Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ithardin 07-06-06, 06:06 PM	This thread was inspired by: 1. An intro mod with a mephit that DR vs. magic 2. Almost all fights with outsiders I have had :) 3. A post by Samwise on a different thread So, you have just survived your first (or second) intro mod and you have 450-900 gold pieces. You start flipping through the DMG to price out the fancy gear you are going to start saving up for...WAIT! What are some things that you should buy NOW so that you can survive the curves that modules will send your way? Here are my suggestions: 1. A cold iron weapon. The first time you hit a Succubus and do full damage it is a wonderful thing, and I have seen then at APL4. 2. A silvered weapon. Yes, they do -1 damage, but that Vampire/Vampire spawn drains levels and can heal like a booger! 3. Oil of Magic Weapon. It costs 50gp, a magic weapon costs 2K. It comes in handy while you are saving up. 4. Scroll of CLW. It is half the price of potion (25gp vs. 50) and it can be given to the divine caster in the group at the start so he can adjust his spell slots accordingly. 5. Potion of CLW. You should have one, just in case. 6. Potion of Bless. A "portable priest" that helps the entire party. 7. Potion of hide from undead. This is a fun one that can help you get in position to lay the smack down...or get away :) 8. A wand of CLW. Pricey at 750gp, but if you do the math (50 charges) it is a bargain and a HUGE help for the young divine caster. I know there is more sage advice out there, let's hear it...how best to spend that first 450-900gp?
kjenks 07-06-06, 06:38 PM	This thread was inspired by: 1. An intro mod with a mephit that DR vs. magic 2. Almost all fights with outsiders I have had :) 3. A post by Samwise on a different thread So, you have just survived your first (or second) intro mod and you have 450-900 gold pieces. You start flipping through the DMG to price out the fancy gear you are going to start saving up for...WAIT! What are some things that you should buy NOW so that you can survive the curves that modules will send your way? Here are my suggestions: 1. A cold iron weapon. The first time you hit a Succubus and do full damage it is a wonderful thing, and I have seen then at APL4. 2. A silvered weapon. Yes, they do -1 damage, but that Vampire/Vampire spawn drains levels and can heal like a booger! 3. Oil of Magic Weapon. It costs 50gp, a magic weapon costs 2K. It comes in handy while you are saving up. 4. Scroll of CLW. It is half the price of potion (25gp vs. 50) and it can be given to the divine caster in the group at the start so he can adjust his spell slots accordingly. 5. Potion of CLW. You should have one, just in case. 6. Potion of Bless. A "portable priest" that helps the entire party. 7. Potion of hide from undead. This is a fun one that can help you get in position to lay the smack down...or get away :) 8. A wand of CLW. Pricey at 750gp, but if you do the math (50 charges) it is a bargain and a HUGE help for the young divine caster. I know there is more sage advice out there, let's hear it...how best to spend that first 450-900gp? After the end of their first adventure, I expect every player character to invest in some disposable items. Every single PC. There is some gear that is absolutely indispensible to survival at all APLs. Everyone should have a way of inflicting damage at a distance. This can be a ranged weapon, flasks of oil, some scrolls or a wand. Everyone should have a potion of CLW. This can be used to stabilize PCs who are at negative HP, especially for the unconcious cleric who is the only one in the party who can cast a Cure spell. Everyone should have a Potion of Invisibility. This enables sneaking away from an encounter gone bad, or sneaking past guards, if someone gets captured, or sneaking into a fortified place, as required by many plots. If there's even one PC in a party who can't go invisible, that PC can be a major impediment to party survival. If we all get in trouble and we want to bug out invisibly, we are forced into a decision about abandoning that PC or fighting an encounter beyond what we, as a party, think is reasonable. Almost everyone should have a smokestick (or some other way of generating obscurement, like a scroll of Obscuring Mist), a light source, and a way to light a fire. All spellcasters should have a back-up spell component pouch in case their primary gets stolen or destroyed. Everyone who uses weapons should have a back-up weapon in case their primary gets stolen or destroyed. As a DM (and as a player), I expect every single LG character to have that kind of gear before his second AR. If he doesn't have it, I have a helpful NPC suggest it to him during the game and I try to find a way to let them go shopping. This stuff is really vital for character survival when things go bad. And because this is, in part, a game of chance, things will go bad sometimes. Fighter types should have oil of Bless Weapon (better than oil of Magic Weapon), a silver weapon and a cold iron weapon. But I don't recommend those for everyone. A scroll of Cure Light Wounds requires the usual "Decipher the Writing" activity (Read Magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level)) before your divine buddy can activate it. If you and your buddy forget to do this ahead of time (as I often do), the scroll might not work when you need it. A potion is more reliable and can be used by anybody. Buy both, but if you can only afford one, buy the potion. A wand of CLW is great, but not everyone has access. Scrolls are almost as cheap (25 gp/use, vs. 10 gp/use for wands). Even cheaper: NPC spellcasting. It's fun to waltz into the Church of Iuz, Hat of Disguise activated, and bluff your way into buying Cure Light Wounds from the clerics there at 10 gp/use. There is no potion of Bless.
