Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToddMorgan 05-03-07, 06:56 PM	how much does an animated shield cost? 4000 gp? it says on the srd that it costs as much as a +2 shield. does that mean an animated shield also has the +2 shield enhancement bonus or would that cost another 4000?
mowaca 05-03-07, 07:18 PM	All magic shields start with +1, so you'd pay 8000 more to make it a +1 Animated tower shield, total cost 9180gp.
ToddMorgan 05-03-07, 07:50 PM	i don't understand those numbers, can you break it down?
Jesse Heinig 05-03-07, 07:54 PM	The animated quality is equivalent to a +2 bonus. Before you can put a quality on a shield, though, it must be a magic shield (at least +1). To do that it needs to be masterwork. So: Tower Shield: 30 gp Masterwork: 150 gp +1 enhancement: 1,000 gp Making it animated is the equivalent of raising it from a +1 to a +3 shield, so: Animated enhancement: 8,000 gp. This is 'cause it normally costs 1,000 gp for a +1 shield, and 9,000 for a +3 shield. Essentially, it's the same as buying a +3 shield, except it's +1 and animated.
_metz_ 05-03-07, 09:41 PM	If I were getting an animated shield, I'd try to make it form something like adamantine too, in case it gets broken or something, more hardness is always useful... Of course one needs access, but if you do have it I would definitely do it, if you are investing that much already. (material is just an increase on base cost and doesn't add to enhancement cost of the shield)
kjenks 05-04-07, 09:55 AM	Remember that you'll still take that pesky attack penalty for wielding a tower shield, even if it's animated. Also check out the hide shield from Sandstorm. It's almost like a tower shield but it doesn't require a feat for proficiency.
dkay807 05-05-07, 02:25 PM	If I were getting an animated shield, I'd try to make it form something like adamantine too, in case it gets broken or something, more hardness is always useful... Of course one needs access, but if you do have it I would definitely do it, if you are investing that much already. (material is just an increase on base cost and doesn't add to enhancement cost of the shield) First of all, adamantine provides no benefit to shields apart from the fact that it makes it cost an additional 5,000 GP. Shields are extremely difficult to sunder regardless, so the adamantine you paid for will probably never come into play. Essentially, you're taking a 5,000 GP insurance policy in a 9,000 GP item that you'll most likely never use. Mithral is a much better idea since it reduces check penalty and ASF. It also adds a bit to the HP/Hardness (don't remember which)
_metz_ 05-05-07, 09:06 PM	Point taken, thats why I said make it from something other than normal for increased hardness. Didn't realize adamantine cost that much for a shield, oh well
GorTeX 05-06-07, 12:43 AM	First of all, adamantine provides no benefit to shields apart from the fact that it makes it cost an additional 5,000 GP. ..beside the fact that it gets 1/3 more HP and a hardness of 20 you meain :)
King Kashue 05-06-07, 02:09 AM	..beside the fact that it gets 1/3 more HP and a hardness of 20 you meain :) No, he said what he meant... 5,000g to get 6 hit points and 10 more hardness is a colossal waste of money, particularly in LG where the de facto 'rule' is "monsters will not sunder unless it's written into the tactics"... There is no substantive benefit to making it out of adamantine...
Swiftbrook 05-06-07, 01:24 PM	Remember that you'll still take that pesky attack penalty for wielding a tower shield, even if it's animated. This doesn't seem right. You take a -2 penalty to attack for the shield encumberance, but you are not encumbered by the shield if it's animated. -Swiftbrook
clik_ml 05-06-07, 02:04 PM	Technically there is a substantive benefit to making a shield adamantine, and that is for using it as a weapon via shield bash versus things with hardness. I will definite grant that this has zero synergy with the Animated shield enhancement... unless you make it an Animated Dancing Bashing Adamantine shield. Then there's synergy that you can revel in as you sink all of your money into a single weapon/armor item. If I ever get to play again (and start a bunch of new characters of which one will be a shield fighter), then someday I'll be hoping for an Adamantine shield. [edit: actually it's more useless than that since adamantine spikes on a shield are better for dealing damage, however you can't sunder with a piercing weapon, which is why eventually I'll have an adamantine large shield which can bash through walls]
King Kashue 05-06-07, 02:39 PM	This doesn't seem right. You take a -2 penalty to attack for the shield encumberance, but you are not encumbered by the shield if it's animated. -Swiftbrook The Animated ability says that you treat it as if you're wielding the shield, so all ASF, Armor Check Penalty, and the Tower shield's -2 apply...The only difference is now you can use two-weapons, two-handed, or have a hand open for spellcasting while still using the shield.
kjenks 05-07-07, 07:43 AM	I think of this as having an extra magical arm that does nothing but wield the shield.
