APL Survival Rate? [Archive] - Wizards Community

APL Survival Rate? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lavyan
10-17-06, 08:17 PM I am currently sign up for a local convnetion and the highest level PC I have is 2nd. The issue is that everyone else that signed up is about 10th? The questions is what is my survivor rate, a 2nd level PC in an APL 10 mod?

I would assume that the actual mod could help or hender the suvivor rate, so the mod in question is COR6-08 Catching Breath (APL 2-16) (LG)?

As a general question, what is the highest PC level / APL differential anyone has survived?

Thanks
JJeff
10-17-06, 08:54 PM I can't tell you the highest as I have only seen a differential of 3 and the game had all the higher level players continually protect the lower level one (Level 4s protecting a Level 1 in an APL 4... don't ask me why this became like that).

This kinda caused the higher level players to take risks and do things that endangered themselves, causing them to nearly TPK because of the amount of resources and protection they had to use to make sure the level 1 survived.

I think it's not your survivability that could be an issue, you have to consider the other players too. If they begin to have to babysit you (Yes, some players won't care and let you die, but I believe most would help and protect), they could put themselves at risk too.

But if you want to know. Based on what I see and what I have DM-ed, I wouldn;t suggest you even try. Please try to find a APL 2 or 4 table if possible. I have seen Level 2s nearly die in an APL 4 and I wouldn't want to think what would happen to a Level 2 in an APL 10 (and still only get 1/2 XP and 1/2 Gold for all the trouble).

I mean APL2 is Dretch, Zombies and Warrior 1s, APL 10 is Nalfeshnees, Vampire Lords and Dragons... Way to big a gap.
ShinAkuma2
10-17-06, 09:05 PM I've heard of a 4th level at APL 14, but at that point, he was simply hiding behind a tower shield and "watching" for exp.
Sieylianna
10-17-06, 09:06 PM I can't tell you the highest as I have only seen a differential of 3 and the game had all the higher level players continually protect the lower level one (Level 4s protecting a Level 1 in an APL 4... don't ask me why this became like that).

I'm guessing the OP was looking at warhorn or the like. Most of the time a substantial number of people will not sign up on-line, in addiiton the less expeerienced players are the ones who are most likely to just show up. So you may very well find a table which is more suitable when the time comes.

One local PC was taken from 1st to 7th playing a steady diet of APL 14 and 16 modules. Yes, he didn't contribute much and he was a dwarf fighter with plenty of hit points and items suited for a PC well above his level (this was before you took 1/2 good out of tier).

It can be done, but the low level can't contribute much and will easily die if he's in the wrong place when a high level spell goes off.

Ed
kenobi65
10-17-06, 09:25 PM Well, Catching Breath is billed as a "roleplaying-intensive" module -- in other words, it's not a dungeon crawl. That said, the combats *are* level-appropriate, and playing that high up is undoubtedly risky.

But, as Ed notes, what gets signed up on Warhorn isn't always what shows up at the con.
ezreal2001
10-17-06, 09:51 PM I am currently sign up for a local convnetion and the highest level PC I have is 2nd. The issue is that everyone else that signed up is about 10th? The questions is what is my survivor rate, a 2nd level PC in an APL 10 mod?

I would assume that the actual mod could help or hender the suvivor rate, so the mod in question is COR6-08 Catching Breath (APL 2-16) (LG)?

As a general question, what is the highest PC level / APL differential anyone has survived?

Thanks

Having run this one a few times the correct question shouldn't be about survival it should be about enjoyment. This module is definitly one of best role play mods in LG, so the level difference won't matter there, however the combats are APL approriate, so being 8 levels below the APL will make it difficult for your PC to be effective.

My advice is that you will get the most enjoyment from playing this game at an APL appropriate for the PC rather than playing whatever table is availible.