ithardin 07-06-06, 06:47 PM	"There is no potion of Bless." *laughing* I can't believe I let Neverwinter Nights (where there is a potion of bless) spill over into LG. See what posting while you are taking a study break from the bar exam does to you. Thank you for the clarification and for your input.
JamesMaissen 07-06-06, 08:20 PM	This thread was inspired by: Here are my suggestions: 6. Potion of Bless. A "portable priest" that helps the entire party. 7. Potion of hide from undead. This is a fun one that can help you get in position to lay the smack down...or get away :) 8. A wand of CLW. Pricey at 750gp, but if you do the math (50 charges) it is a bargain and a HUGE help for the young divine caster. There's not a Potion of Bless. A potion of Hide from undead is of limited use as intelligent undead will get a save (and DC 11 will isn't much plus undead favor will saves) but against mindless and large zombies/skeletons it might be worth your 50gp. The wand of CLW is a purchase you make as soon as you get access, as others might not have access. Regardless you should do your share of the healing load, and a cleric might not be at the table while a ranger, bard or paladin might. You want to take multiple weapons (with silver and cold iron materials as options), look through the alchemical items section, and then look to scrolls and potions of 1st level spells. When looking through those lists consider the following questions: 1> Should a situation come up when this was needed, would I begrudge spending this cash to have it? 2> What of the above items will I have for the long haul, and which ones do I plan on growing out of? 3> Besides what I can use, is there something there that I can't directly use that I want to make sure that the party does have? The bottom line is that the first amounts of cash that you get isn't going to make a high impact on later purchases when what you are buying costs thousands of gold. Get the little essentials now, and if you never need them it's still comforting to have them, while the converse is far more tragic. Personally I think everyone should view consumables as having 3 categories: day in day out/standard use, special occasions, and panic buttons. Don't confuse them or you will confuse the role of consumables in augmenting your options. The first category is the cheapest (based on how much gold you make and what demands your character has for items rather than a fixed cut off price). These are items you get with the intention to use in everyday fights. If my PC was a tripper or grappler I might purchase scrolls of enlarge person for the arcane to read on me should they have the time. A starting out wizard can go a long way by dropping a few hundred gold on magic missle scrolls to use until around 3rd-4th level, etc. The second category is for things that rarely come up, but will be worthwhile for you to use. An oil of magic weapon is the poster child here. You could use it at the drop of a hat for +1 to hit/dam until you get a magic weapon, but that would be excessive. Instead you wait until the situation would benefit greatly from it. Something with magic DR or an incorporeal. You think perhaps twice whether the encounter merits it and then you use it. The last category is insurance. It's something that you would decide to use only because the alternatives will cost you more. A potion of fly or waterbreath or even gaseous form finds it's way to this list. The pricing here is normally above your means. A barbarian can be well served by having increasingly higher healing potions to handle when he's left with only 'rage' hps and needs to heal before it wears off... it would suck to have your character die after defeating all the bad guys. DON'T use these last items as if they were in the other two categories until your APL makes them less of a financial burden, they are for emergencies and should be treated as such. Many players confuse these roles and get burned by treating emergency consumables as everyday use items and feel the gold hit. Don't fall for this mistake and your consumable use will make you a much stronger character and aid to the party in general. So a few direct suggestions for items: A potion as well as scrolls (arcane and divine) of Protection from Evil are *very* good purchases. Read the spell and you'll start to see the multiple uses for them, both to be quaffed yourself and to have a caster read one on an affected person. This is a case where a 1st level spell can defeat a much higher level threat. It's sad when you cannot rise to that challenge. Tanglefoot bags are wonderful.. learn how they work. At 50gp they might be a little pricy for 1st and 2nd levels, but afterwards only their wieght should prevent you from carrying a goodly number of them. Alchemist Fires and Acid Flasks are great ways of dealing nonmagical elemental damage via touch attacks. Many things you will face will either be hard to hit (high AC) or hard to damage otherwise (swarms, etc). A smokestick and/or obscuring mist scrolls are a great way to deliver concealment and start to take control of your terrain at a cheap price. Many threats in LG are based around the enemy having superior terrain advantage. Proper use of magic/items can greatly reduce threats to you and your party (just think before using). A deeper darkness spell is another way of dealing with this to some extent and makes a good 3rd level cleric spell to take on trips as it lasts for days. Personally I would have all 3 to keep all the options