ShinAkuma2 05-07-07, 12:31 PM	I think of this as having an extra magical arm that does nothing but wield the shield. Ha, so I'm not the only person who pictures that? :)
Haro 05-10-07, 08:05 PM	I know this is a contentious issue, but I hate, hate, *hate* the Animated enhancement. It imbalances fighting with a Two Handed Weapon, which in turn imbalances Power Attack because it gives PCs the extra damage without the lower AC of a Sword & Board type or the feat commitment of a Two Weapon Fighting type. For 9000gp, it is almost offensively unfair to melee combatants who don't have access or use a different fighting technique. Sorry about the rant. I have a 15th level swashbuckler type, so the bitterness runs deep and wide. :) Joe
Swiftbrook 05-10-07, 08:29 PM	I know this is a contentious issue, but I hate, hate, *hate* the Animated enhancement. It imbalances fighting with a Two Handed Weapon, which in turn imbalances Power Attack because it gives PCs the extra damage without the lower AC of a Sword & Board type or the feat commitment of a Two Weapon Fighting type. For 9000gp, it is almost offensively unfair to melee combatants who don't have access or use a different fighting technique. Sorry about the rant. I have a 15th level swashbuckler type, so the bitterness runs deep and wide. :) Joe I understand, but I have an archer who will be purchasing this next. With my light armor, I must have one to live! It's not going to be a tower shield, can't take the penalty (that I don't think I should be taking, but that's another issue). -Swiftbrook
Shieldhart91 05-10-07, 08:41 PM	A very cheap alternative to masterwork shields in the purposes of creating an animated shield would be, of course, to get dwarvencraft ;-) I should think only Furydondian's who were around in Year 5 and probably some Ulekians have access to it.
GorTeX 05-10-07, 10:39 PM	how is that cheaper...dwarven craft is basically a 'better' masterwork that costs 300gp instead of 150 for armor (or 600 instead of 300 for weapons).
KarmaInferno 05-12-07, 07:48 PM	I will definite grant that this has zero synergy with the Animated shield enhancement... unless you make it an Animated Dancing Bashing Adamantine shield. Then there's synergy that you can revel in as you sink all of your money into a single weapon/armor item. I have been thinking of doing that for my HL campaign character, plus making it Intelligent. It'd almost be like having another cohort. =) -karma
LachlarlanIII 05-15-07, 11:53 AM	This doesn't seem right. You take a -2 penalty to attack for the shield encumberance, but you are not encumbered by the shield if it's animated. -Swiftbrook I like to think of an animated tower shield as being just as large and clumsy as a standard tower shield that it it still gets in the way when you go to attack.
Shieldhart91 05-15-07, 10:09 PM	Dwarvencraft is not just masterwork. It provides hit points to the armor that is very essential in case you get some nasty sunder attempt by some bastard man.
clannagh 05-15-07, 10:40 PM	No, he said what he meant... 5,000g to get 6 hit points and 10 more hardness is a colossal waste of money, particularly in LG where the de facto 'rule' is "monsters will not sunder unless it's written into the tactics"... There is no substantive benefit to making it out of adamantine... Especially considering that according to the PHB errata: "Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon's or shield's hardness and +10 to its hit points"
GorTeX 05-16-07, 01:10 AM	Dwarvencraft is not just masterwork. It provides hit points to the armor that is very essential in case you get some nasty sunder attempt by some bastard man. yea, a 'better masterwork' (Ie. masterwork benifits plus the HP and hardness increase like adamantine). I'm still wondering how double masterwork cost is cheaper than masterwork cost... now, cheaper than an adamantine item, yea..that might be it.
Gelth 05-18-07, 02:19 PM	I know this is a contentious issue, but I hate, hate, *hate* the Animated enhancement. It imbalances fighting with a Two Handed Weapon, which in turn imbalances Power Attack because it gives PCs the extra damage without the lower AC of a Sword & Board type or the feat commitment of a Two Weapon Fighting type. For 9000gp, it is almost offensively unfair to melee combatants who don't have access or use a different fighting technique. Sorry about the rant. I have a 15th level swashbuckler type, so the bitterness runs deep and wide. :) Joe Preach on, brother! Animated as an enhancement invalidates the concept of using a single weapon one-handed with a shield. Once Animated becomes available, two weapon or two handed wielders can have the only benefit that weapon and shield users get, for a little gold. Weapon and shield is the single most effective medieval fighting style, from everything I've read, and that one magical enhancement warps the entire combat system away from it. R&D hates it too: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20051216a If I could ban it, I would in a heartbeat. --Penn, Ket Triad