Oh and try play it with PCs that have palyed "Shedding Scales" and or "Here there be Dragons"
DuctShuiTengu
10-17-06, 11:08 PM I once played up to APL 16 with a 7th level char, just for S&Gs (we were playing a retired mod just to see what APL 16 actually looked like. I ended up not having time to figure out a 16th level version of my char) and survived. Though honestly, the rest of the party wouldn't have suffered any from my not being there, and might even have been better off. I killed one of the enemies we faced, but that was because it was flying in an antimagic field and I was the only archer. In a more serious mod, I went through the APL 10 version of GRM 6-IN2 with the same char at 6th level. Oddly, despite having played up more often than I probably should, all 4 of the times I've died, I've been at or above APL. And aside from the APL 16 I mentioned, I've almost always been able to contribute reasonably well. Occasionally (though not very often) have run into problems with DR, but that's a fairly standard concern with archers.
copper_wyrmling
10-18-06, 12:14 AM I've seen a L3 fighter play APL 14, and he survived, and was actually really useful. (One combat had DR 20 / non-magic - guess who was carrying the most non-magic weapons in the party?) He was playing that high because the rest of the party was about to retire (L17 druid, L17 ranger, L17 paladin, L16 rogue iirc, playing down to 14 because that's where the module capped), and the PCs were pretty famous in our region, so he wanted to meet them in-character and was willing to risk dying for that chance.

Of course, that mod was written so that the untiered L1 NPCs could travel with the party and not get splatted. You're not always that lucky. In particular, in another mod I ran for that high-level table, one of my NPCs was throwing CL 17 Blasphemy (L16 Iuzian cleric with the Evil domain), which isn't out of line at APL 16, but anyone playing way out of tier is in trouble.

Catching Breath at APL 10 could be extremely dangerous for a L2, but it's unlikely to hit you with an automatic instant kill like some of the games out there.
drufause
10-18-06, 03:54 AM It goes like this. Do you trust your friends, and keep your head down. If you are playing with a group of 6 and you are the only one low and the party is balanced and you trust them then it is doable. If there is no tank and no cleric at the table I would not recommend it. Also don’t complain if you die and loose everything in the module. The Difference in Living Greyhawk between a level 10 and a level 2 is kind of like the difference between an Airforce file clerk and an US Marine Force Recon solder so don’t expect to do much more than be there for roleplay.
paigeoliver
10-18-06, 09:49 AM The one low level character type that can help best at high level tables are high charisma pure marshalls. Their auras are as useful to 15th level characters as they are to second level ones. At least they can be of some use while they take total defense actions round after round.

The next most useful would be Bards (assuming no other bards at the table), as the +1/+1 bard song is better than nothing.

Next would come archers and all spellcasters in a tie. The spellcasters can at least pop a couple buff spells and maybe use a few borrowed wands, and the archers can fire at opponents that don't look like they have DR.

Coming in dead last would be every kind of melee character. Your low level melee character can't really contribute anything without dying. Even popping in with a reach weapon to assist attacks or armor class could be suicide.

Also, if your low level is trying to survive you might want to ready to move away at an angle whenever an opponent comes within 15' feet of you. Doing that will help you live a lot longer than doing total defense actions (since your total defense AC will likely still be around the same number as the bad guys attack bonus).
Randall Montgomery
10-18-06, 10:56 AM The big question is how well your PC is geared toward handling Area spells, because that's the one thing your party won't be able to effectively shield you from. If you get caught in a 10d6 fireball, (very likely at this APL) you're looking at an average of 13 HP damage if you make the save, which is probably around DC 18 minimum, and 35 HP if you don't. If your character can survive one of these, then by all means play up to 10. Otherwise, I would strongly discourage you from doing so.
lavyan
10-18-06, 05:45 PM Well I appretiate everyones thoughts, but my options are limited. This is a convention that I am spending an hour to drive to and the only mod I'm doing for said drive (it's a Friday night session). Two of the other tables are full and one other is playing a mod I have already played? Hopefuly 'Sieylianna' is right and everything works its self out? If not, I just plan on gaming (I'm not to concerned about dying).

Thanks
Sieylianna
10-19-06, 07:50 AM Well I appretiate everyones thoughts, but my options are limited. This is a convention that I am spending an hour to drive to and the only mod I'm doing for said drive (it's a Friday night session). Two of the other tables are full and one other is playing a mod I have already played? Hopefuly 'Sieylianna' is right and everything works its self out? If not, I just plan on gaming (I'm not to concerned about dying).

I'm guessing this is WKRP? If so, you and your son (?) would be two people towards an APL 2 table. I'd suggest talking to Evan Miller when you check in just so he is aware of your situation. I'm scheduled to play the VTF that slot and Catching Breath on Sunday afternoon, but I could potentially change my schedule to get a third player for APL 2, if I can do it without leaving myself a slot with nothing to do.