available to fit the situation my party finds itself in. An oil of bless weapon is a good insurance for when DR good shows up before you can afford a holy weapon. This is a decent span of time and at 100gp it quickly goes from emergency to special occasion and then to cheap use before a holy weapon is generally available to you. Armor spikes and a spiked gauntlet can be an easy way to handle different material damages, be able to fight in a grapple without having to draw a light weapon and threaten squares while having a hand free. Wieght for the armor spikes might be an issue, but it's a must for polearm users imho. Cold Iron is very cheap and silver isn't that much more. Give some thought to having both kinds, as well as a reach weapon. When you need to use one of these they are so cheap as to be criminal not to have them available. A net can be a fun thing to use or to put in the hands of a strong character. A sap is a nice thing for martial characters to have to be able to deal subdual more readily when the situation merits it. Knotted rope and grappling hook are easy things to defeat many obstacles if you can carry them. A whip is a nice way for a noncombatant to try to trip, disarm or aid others from a distance. It's my version of a 'yay team' action.. though coupled with true strike it can become a disarming threat. Something to do when grease doesn't seem likely to work but the enemy needs to have their weapon removed. There are many many others. Basically you want to go through the lists of cheap items available to you and purchase many of them as insurance for when they will come up, James
paigeoliver 07-06-06, 10:26 PM	A few more notes. Mules (or donkeys for small characters). They cost 8 gold pieces, cheaper than horses and they can carry a lot of stuff. They are also great at finding traps and tend to get in the way of charging bad guys. Plus donkeys seem to have some sort of magic donkey luck, I have sat their and watched raging orc barbarians, constructs and other baddies miss attacks against donkeys countless times. A carriage. Perfect for overland trips. All the squishy casters can ride inside and the barbarians and archers can sit in the two driver's seats in front. Also a really safe place for the sleeping characters to sleep. Whips are downright nasty in the hands of some characters. I play a whip character and he has failed VERY FEW disarm attempts. Usually I do the improved trip followed up with a disarm. These are especially handy for Marshalls since marshalls can get that nasty trip/disarm aura going on. The ever popular Bard/Marshalls really have no excuse for not having a masterwork whip. You standard Bard/Marshall two handing a masterwork whip with the disarm aura active can even disarm those evil locked gauntlet guys with ease. A small sized exotic weapon is PERFECT for dealing with pesky prisoners that you don't really want around, but you don't want to just murder. Toss them the weapon and tell them to defend themselves. They will be -8 to hit, so they won't have much of a chance, but at least you gave them a chance. Also in the area of prisoner hampering consider eventually buying a single suit of splint mail for 200 GP. If you ever capture and enemy wizard, rogue, sorceror, or Druid than put them in it right away. Huge armor check penalty, no dex to AC at all, the arcane casters will have 40 percent spell failure, and the druids can't cast in it at all.
GreatSiron 07-06-06, 11:23 PM	I can't add much to the list, except that oil can also work as alchemist fire. Just make sure you throw the alchemist fire first, then toss oils, since the fire will light them. Anyone who cant cast destructive spells (which is most characters) would benfit from having at least 2 or 3 alchemist fires on their person. The same goes for tanglefoot bags and smokesticks, if you can't duplicate the effect with a spell or scroll, get em. Smokesticks can save lives. (Saved me from a half golem). Tanglefoot bags can make life miserable for spell casters and anything else with bad reflex saves. If you can get access, flash pellets from CV are nice too, and they can nail everything in a 5 foot radius. (Not useful often, but anything that makes life harder for enemy spellcasters and rogues can only be a good thing.) Some things I don't recommended are higher lvl potions, save for ones that heal or get rid of things like neg lvls and ablility drain. The only time I ever had to run away from a fight, invisiblity would not have helped me. (I hate devils). I don't know about most regions, since I've only played in two (Yeomanry and Verbobonc), but I have never been in an encounter that was so overpowering that we had no choice but to run. (And I've been in some BAD encounters.) And I can't even think of a use for a fly potion, save that one encounter with the griffion riding. There are other ways to get across pits and climb walls that don't blow 750 gp. Now the cheaper potions and oils, like oil of magic weapon and later, bless weapon, are worth the cost. A potion or two of protection from evil doesn't hurt, because the spell works on ALL non-good summons. Cure potions are lifesavers; they can save a teammates life, or your own. A wand of CLW is nice too, especially if you can use it yourself. (A ranger lvl will accomplish this.) A rule of thumb for me is that if a consumable costs more than roughly 1/5 the gold gained for the adventure, I'm not buying it in that adventure. Most adventurers have enough they have to buy already.
