Welcome Inn', which is an in where the girls make you feel very welcome indeed. Those were (background/roleplay) encounters that were a lot of fun (as was the wild party that ended up with elf and half-orc waking up next to each other), but you can't really put those in a module.
Same with drugs, and too vivid descriptions. I have had to tone down a description of a (female) victim of a raid, because it implied a bit too much.
Otoh, sometimes the eagerness to censor can be too great. I.e. I left information on the nature of the relationship between two female NPCs in, even though some people expressed condern over it.
TWG_Prometheus
12-12-06, 09:51 AM As for the Paladin and/or good character issue, I'd make it clear that association with said crime guy is OK because he's not evil (And maybe he'll submit to Detect Evil willingly?) however, they must still watch their actions while in his employ. Nothing should protect a Paladin against doing evil, no matter who he's working for or what the box text says. Additionally, if the crime boss's actions consistently offend the Paladin's moral code, they're out of luck again. (This one may be hard)

On the same subject, however, most players and Judges of Paladins should take a moment to review the ex-Paladin rules text. I constantly hear things people think that Paladins can't do that they can, (not that they should, but that their class restrictions aren't so tight as some make them out to be) especially in regard to the Law-Chaos axis.

From the SRD Ex-Paladin text: "A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate."

In particular, many people fail to notice the 'grossly' violate their code of conduct section. It's not hard to violate their code of conduct, but doing so shouldn't always make them an Ex-Paladin.

From the SRD Paladin's Code of Conduct text: "A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents."

And for completeness, about their associates: "While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."

If a Paladin's conduct does not somehow directly violate those guidelines, they're not in danger of losing their class abilities. (Being in danger of a very stiff lecture is another matter.) That said, even the most minor of infringements should be rare and for very good reasons.
Lupo
12-12-06, 10:23 AM <snip>And for completeness, about their associates: "While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."
<snip>

yea, one of the reasons for one of my characters to accept a mission to the ruined capital of tenh was the rumor that in front of the ruins of the temple of iuz a heap of paladin's leftovers should be lying around :P

ciao

martin m.

ps: as usual, module authors shouldn't do an evil trick like this, or at least give some hints to the dm how to deal with the problem.
Some_call_me_Tim
12-12-06, 01:03 PM This is what I have from the standards of content from the old LG Writers Guide:
#1: Drug use.Nothing specfically prohibiting drug use, although
Addictions of any kind should not appear as glamorous or entertaining pastimes. Addiction, or the encouragement of addiction, should be shown as a dangerous habit with harmful effects.

#2: Prostitution.Again nothing outright prohibiting mention of it.
Sexual situations-including abuse and pornography-will not appear graphically in art or text for salacious purposes.

While human sensuality and sexuality may appear in WotC product, it should not be the focus-nor should it create disrespect for the human form. In short, WotC will not use sex to sell; WotC prefers to focus on marketing characters, moods and stories.

If I was doing it I wouldn't include anything that isn't seen in a PG-13 rated movie in the US.

Or would it simply be easier to state in the module blurb, "Paladins are advised to find adventure elsewhere."?
You should hint that it involves the underworld and less than upstanding citizens but I would avoid specific class pronouncements. If a player wants the challenge of role-playing Dudley Do-Right as the Godfather's henchman so be it.
Simpi
12-12-06, 01:14 PM Addictions of any kind should not appear as glamorous or entertaining pastimes. Addiction, or the encouragement of addiction, should be shown as a dangerous habit with harmful effects.

Well, I had a house of ill-repute in my module where I put prices for drugs (poisons) because I know some PCs would ask about the prices. They were not portrayed in positive light, granted lots ability damage and had hideous prices but still they ended up being cut.

Then again, most of my modules have something that ends up on the editing room floor such as circumstance bonuses to some rolls using Profession (torturer) skill roll, though some notoriously un-heroic behavior has passed through :D

Sampo Haarlaa
Naerie Triad
Some_call_me_Tim
12-12-06, 01:37 PM Well, I had a house of ill-repute in my module where I put prices for drugs (poisons) because I know some PCs would ask about the prices. They were not portrayed in positive light, granted lots ability damage and had hideous prices but still they ended up being cut.Well, that would probably fall under the PG-13 rule, which I understand is tough to deal with as it is so subjective and the United States has some pretty strange ideas when it comes to what is too much.