Ed
lavyan
10-20-06, 10:47 PM Thanks Ed, but everything went smoothly. When everyone showed up they were more than happy to bring out some lower level characters and we had a great time playing an APL 4.

Thanks again!
Sieylianna
10-22-06, 09:04 PM Well, Catching Breath is billed as a "roleplaying-intensive" module -- in other words, it's not a dungeon crawl. That said, the combats *are* level-appropriate, and playing that high up is undoubtedly risky.

I thought the combats were incredibly tough. I was going to play APL 12 with my druid 11, but ended up playing my 4th level cleric at APL 6 because it was going to be a four player table. (I also have a 7th archer, but the cleric played clipping wings and is going for RSOP with major emphasis on healing and turning, and they didn't have a cleric).

Ed
kenobi65
10-23-06, 12:28 AM I thought the combats were incredibly tough. I was going to play APL 12 with my druid 11, but ended up playing my 4th level cleric at APL 6 because it was going to be a four player table.

I think they get tough, fast. I played it at APL 2, and the combats were pretty easy. I've only ever really prepped it at APLs 2 and 4, and they didn't strike me as bad. I think they get nutty fast after that, however. (And I think the monster in the first combat at APL 14 is just insane...)
_m_
10-23-06, 01:51 AM while on the topic of apl's and survival:

what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party:

7 druid (underpowered build)
5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built)
6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon)
2 barbarian (nuf said)
5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )
4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort)

[ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category
clik_ml
10-23-06, 02:01 AM while on the topic of apl's and survival:

what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party:

7 druid (underpowered build)
5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built)
6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon)
2 barbarian (nuf said)
5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )
4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort)

[ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category

Well by your description, just about the only main contributors will be your wizard and the bard (who if it has nobody decent to support/boost, becomes less of a boon). If that is a correct assessment, then if anything happens to your character (and it can happen), then your party will be doomed.

I really am at a loss as to how a 7 druid can be poorly built. Unless its wisdom is so low that it can't cast all its spells, then it should have wildshape, 4th level spells, and an animal companion to boot. You really can't mess that up that much- summon a couple critters(1d3 dire wolves perhaps), have the bard inspire, and everyone makes it home safe. I suppose a hawk or rat companion would stink as opposed to a rhino companion which would rule... but the meat is still firmly on the bones of the druid even without the animal companion.
Madfox11
10-23-06, 07:51 AM Depends entirely on the adventure since even the most RP intensive adventures can contain sick fights. Personally I would advice you against doing so, since there is always the chance of an EL 11 encounter which would be real tough for this group.
Sieylianna
10-23-06, 08:12 AM while on the topic of apl's and survival:

what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party:

7 druid (underpowered build)
5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built)
6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon)
2 barbarian (nuf said)
5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )
4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort)

You only have one PC who is at APL. I'd say the odds of success are near zero unless the judge is very generous. As pointed out, even role-playing modules need X number of combat EL's to earn your XP.

Ed
Iswald
10-23-06, 09:58 AM There could be some evil traps instead of combats.
Drezden
10-23-06, 10:59 AM Aint that the truth. Just played and judged a mod that was heavily roleplaying, mixed in with 2 very tough combats. At APL8, the BBG had over 200 hps, a 30 AC, good saves, 15 DR, and was wielding a high multiplier crit weapon with the usual uber strength and Power Attack. I would expect a substandard APL table to have trouble beating it.

Daren

Depends entirely on the adventure since even the most RP intensive adventures can contain sick fights. Personally I would advice you against doing so, since there is always the chance of an EL 11 encounter which would be real tough for this group.
Sieylianna
10-23-06, 12:24 PM There could be some evil traps instead of combats.

The party also appears to be weak in handling traps, but its's tough to be certain. The rogue/ranger/highland stalker isn't what I'd choose for a trap handler.

Ed
Iswald
10-23-06, 12:37 PM I just meant that the reason the party gets TPK'd or is unable to finish the mod for whatever reason could be something other than combat that the author put in.
solbergb
10-23-06, 02:02 PM Cactching Breath has one of those fights that can scale badly with level...and possibly two depending on how the other was scaled. I can tell that just from the type of opponent fought when I played it.