Samwise 07-06-06, 11:32 PM	Rather than me too-ing all the really good ideas, I'll add: Wizards, scribe scrolls. You've got the feat. Take the XP and TU hit, and get 5 scrolls per adventure at half the normal price. Especially if you get your hands on a Right Scroll For The Job card, there is very little reason not to constantly scribe scrolls every adventure, even if you already have 50 of them. Just keep making more, sooner or later you are guaranteed to find a use for them.
clik_ml 07-07-06, 01:48 AM	A wand of CLW is great, but not everyone has access. Scrolls are almost as cheap (25 gp/use, vs. 10 gp/use for wands). Are these discount wands? At 750gp per 50 charges, a wand is exactly as cheap as an equivalent scroll. The only benefits to wands is that they are slightly easier to use by rangers, bards, and paladins, and you don't have to draw another one for every use. Post intro my bard started out with 25 scrolls of CLW and didn't care about wands for a long long time. For must-have items, I'd include a spiked gauntlet, so at least you can do a little something when in the mitts of a grapple monster and you didn't have a light weapon in hand. I generally will combine the spiked gauntlet with one of the funky metals to kill 2 birds with one stone (my TWF rogue has a silver spiked gauntlet and cold iron spiked gauntlet, just in case). For my higher APL characters (5+) I start carrying around a CSW scroll as an emergency cord for when a battle goes rotten. If I need healing and I need it in battle, I'm not gonna be able waste time with vigors or CLWs. (though that is beyond the scope of this thread I guess)
awroe 07-07-06, 04:27 AM	750gp / 50 = 15gp per charge. Scrolls cost 25gp AW.
clik_ml 07-07-06, 07:48 AM	Wow, I need sleep.
Mommy was an Orc 07-07-06, 09:16 AM	A lot of things I'd do here, but a couple more things: One of the things I generally do is break down my expected item purchases. With my 1st 4000 gold that I get to keep, I roughly expect to buy 1 2K item, 1 1K item, a 500 gold item, and then 500 gold worth of cheap consumables. The important thing I think to do with those consumables is cover for when people don't make logical purchases(about a good 50% of casters at low level) that would help you out. When my tank meets a wizard for the 1st time, she'll hand him a scroll of Enlarge Person. If he's got something better to do, I won't expect the player to make the character use it. But if the wizard starts pulling out a crossbow or if it looks like a long, tough combat, I'll remind him of the scroll. Also, Bolas can be a very effective weapon, even non-proficient. Light and you get a special attack. Sickles are similar - if you're a non-combatant in the nightmare scenario of being unable to do anything next to the enemy BDF with reach, try doing a trip attack with a Sickle - odds are you're proficient, you won't generate an AoO because you're using a weapon, and if you miraculously succeed, you'll set up your party's fighter. The odds of success aren't that horrible - my 10 Strength Bard has tripped a Vampire and a BDF before, albeit with a whip.
kegdrainer 07-07-06, 09:36 AM	If you plan on having your character run around in full plate, a horse might be a good investment. A heavy warhorse (Light if you can do it) will serve as a battle taxi rather than having to move at 20'. Always carry a backup weapon. One ranged (Piercing), one blunt and one slashing is a good mix. I got rid of a longbow I had purchased when I started. For 15 adventures I did not use it and sold it back to lighten my load. The next two adventures had bad guys sniping at me from long distance. So now I have a MW Mty bow as backup. Manacles is a good option for those adventures when you find someone that you want to bring back for justice. Toss in a few sunrods for good measure. A potion of Enlarge is great if you use reach weapons. Get a candle so you can use it to seal your ears from the bards bad singing or harpies.