For example, if you use the F-word as an expletive you're okay, you use it in a sexual context, nope not allowed. I think it was Jack Nicholson who said about the ratings: "if you suck a ***, you're an X, but if you cut it off with a sword, you're a PG."
kenobi65
12-12-06, 02:16 PM Well, that would probably fall under the PG-13 rule, which I understand is tough to deal with as it is so subjective and the United States has some pretty strange ideas when it comes to what is too much.

For example, if you use the F-word as an expletive you're okay, you use it in a sexual context, nope not allowed. I think it was Jack Nicholson who said about the ratings: "if you suck a ***, you're an X, but if you cut it off with a sword, you're a PG."

Movie ratings in the U.S. also tend to vary based on quantity. A single F-bomb or brief nudity* may only get a PG-13, while more of either gets you an R.

* - When "Airplane" first came out, it had a PG rating (this was before they came up with PG-13), and my parents took me to see it. I think we were all a bit suprised at the brief gratuitous shot of naked breasts. :)
Reylance
12-12-06, 02:40 PM (I happen to know all this because I'm finishing up the writing on COR7-11 Bridge Over Svartjet, part 4 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle.)

And O.J. is finishing finding the real killer.

Seriously, I'll be happy to finally see this module.
LGMoses
12-12-06, 08:38 PM You should hint that it involves the underworld and less than upstanding citizens but I would avoid specific class pronouncements. If a player wants the challenge of role-playing Dudley Do-Right as the Godfather's henchman so be it.

Luca Brasi was a paladin. Not too many people know that.
Puggle Halfwine
12-12-06, 10:53 PM the Godfather's henchman

Gnomefather. ;)
The_Jester
12-13-06, 11:09 PM One interesting thing I saw in a recent mod was alternate text dependant on the age of the players.
In a mature (read grown-up ;)) table a character formerly worked in a brothel while for younger tables she simply worked as a dancer in a theatre.

1) Drugs should not likely have any consequences and should likely appear only in the background. Or be portrayed entirely negatively (think after-school special bad).
If there could be a situation where a character might be exposed it should be through their own actions and the penalty should just be a loss of TUs ("the PC must spend some time recovering from their exposure to X and immediately loses Y TUs�).

2) Euphemisms only. Or, as mentioned above, provide alternate boxed text for minors.
��the shadowclan deals in all manner of illegal activities. A number of them offer� companionship, for a price.� *wink*

3) You might want to work that into a Q-n-A section, a response to a stated player query.
If the characters ask �Hey mista Gnomefather. Ya evil?� He will reply �No, of course not. I do lots of good things for the community. I built an orphanage and regularly hug nuns.�
And instead of singling out paladins it is a mite more tasteful to slip in a general alignment note, other classes have to be good or lawful as well.
Or offer suggestions for how the Gnomefather and the like might convince paladins and good characters to work for them. What arguments they, as characters, would use. It�s more immersive.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi
12-14-06, 04:17 PM #2: Prostitution. The world's oldest profession, and something crime gangs have always found as a stable money earner.

In a regional module my PC got to turn down an offer for a "special" room at an inn. Not for alignment reasons mind you - he just knows that he didn't need to pay for tail.

So, I guess its allowed as long as its presented in a PG / or PG-13 way (as others have mentioned.) So I wouldn't try to get any of the rather strange third party printer books listed as a resource for the module (my group gave one of them as a gag gift to our DM last year.)
Maesto
12-16-06, 01:40 AM Brothels have featured in a number of modules, from memory. The one that comes to mind at the moment is the "Upstanding Gentleman" in a perrenland module, although there is certainly no emphasis on the business in the place.

I remember that PCs could actually get addicted to tanbrosh in that module; my PC did (although we were forced to get the addiction removed magically).