At some APL's the fights will be easy. At others, very difficult. At APL6, they're kind of in the "Just right" category.
solbergb
10-23-06, 02:08 PM while on the topic of apl's and survival:

what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party:

7 druid (underpowered build)
5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built)
6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon)
2 barbarian (nuf said)
5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )
4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort)

[ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category

Bad idea. This party can manage APL6, but 8 is asking for it. Expecially with a noncontributing APL2 character filling out one of the slots.

You've got three casters none of whom are even up to APL6 scratch except the druid, much less APL8. You've got a cohort (by definition underequipped and usually crappy attributes). Your front line fighter is a L7 animal companion and from what you say your strongest character (the druid) is played weak (I have a hard time with how a L7 druid can have an underpowered build..that's almost impossible. But it can be played badly)

5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )

Uh..uber at what? L7 wizard with some extra hitpoints and attributes (based on template) and immune to crits when polymorphed. You'd likely be strong at APL6, and ok at APL8, but uber?
_m_
10-23-06, 07:15 PM 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D )

Uh..uber at what? L7 wizard with some extra hitpoints and attributes (based on template) and immune to crits when polymorphed. You'd likely be strong at APL6, and ok at APL8, but uber?

twas a joke lol. the advantage of the wiz is that his familiar has 38 ac and damage reduction, so makes a decent tank, and in poly formand buffed the wiz has 30 ac, and with 24 int and 18 con (22 buffed) , he holds his own fairly well.

we played the game, at 8. turned out to be VERY rp intensive. only 2 fights. one of which was just a bunch of straight damage mobs, which hurt the bard / sorc a fair bit on the first round, and killed the animal companion outright, but after that didnt do much, as they got tanked by the cohort (who incidentaly is really quite well equiped, and as an AR cohort, has better stats than a standard lg toon), me, and my familiar. The other fight was against some insane casters, but we won initiative and took them out before we even knew what they were :D

in retrospect, i wouldnt play an 8 with such a low party unless i knew it was going to be as RP heavy as this. though it did give our poor diplomat a real chance to shine.