thorinXXX 07-07-06, 12:41 PM	I'm surprised that no one has mentioned tanglefoot bags yet. I cannot tell you the number of encounters that I have seen broken by them. What eveyone should carry: 2 potions of CLW (these are for others to use on you when you go down) 2 tanglfoot bags 5 sunrods (these things last for hours and have a better radius than everburning torches)
JamesMaissen 07-07-06, 01:02 PM	I'm surprised that no one has mentioned tanglefoot bags yet. Two people have already mentioned tanglefoot bags.. they're lots of fun and great against flying creatures... Perhaps we should make a list of items that people find useful. That could be used as a shopping list for people. I would sort it by price or rough price, as things change from emergency use only to drop of the hat everyday use as you level. -James
JohnduBois 07-07-06, 01:35 PM	My Favored Soul is really going for the expendables right now (as there are very few good items for a summoning-focused Favored Soul to buy for permanent use). Here's his current list: 4 Potions of Cure Light Wounds, Maximized (because I lubs me some retired CORS action) 2 Potions of Invisibility, Extended (for the same reason as above) 1 Quaal's Feather Token, anchor (because my PCs tend to find themselves on boats a little too often) 2 QFT, swan boat (because my Trithereonite doesn't want to be on YOUR boat, Mr. Scarlet Brotherhood) 2 QFT, fan (so I can run far, far away from aforementioned boat owner) 2 Potions of Remove Curse, CL 5th (not precisely this, and it's AR access, but you never know when you'll need them) 1 Wand of Cure Light Wounds (because in a couple levels, I won't know that spell anymore) I plan to pick up a couple Scrolls of Obscuring Mist, as well as other things to help me run away. (Hey, I summon things to fight so that I don't have to!)
solbergb 07-07-06, 05:11 PM	My list is fairly simple and I don't vary it that much. Fighter/warrior types of any flavor: One blunt weapon (club if it isn't his thing) One nonlethal weapon (sap if it isn't a monk) One slashing weapon (most main weapons are slashing) Javelins (until a +4 strength bow for a high dex char, on many fighter types I don't get the bow until 1000gp seems cheap, and on hybrid types like my druid/barbarian I use spells for ranged combat). A javelin is way better than non-strength bow in most low level encounters if your character is strong Oil of bless weapon Oil of magic weapon (or shillelagh if primary weapon is club or staff) Potion of protection from evil Sunrod(s) if they can't see in the dark somehow about 6 flasks of oil and an alch fire to ignite them, for swarms or perhaps a troll BBQ after you'e knocked it down with your main weapon. A cold iron reach weapon A silver light weapon (often armor spikes) The next early purchases are either mw fullplate with mw spikes+mount or a +1 weapon. And that's it until potion of enlarge seems cheap, and much, much later potion of fly. If I have access to weapon capsule retainers, the cold iron weapon gets quicksilver, the magic weapon gets ghostblight. Get an adamantine weapon as soon as you possibly can after you get access. If you are an archer, get adamantine arrows and don't sweat the cost. If you are an archer, Holy or Sacred should be one of your most important +d6 enhancements, although if you don't get Sacred, the expense of Holy may mean your first +d6 bow is an elemental or merciful weapon. ======================================== =========== For spellcasters, it is like this: The first 1000gp or so are spent primarily on mundane and magical consumables, 25-50gp potions, scrolls, alchemicals that will let me BE a caster for 3 hard fights every single action. In that mess is usually a fair amount of utility spells too, although a divine, prepared caster will get a smaller utility spell mix due to the fact that I do have right scroll for the job. Universal in all of them: Magic weapon or magic stone (or both) for use on other party members, obscuring mist and, if on the spell list, prot evil and enlarge person. Divine casters with clw get at least four clw scrolls until they find wand acess. Arcane casters with the sor/wiz spell list will get 4 scrolls of magic missile until they can reliably finish off a badly wounded enemy from their head without crippling other things they can do. At level 3, they get a handful of L2 scrolls, usually stuff that will significantly swing a combat if it is needed and absent. Examples are glitterdust, silence, web, command undead, remove paralysis. Usually 4-6 scrolls, no more. At level 5, they get 1-2 L3 scrolls, again big guns like circle of prot evil, fly or circle of invisibility that are the kind of spells where you KNOW you REALLY need to use it, and won't begrudge the cost. At level 7, those with freedom of movement and/or dimension door on their spell list get one and only one scroll of these. They're just too important to not have, and again right scroll for the job is better if you cover all spell tiers. Unlike Ken, I don't bother with invisibilty consumables unless they can be done for the whole party. I do agree that mobility-challenged fighter types probably need a potion of fly, probably about the time the spellcasters are getting their scrolls of dim door. In all cases, consumables past level 3 or so represent a small fraction of total wealth, and are heavily oriented to the very cheap ones. The need for a decent scroll library means my casters tend to not buy many permanent items till level 4ish, but aside from a cloak+1 they don't really need much (I don't tend to do fullplate primary casters - if I had one he'd have maybe only 1-2 L2 scrolls until into level 4ish)