Jolyon

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 12-11-06, 02:50 PM	Hey guys, Now I'm on holiday, my mind has been wandering about various places... one of those places is further writing for the newly relaunched region of Ratik. I was hoping to do a module based on the halfling criminal underground, the so-called "shadow clans" that the Triad have established exist, but have not had anything muchwritten about them yet (I belive my short piece on their formation is the only 'cannon' material). I'm not thinking of writing a module (yet), but simply expanding on our current 'cannon' material. However, I'm beginning to wonder if some elements of the story are suitable for Living Greyhawk. Without going into too many spoilers, some examples of the stuff I wanted to ask about are below: #1: Drug use. Drugs (in the form of alcohol, amongst other things) appear in many Living Greyhawk modules. However, stereotypically halflings are fond of their more "recreational" drugs. All drugs would be fictional, but it would not be too hard to find a real-world drug with similar effects. Giving that, how appropriate are smoked/swallowed hallucinogens, assuming such things are NOT the focal point of a story, but are simply referenced as a not-insignificant part of their dealings? How appropriate are AR consequences for things like drug addiction, withdrawl? #2: Prostitution. The world's oldest profession, and something crime gangs have always found as a stable money earner. How should this best be dealt with? Personally, in a region such as Ratik and in the case of the halfling shadowclans, I'd imagine that it would depend on which particular shadowclan we were looking at. For some of the more Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral clans they'd probably be well looked after, well paid, treated respectfully and protected. For some of the Chaotic Evil ones, I'd imagine they'd be little more than slaves- this, of course, would make for interesting module-fodder, but are stories about (or involving) prostitution in good taste? #3: The Paladin Problem. Modules involving gang wars, criminal elements and all that come with it can raise problems with Paladins. Is it considered bad form to clarify elements of a module with GM's regarding the code of conduct? For example, "Paladins who agree to work for the Gnomefather are not violating their code of conduct as the Gnomefather is neutrally aligned and, although his shadowclan does engage in criminal activity, they are also a force of good in the city of Marner who bring a great deal of benefit to its poor and oppressed (those in need of the most help). However, the 'lesser of two evils' aspect may be an interesting roleplaying point for your paladins to muse over." Or would it simply be easier to state in the module blurb, "Paladins are advised to find adventure elsewhere."?
Britt 12-11-06, 02:56 PM	1) I'm 95% sure you can't give characters drugs, give them access to drugs, or have them use them in any voluntary way. Saying that a crime syndicate is involved in drug trading is probably ok, but I'm not 100% sure. 2) No. Don't mention it. Sometimes an author is allowed to get away with skirting the issue by using certain words and situations that adults would understand but not be offended by, but it's a taboo subject, so don't expect to be allowed anything of the sort. 3) Many adventures clarify the consequenses of certain actions for the GM. That is acceptable, but your editors may not agree with your assessment of the consequences, so expect some tweaking.
Japangirl 12-11-06, 05:00 PM	I'm pretty sure mentioning drug use by NPCs or having the crime syndicate involved in the drug trade is acceptable. In one module that I can think of offhand, you go pick up some nobleman's son from what is basically an opium den, so there is precedent for illegal drugs and drug addiction for NPCs. I'm also pretty sure Britt is right and PCs can't get addicted/use the drugs though.
clannagh 12-11-06, 05:04 PM	one of my PC's is a pole dancer and independant business elf, she uses her tumble checks for the pole dancing and is always annoyed she cant make overcap gold from her "activities" .... but she is very discreet about it all
zigspatty 12-11-06, 10:13 PM	Keep in mind that there are are quite a few minors that play LG. I have played at tables with players that are as young as 8 years old, and some of the "regulars" at local gamedays are in their very early teens. Their parents place a degree of trust in us to keep games to a "PG" standard. While it is part or the GM's job to tailor the adventure to his players, as an author, you don't want to place the GM in the uncormfortable position of being the one who has to explain some aspect of "the birds & the bees" to a youngster. Parents understand that that a certain level of imagined violence is inherent in playing D&D, but that doesn't necessarily give us leave to to go overboard in other areas. Patty
Britt 12-11-06, 10:34 PM	Exactly what Patty said.
Madfox11 12-12-06, 05:59 AM	In short, there is a difference between what players can do and what authors can do. Adventures that do involve these kind of subjects should give the DM a lot of freedom in adjusting the texts to their audience, although any DM should be alert enough that it is not just the young that feel uncomfortable with graphic details about such subjects. I know I had to talk with a couple of players about how they depicted their PCs' and their chosen profession. It is your best bet to actually read the RPGA guidelines since it does touch this subject and is much less a LG issue.