theres technically nothing wrong with the druid, the problem is the player plays it like a sorcerer... every fight, it stands at the back and calls lightning. thats it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lavyan 10-17-06, 08:17 PM	I am currently sign up for a local convnetion and the highest level PC I have is 2nd. The issue is that everyone else that signed up is about 10th? The questions is what is my survivor rate, a 2nd level PC in an APL 10 mod? I would assume that the actual mod could help or hender the suvivor rate, so the mod in question is COR6-08 Catching Breath (APL 2-16) (LG)? As a general question, what is the highest PC level / APL differential anyone has survived? Thanks
JJeff 10-17-06, 08:54 PM	I can't tell you the highest as I have only seen a differential of 3 and the game had all the higher level players continually protect the lower level one (Level 4s protecting a Level 1 in an APL 4... don't ask me why this became like that). This kinda caused the higher level players to take risks and do things that endangered themselves, causing them to nearly TPK because of the amount of resources and protection they had to use to make sure the level 1 survived. I think it's not your survivability that could be an issue, you have to consider the other players too. If they begin to have to babysit you (Yes, some players won't care and let you die, but I believe most would help and protect), they could put themselves at risk too. But if you want to know. Based on what I see and what I have DM-ed, I wouldn;t suggest you even try. Please try to find a APL 2 or 4 table if possible. I have seen Level 2s nearly die in an APL 4 and I wouldn't want to think what would happen to a Level 2 in an APL 10 (and still only get 1/2 XP and 1/2 Gold for all the trouble). I mean APL2 is Dretch, Zombies and Warrior 1s, APL 10 is Nalfeshnees, Vampire Lords and Dragons... Way to big a gap.
ShinAkuma2 10-17-06, 09:05 PM	I've heard of a 4th level at APL 14, but at that point, he was simply hiding behind a tower shield and "watching" for exp.
Sieylianna 10-17-06, 09:06 PM	I can't tell you the highest as I have only seen a differential of 3 and the game had all the higher level players continually protect the lower level one (Level 4s protecting a Level 1 in an APL 4... don't ask me why this became like that). I'm guessing the OP was looking at warhorn or the like. Most of the time a substantial number of people will not sign up on-line, in addiiton the less expeerienced players are the ones who are most likely to just show up. So you may very well find a table which is more suitable when the time comes. One local PC was taken from 1st to 7th playing a steady diet of APL 14 and 16 modules. Yes, he didn't contribute much and he was a dwarf fighter with plenty of hit points and items suited for a PC well above his level (this was before you took 1/2 good out of tier). It can be done, but the low level can't contribute much and will easily die if he's in the wrong place when a high level spell goes off. Ed
kenobi65 10-17-06, 09:25 PM	Well, Catching Breath is billed as a "roleplaying-intensive" module -- in other words, it's not a dungeon crawl. That said, the combats are level-appropriate, and playing that high up is undoubtedly risky. But, as Ed notes, what gets signed up on Warhorn isn't always what shows up at the con.
ezreal2001 10-17-06, 09:51 PM	I am currently sign up for a local convnetion and the highest level PC I have is 2nd. The issue is that everyone else that signed up is about 10th? The questions is what is my survivor rate, a 2nd level PC in an APL 10 mod? I would assume that the actual mod could help or hender the suvivor rate, so the mod in question is COR6-08 Catching Breath (APL 2-16) (LG)? As a general question, what is the highest PC level / APL differential anyone has survived? Thanks Having run this one a few times the correct question shouldn't be about survival it should be about enjoyment. This module is definitly one of best role play mods in LG, so the level difference won't matter there, however the combats are APL approriate, so being 8 levels below the APL will make it difficult for your PC to be effective. My advice is that you will get the most enjoyment from playing this game at an APL appropriate for the PC rather than playing whatever table is availible. Oh and try play it with PCs that have palyed "Shedding Scales" and or "Here there be Dragons"
DuctShuiTengu 10-17-06, 11:08 PM	I once played up to APL 16 with a 7th level char, just for S&Gs (we were playing a retired mod just to see what APL 16 actually looked like. I ended up not having time to figure out a 16th level version of my char) and survived. Though honestly, the rest of the party wouldn't have suffered any from my not being there, and might even have been better off. I killed one of the enemies we faced, but that was because it was flying in an antimagic field and I was the only archer. In a more serious mod, I went through the APL 10 version of GRM 6-IN2 with the same char at 6th level. Oddly, despite having played up more often than I probably should, all 4 of the times I've died, I've been at or above APL. And aside from the APL 16 I mentioned, I've almost always been able to contribute reasonably well. Occasionally (though not very often) have run into problems with DR, but that's a fairly standard concern with archers.
copper_wyrmling 10-18-06, 12:14 AM	I've seen a L3 fighter play APL 14, and he survived, and was actually really useful. (One combat had DR 20 / non-magic - guess who was carrying the most non-magic weapons in the party?) He was playing that high because the rest of the party was about to retire (L17 druid, L17 ranger, L17 paladin, L16 rogue iirc, playing down to 14 because that's where the module capped), and the PCs were pretty famous in our region, so he wanted to meet them in-character and was willing to risk dying for that chance. Of course, that mod was written so that the untiered L1 NPCs could travel with the party and not get splatted. You're not always that lucky. In particular, in another mod I ran for that high-level table, one of my NPCs was throwing CL 17 Blasphemy (L16 Iuzian cleric with the Evil domain), which isn't out of line at APL 16, but anyone playing way out of tier is in trouble. Catching Breath at APL 10 could be extremely dangerous for a L2, but it's unlikely to hit you with an automatic instant kill like some of the games out there.