Swiftbrook 07-07-06, 05:32 PM	Overview One of the things I generally do is break down my expected item purchases. With my 1st 4000 gold that I get to keep, I roughly expect to buy 1 2K item, 1 1K item, a 500 gold item, and then 500 gold worth of cheap consumables. Weapons A cold iron weapon A silvered weapon. (they do -1 damage) Inflicting damage at a distance. This can be a ranged weapon, flasks of oil, some scrolls or a wand. Always carry a backup weapon. One ranged (Piercing), one blunt and one slashing is a good mix. Armor spikes Spiked gauntlet A net can be a fun thing to use A sap is a nice thing for martial characters to have to be able to deal subdual A whip is a nice way for a noncombatant to try to trip, disarm or aid others from a distance Bolas can be a very effective weapon, even non-proficient Sickles are similar - if you're a non-combatant in the nightmare scenario of being unable to do anything next to the enemy BDF with reach, try doing a trip attack with a Sickle Oils Magic Weapon. It costs 50gp Bless Weapon Potions Cure Light Wounds Bless Hide from undead Invisibility Protection from Evil Enlarge Person Remove Curse Scrolls Cure Light Wounds It is half the price of potion (25gp vs. 50) Obscuring Mist For my higher APL characters (5+) Cure Serious Wounds Enlarge Person Protection from Evil Other Magic A wand of Cure Light Wounds. Pricey at 750gp, but 15 gp/charge Equipment smokestick (or some other way of generating obscurement) light source a way to light a fire back-up spell component pouch Tanglefoot bags 50gp Alchemist Fires Acid Flasks Knotted rope and grappling hook sunrods Get a candle so you can use it to seal your ears from the bards bad singing or harpies. flash pellets from CV are nice too Prisoners A small sized exotic weapon is PERFECT for dealing with pesky single suit of splint mail for 200 GP. Manacles Transportation If you plan on having your character run around in full plate, a horse Mules (or donkeys for small characters). To Do: Wizards, scribe scrolls. Note: I have not double checked the list for validity. -Swiftbrook
ithardin 07-07-06, 07:54 PM	I forgot to mention. Since my PCs live in Verbobonc and frequently go to Dyvers, a sap is essential. Nothing says "ruined con" like having your PC arrested for lethal damage and doing a 52 time unit stretch in the joint.
JohnduBois 07-07-06, 08:44 PM	I forgot to mention. Since my PCs live in Verbobonc and frequently go to Dyvers, a sap is essential. Nothing says "ruined con" like having your PC arrested for lethal damage and doing a 52 time unit stretch in the joint. I would like to echo this sentiment for those travelling to Ket. However, having never been there, I don't know what the penalties are, exactly.
Iswald 07-08-06, 04:08 AM	I've got to wonder how you're expecting low level character to carry all this stuff. It's not like they've got magical assistance (especially since they've spent so much on consumables). Often, I see mages told to carry a number of these items and strength is a dump stat. Tanglefoot bags weigh 4 lbs, each! Even if your character has 12 or 14 strength, with weapons and armor, adding all these items can easily push them into medium encumbrance.
Samwise 07-08-06, 11:05 AM	A lot of these items can be combined. A pair of daggers can cover silver, cold iron, piercing, and thrown weapon. Or a sickle for tripping can be silver, since the reduced damage won't matter. If it is still too much, dump a bunch of the non-combat items in bags on the mule.
clik_ml 07-08-06, 12:09 PM	I've got to wonder how you're expecting low level character to carry all this stuff. It's not like they've got magical assistance (especially since they've spent so much on consumables). Often, I see mages told to carry a number of these items and strength is a dump stat. Tanglefoot bags weigh 4 lbs, each! Even if your character has 12 or 14 strength, with weapons and armor, adding all these items can easily push them into medium encumbrance. Wiz/Sorcs won't need to carry a lot of this stuff. Silver and cold iron weapons can be ignored. Likewise for all the backup weapons (saps, nets, etc.), and armor spikes especially. For utility, the low strength casters can generally stick to scrolls. And there is still the mule on that list for if you want the mage to carry other stuff (like rope and grappling hook, or other mundane helpful items).
Iswald 07-08-06, 12:29 PM	Pulling something from your backpack is a move action. How many actions are need to retrieve something from a pack on a mule? When your mule dies, do you roll to see which way it falls and what items you can pull out in melee? I always overlook the possibility of using mules to carry gear, but there may be reasons for that.
thorinXXX 07-08-06, 12:40 PM	Don't forget the potion of Lesser Restoration. This can be delayed a little due to the expense. The potion takes effect in 1 round as opposed to the 3 it takes for casting the spell, so it is a viable action in combat.
Samo 07-08-06, 05:07 PM	When I finally got enough gold to buy a +1 magic weapon I jumped all over the opportunity, but from reading the boards I'm starting to get the impression that was a bad idea. So do you guys think I should sell it back and wait for better weapons, or just keep it and bite the bullet??