kjenks 12-12-06, 08:07 AM	Drug use and addiction were part of the story line in COR2-05 Beneath the Veil by Ed Greeley (part 2 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle). The drug, tanbrosh, first appeared in the adventure Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil by Monte Cook. In COR2-05, Jarrad Thelema is the uncle of Issran Thelema, the Starchild foretold by Loremaster Durgu. Jarrad used to be a second-rate actor performing in the theaters of Niole Dra, but his addiction to tanbrosh put him in the debt of many petty drug lords and pushers and he fled home to his native Istivin to mooch off his brother. After his brother died, Jarrad sold his own nephew -- the son of his dead brother -- for drugs. The plot of COR2-05 revolved around retrieving the Starchild, Issran Thelema, from the drow who had established a cult in the caves beneath the Veil tavern in Istivin. (I happen to know all this because I'm finishing up the writing on COR7-11 Bridge Over Svartjet, part 4 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle.)
Puggle Halfwine 12-12-06, 08:37 AM	Ok, well taking all the feedback on board I've rewritten parts of the hodgepodge "document" I've been working on. The prostitute is now a barmaid, the drugs element has been significantly toned down (and, by and large, employed only by the 'evil' shadowclans) the Paladin issue has been clarified and as a whole I think it's a better document. However, Ken; could you send me any information you have about tanbrosh (assuming it's not TOO much)? The modules you refer to were before my time. My e-mail address is u 255 2331 at anu dot edu dot au. All one word, with the rest being reasonably self-evident. ;)
gomeztoo 12-12-06, 08:38 AM	The return of the revenge of the son of my neighbour's cousin's roommate of the bridge over Svartjet! As to drugs/prostitution etc: There is a difference between what you can make work at a atble, and what you can realistically put in mods. We had a few ad-lib encounters in Dullstrand dealing with the "Welcome Inn', which is an in where the girls make you feel very welcome indeed. Those were (background/roleplay) encounters that were a lot of fun (as was the wild party that ended up with elf and half-orc waking up next to each other), but you can't really put those in a module. Same with drugs, and too vivid descriptions. I have had to tone down a description of a (female) victim of a raid, because it implied a bit too much. Otoh, sometimes the eagerness to censor can be too great. I.e. I left information on the nature of the relationship between two female NPCs in, even though some people expressed condern over it.
TWG_Prometheus 12-12-06, 09:51 AM	As for the Paladin and/or good character issue, I'd make it clear that association with said crime guy is OK because he's not evil (And maybe he'll submit to Detect Evil willingly?) however, they must still watch their actions while in his employ. Nothing should protect a Paladin against doing evil, no matter who he's working for or what the box text says. Additionally, if the crime boss's actions consistently offend the Paladin's moral code, they're out of luck again. (This one may be hard) On the same subject, however, most players and Judges of Paladins should take a moment to review the ex-Paladin rules text. I constantly hear things people think that Paladins can't do that they can, (not that they should, but that their class restrictions aren't so tight as some make them out to be) especially in regard to the Law-Chaos axis. From the SRD Ex-Paladin text: "A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate." In particular, many people fail to notice the 'grossly' violate their code of conduct section. It's not hard to violate their code of conduct, but doing so shouldn't always make them an Ex-Paladin. From the SRD Paladin's Code of Conduct text: "A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents." And for completeness, about their associates: "While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good." If a Paladin's conduct does not somehow directly violate those guidelines, they're not in danger of losing their class abilities. (Being in danger of a very stiff lecture is another matter.) That said, even the most minor of infringements should be rare and for very good reasons.
Lupo 12-12-06, 10:23 AM	<snip>And for completeness, about their associates: "While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good." <snip> yea, one of the reasons for one of my characters to accept a mission to the ruined capital of tenh was the rumor that in front of the ruins of the temple of iuz a heap of paladin's leftovers should be lying around :P ciao martin m. ps: as usual, module authors shouldn't do an evil trick like this, or at least give some hints to the dm how to deal with the problem.
Some_call_me_Tim 12-12-06, 01:03 PM	This is what I have from the standards of content from the old LG Writers Guide: #1: Drug use.Nothing specfically prohibiting drug use, although Addictions of any kind should not appear as glamorous or entertaining pastimes. Addiction, or the encouragement of addiction, should be shown as a dangerous habit with harmful effects. #2: Prostitution.Again nothing outright prohibiting mention of it. Sexual situations-including abuse and pornography-will not appear graphically in art or text for salacious purposes. While human sensuality and sexuality may appear in WotC product, it should not be the focus-nor should it create disrespect for the human form. In short, WotC will not use sex to sell; WotC prefers to focus on marketing characters, moods and stories. If I was doing it I wouldn't include anything that isn't seen in a PG-13 rated movie in the US. Or would it simply be easier to state in the module blurb, "Paladins are advised to find adventure elsewhere."? You should hint that it involves the underworld and less than upstanding citizens but I would avoid specific class pronouncements. If a player wants the challenge of role-playing Dudley Do-Right as the Godfather's henchman so be it.