Lupo 07-08-06, 05:19 PM	When I finally got enough gold to buy a +1 magic weapon I jumped all over the opportunity, but from reading the boards I'm starting to get the impression that was a bad idea. So do you guys think I should sell it back and wait for better weapons, or just keep it and bite the bullet?? depending of your character. any frontliner or archer should buy a magic weapon as early as possible. trading in one point of damage for silvered is a a matter of taste and regional monster population. buying a cold iron magic weapon is better postponed till you can get a nice additional enchantment on it [sacred and bane, evil outsiders are favourites]. archers are better of, they just buy a quiver with silvered and use cold iron arrows for everything else anyway. ciao martin m.
Mommy was an Orc 07-09-06, 01:31 PM	When I finally got enough gold to buy a +1 magic weapon I jumped all over the opportunity, but from reading the boards I'm starting to get the impression that was a bad idea. So do you guys think I should sell it back and wait for better weapons, or just keep it and bite the bullet?? Well, as long as you've bought it, keeping it is the best thing. I'd put it this way: As soon as you can cover your obligations with consumables, buying a +1 magic weapon that can also pierce some sort of material DR is a good idea. You'll save both money and actions. It isn't mandatory, though. It also depends on who exactly you're playing with - a group where everyone contributes to consumable cost is a lot easier to make some of those choices faster.
ithardin 07-09-06, 02:01 PM	I agree with the previous posts Samo, keep the weapon, it is not worth the 50% hit on selling it back. I would never say buying what you want is a "bad idea" in a game, so don't second-guess yourself :) Archers, etc who need to be hitting on a consistent basis need to take that into effect. It is perhaps most plausible for them to have different ammo for different situations (cold iron, silver, etc) without looking like a walking weapons merchant :)
Samo 07-09-06, 05:02 PM	Cool....thanks for the replies guys :cool:
clannagh 07-09-06, 07:34 PM	remember the wands of CLW can even be used by a character who cannot cast the spell as long as its on their class list (a wisdom 8 level 1 ranger can use a CLW wand for example) A must early on for mage types if you have AR access is a mithral buckler ... doesnt interfere with casting or shooting, no spell failure and also no check penalty so being non-proficient with shields isnt a problem
clannagh 07-09-06, 07:42 PM	Well, as long as you've bought it, keeping it is the best thing. I'd put it this way: As soon as you can cover your obligations with consumables, buying a +1 magic weapon that can also pierce some sort of material DR is a good idea. You'll save both money and actions. It isn't mandatory, though. It also depends on who exactly you're playing with - a group where everyone contributes to consumable cost is a lot easier to make some of those choices faster. it is more economical and sensible once you get to the stage of wanting weapons with features like holy to have several +1 weapons with a special enhancement rather than one weapon that is the equivalent of plus 5 but in normal combat behaves like +1 so keep it and enhance it up later as a backup weapon
ornsjach 07-14-06, 02:26 PM	wand of Magic missile for mages
ornsjach 07-14-06, 02:26 PM	Potion of invisibility for rouges
solbergb 07-16-06, 01:19 PM	wand of Magic missile for mages If you are talking about the L1 version, scrolls are just better. You'll "grow out" of the need to cast L1 magic missile long before you use up 50 charges. I find that keeping about 4 scrolls of MM in the level 1-2 range covers all the need to cast that spell in a normal adventure while still being very superior to a crossbow shot (you will miss most of the time with your crossbow). Higher level wands can be nice, if they're both affordable and useful to you. But you will grow out of them before you run them out of charges, most of the time.
Galvin 07-16-06, 03:13 PM	1. an easy button 2. A pimp cain 3. 24kG grill yo~
Paul H 07-18-06, 07:40 AM	Hi Speaking of heavy loads - don't forget Tenser's Floating Disk. I know I wouldn't normally 'waste' a spell for mundane stuff, but when you're high enough level for it to last a while, you've also got enough spell slots to cover it. Note: Warmages can take it as Advanced Learning at 3rd lvl. As for spell casters - I would increase your armour class ASAP (if you can). Also Pearls of Power increase your spell arsenal (if you prepare spells). Couple scrolls of what you need, plus wand CLW as soon as you can. SOMEONE in your party should be able to use it! My main doesn't need Sunrods since Dwarves have Darkvision. (Dwarf Clr 3 [Magic & Trickery] Warmage 4 - going Mystic Theurge) Lastly - Alchemist's fire etc for those nasty swarms. (I died, once, against a swarm with SR)! Cheers Paul H
jstorrie 01-16-07, 05:32 PM	Let us talk about starmetal. Am I wrong to see starmetal as sort of cold-iron-adamantine? Most foes that'd have DR cold iron are outsiders, and +d6 eats up most of dr/5. How common is dr/cold iron higher than five? I have starmetal and adamantine access on one young PC, and am definitely considering saving the extra 2k to get his main weapon starmetal rather than adamantine.
kenobi65 01-16-07, 05:59 PM	Most foes that'd have DR cold iron are outsiders, and +d6 eats up most of dr/5. How common is dr/cold iron higher than five? Read the Demon section of your Monster Manual; it's demons who have the cold iron susceptibility*. Some have DR5, some 10, the toughest ones 15 (and there's sometimes "or good", and sometimes "and good" for the toughest ones). And, one or two don't have a vulnerability to cold iron at all. :P * Fey are the others big group with cold iron susceptibility, but they may not occur as foes as often.
Mommy was an Orc 01-16-07, 06:04 PM	Let us talk about starmetal. Am I wrong to see starmetal as sort of cold-iron-adamantine? Most foes that'd have DR cold iron are outsiders, and +d6 eats up most of dr/5. How common is dr/cold iron higher than five? I have starmetal and adamantine access on one young PC, and am definitely considering saving the extra 2k to get his main weapon starmetal rather than adamantine. It seems nice. I'd more look at it as a way of doing a little extra damage against outsiders that also happens to pierce DR/Adamantine.
jstorrie 01-16-07, 06:50 PM	I would be slapping sacred or holy on it, so demon/devil DR shouldn't hit it too hard... and this is on a Shock charger. It's not that starmetal isn't great, it's that 6000 is pretty expensive for a PC's first magical weapon. Speaking of which, I have an interesting favour that allows me to trade a weapon, shield or piece of armor in for a weapon, shield or piece of armor with the same value but different enhancements on it. Aside from the basic idea of stacking up a bunch of +1-value modifiers so I take no opportunity by saving up for a +2-+4 modifier, how should I best make use of this? I have another favour which gives access to any DMG weapon/armor modification, too...
Bogjob 01-17-07, 09:58 AM	Cold iron morningstar here, cold iron, bludgeoning and piercing for not a lot of cash. Use it a lot against Babau demons (which seem to be appearing a hell of a lot) and their pesky slime so's my nice waraxe doesn't go fizzt resulting in me crying a lot.
Randall Montgomery 01-17-07, 01:30 PM	If you are talking about the L1 version, scrolls are just better. You'll "grow out" of the need to cast L1 magic missile long before you use up 50 charges. I could not disagree more. In one round, you could either pull a scroll out of your pack and cast it, or you could move, draw your wand at the same time, and cast it. I've found that extra movement to be a lifesaver in those critical situations. Not to mention that it frees up some level 1 spell slots that would otherwise be spent on MM for other useful spells, such as Grease, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement, ect. My own wizard used up nearly his entire wand by the time he hit 5th level, at which time he sold what was left and crafted a CL5 wand. He's got 60 ARs under his belt, and I don't think he's used an actual weapon in the last 55 or so.... One thing I'd add for mages is a wand of grease. It's suprising how useful this can be, even later on in your career. Someone in the party is grappled? Grease 'em and give them an extra 10 to the escape check. Need an enemy flat footed. Stick a grease spot under them and let the rogue do the rest. If you're really lucky, they might even fail the save and fall. AoO for everyone! The wand is really cheap for what you can do with it.
Mommy was an Orc 01-17-07, 02:27 PM	I could not disagree more. In one round, you could either pull a scroll out of your pack and cast it, or you could move, draw your wand at the same time, and cast it. I've found that extra movement to be a lifesaver in those critical situations. Not to mention that it frees up some level 1 spell slots that would otherwise be spent on MM for other useful spells, such as Grease, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement, ect. My own wizard used up nearly his entire wand by the time he hit 5th level, at which time he sold what was left and crafted a CL5 wand. He's got 60 ARs under his belt, and I don't think he's used an actual weapon in the last 55 or so.... I think what's also important to consider is that the breakeven point of wands vs scrolls is 22 uses - you use that Wand of MM 22 times, you've broke even compared to scrolls if you then sell the Wand.
jstorrie 01-17-07, 02:45 PM	CL1 grease is also going to remain useful a lot longer than CL1 magic missile, which gets back to the whole principle of selecting consumables that are less affected by level. In a way, this favours blasty wizards a bit - the spells they'd memorize are more often level-dependent - but the best policy is to prep level-dependent or very common spells, get wands of common but level-independent effects (grease &c.) and get scrolls of level-independent and uncommon spells.