Simpi 12-12-06, 01:14 PM	Addictions of any kind should not appear as glamorous or entertaining pastimes. Addiction, or the encouragement of addiction, should be shown as a dangerous habit with harmful effects. Well, I had a house of ill-repute in my module where I put prices for drugs (poisons) because I know some PCs would ask about the prices. They were not portrayed in positive light, granted lots ability damage and had hideous prices but still they ended up being cut. Then again, most of my modules have something that ends up on the editing room floor such as circumstance bonuses to some rolls using Profession (torturer) skill roll, though some notoriously un-heroic behavior has passed through :D Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
Some_call_me_Tim 12-12-06, 01:37 PM	Well, I had a house of ill-repute in my module where I put prices for drugs (poisons) because I know some PCs would ask about the prices. They were not portrayed in positive light, granted lots ability damage and had hideous prices but still they ended up being cut.Well, that would probably fall under the PG-13 rule, which I understand is tough to deal with as it is so subjective and the United States has some pretty strange ideas when it comes to what is too much. For example, if you use the F-word as an expletive you're okay, you use it in a sexual context, nope not allowed. I think it was Jack Nicholson who said about the ratings: "if you suck a ***, you're an X, but if you cut it off with a sword, you're a PG."
kenobi65 12-12-06, 02:16 PM	Well, that would probably fall under the PG-13 rule, which I understand is tough to deal with as it is so subjective and the United States has some pretty strange ideas when it comes to what is too much. For example, if you use the F-word as an expletive you're okay, you use it in a sexual context, nope not allowed. I think it was Jack Nicholson who said about the ratings: "if you suck a **, you're an X, but if you cut it off with a sword, you're a PG." Movie ratings in the U.S. also tend to vary based on quantity. A single F-bomb or brief nudity may only get a PG-13, while more of either gets you an R. * - When "Airplane" first came out, it had a PG rating (this was before they came up with PG-13), and my parents took me to see it. I think we were all a bit suprised at the brief gratuitous shot of naked breasts. :)
Reylance 12-12-06, 02:40 PM	(I happen to know all this because I'm finishing up the writing on COR7-11 Bridge Over Svartjet, part 4 of the Gloom and Disunion Cycle.) And O.J. is finishing finding the real killer. Seriously, I'll be happy to finally see this module.
LGMoses 12-12-06, 08:38 PM	You should hint that it involves the underworld and less than upstanding citizens but I would avoid specific class pronouncements. If a player wants the challenge of role-playing Dudley Do-Right as the Godfather's henchman so be it. Luca Brasi was a paladin. Not too many people know that.
Puggle Halfwine 12-12-06, 10:53 PM	the Godfather's henchman Gnomefather. ;)
The_Jester 12-13-06, 11:09 PM	One interesting thing I saw in a recent mod was alternate text dependant on the age of the players. In a mature (read grown-up ;)) table a character formerly worked in a brothel while for younger tables she simply worked as a dancer in a theatre. 1) Drugs should not likely have any consequences and should likely appear only in the background. Or be portrayed entirely negatively (think after-school special bad). If there could be a situation where a character might be exposed it should be through their own actions and the penalty should just be a loss of TUs ("the PC must spend some time recovering from their exposure to X and immediately loses Y TUs�). 2) Euphemisms only. Or, as mentioned above, provide alternate boxed text for minors. ��the shadowclan deals in all manner of illegal activities. A number of them offer� companionship, for a price.� wink 3) You might want to work that into a Q-n-A section, a response to a stated player query. If the characters ask �Hey mista Gnomefather. Ya evil?� He will reply �No, of course not. I do lots of good things for the community. I built an orphanage and regularly hug nuns.� And instead of singling out paladins it is a mite more tasteful to slip in a general alignment note, other classes have to be good or lawful as well. Or offer suggestions for how the Gnomefather and the like might convince paladins and good characters to work for them. What arguments they, as characters, would use. It�s more immersive.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 12-14-06, 04:17 PM	#2: Prostitution. The world's oldest profession, and something crime gangs have always found as a stable money earner. In a regional module my PC got to turn down an offer for a "special" room at an inn. Not for alignment reasons mind you - he just knows that he didn't need to pay for tail. So, I guess its allowed as long as its presented in a PG / or PG-13 way (as others have mentioned.) So I wouldn't try to get any of the rather strange third party printer books listed as a resource for the module (my group gave one of them as a gag gift to our DM last year.)
Maesto 12-16-06, 01:40 AM	Brothels have featured in a number of modules, from memory. The one that comes to mind at the moment is the "Upstanding Gentleman" in a perrenland module, although there is certainly no emphasis on the business in the place. I remember that PCs could actually get addicted to tanbrosh in that module; my PC did (although we were forced to get the addiction removed magically). Jolyon