drufause 10-18-06, 03:54 AM	It goes like this. Do you trust your friends, and keep your head down. If you are playing with a group of 6 and you are the only one low and the party is balanced and you trust them then it is doable. If there is no tank and no cleric at the table I would not recommend it. Also don’t complain if you die and loose everything in the module. The Difference in Living Greyhawk between a level 10 and a level 2 is kind of like the difference between an Airforce file clerk and an US Marine Force Recon solder so don’t expect to do much more than be there for roleplay.
paigeoliver 10-18-06, 09:49 AM	The one low level character type that can help best at high level tables are high charisma pure marshalls. Their auras are as useful to 15th level characters as they are to second level ones. At least they can be of some use while they take total defense actions round after round. The next most useful would be Bards (assuming no other bards at the table), as the +1/+1 bard song is better than nothing. Next would come archers and all spellcasters in a tie. The spellcasters can at least pop a couple buff spells and maybe use a few borrowed wands, and the archers can fire at opponents that don't look like they have DR. Coming in dead last would be every kind of melee character. Your low level melee character can't really contribute anything without dying. Even popping in with a reach weapon to assist attacks or armor class could be suicide. Also, if your low level is trying to survive you might want to ready to move away at an angle whenever an opponent comes within 15' feet of you. Doing that will help you live a lot longer than doing total defense actions (since your total defense AC will likely still be around the same number as the bad guys attack bonus).
Randall Montgomery 10-18-06, 10:56 AM	The big question is how well your PC is geared toward handling Area spells, because that's the one thing your party won't be able to effectively shield you from. If you get caught in a 10d6 fireball, (very likely at this APL) you're looking at an average of 13 HP damage if you make the save, which is probably around DC 18 minimum, and 35 HP if you don't. If your character can survive one of these, then by all means play up to 10. Otherwise, I would strongly discourage you from doing so.
lavyan 10-18-06, 05:45 PM	Well I appretiate everyones thoughts, but my options are limited. This is a convention that I am spending an hour to drive to and the only mod I'm doing for said drive (it's a Friday night session). Two of the other tables are full and one other is playing a mod I have already played? Hopefuly 'Sieylianna' is right and everything works its self out? If not, I just plan on gaming (I'm not to concerned about dying). Thanks
Sieylianna 10-19-06, 07:50 AM	Well I appretiate everyones thoughts, but my options are limited. This is a convention that I am spending an hour to drive to and the only mod I'm doing for said drive (it's a Friday night session). Two of the other tables are full and one other is playing a mod I have already played? Hopefuly 'Sieylianna' is right and everything works its self out? If not, I just plan on gaming (I'm not to concerned about dying). I'm guessing this is WKRP? If so, you and your son (?) would be two people towards an APL 2 table. I'd suggest talking to Evan Miller when you check in just so he is aware of your situation. I'm scheduled to play the VTF that slot and Catching Breath on Sunday afternoon, but I could potentially change my schedule to get a third player for APL 2, if I can do it without leaving myself a slot with nothing to do. Ed
lavyan 10-20-06, 10:47 PM	Thanks Ed, but everything went smoothly. When everyone showed up they were more than happy to bring out some lower level characters and we had a great time playing an APL 4. Thanks again!
Sieylianna 10-22-06, 09:04 PM	Well, Catching Breath is billed as a "roleplaying-intensive" module -- in other words, it's not a dungeon crawl. That said, the combats are level-appropriate, and playing that high up is undoubtedly risky. I thought the combats were incredibly tough. I was going to play APL 12 with my druid 11, but ended up playing my 4th level cleric at APL 6 because it was going to be a four player table. (I also have a 7th archer, but the cleric played clipping wings and is going for RSOP with major emphasis on healing and turning, and they didn't have a cleric). Ed
kenobi65 10-23-06, 12:28 AM	I thought the combats were incredibly tough. I was going to play APL 12 with my druid 11, but ended up playing my 4th level cleric at APL 6 because it was going to be a four player table. I think they get tough, fast. I played it at APL 2, and the combats were pretty easy. I've only ever really prepped it at APLs 2 and 4, and they didn't strike me as bad. I think they get nutty fast after that, however. (And I think the monster in the first combat at APL 14 is just insane...)
_m_ 10-23-06, 01:51 AM	while on the topic of apl's and survival: what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party: 7 druid (underpowered build) 5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built) 6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon) 2 barbarian (nuf said) 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) 4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort) [ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category
clik_ml 10-23-06, 02:01 AM	while on the topic of apl's and survival: what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party: 7 druid (underpowered build) 5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built) 6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon) 2 barbarian (nuf said) 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) 4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort) [ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category Well by your description, just about the only main contributors will be your wizard and the bard (who if it has nobody decent to support/boost, becomes less of a boon). If that is a correct assessment, then if anything happens to your character (and it can happen), then your party will be doomed. I really am at a loss as to how a 7 druid can be poorly built. Unless its wisdom is so low that it can't cast all its spells, then it should have wildshape, 4th level spells, and an animal companion to boot. You really can't mess that up that much- summon a couple critters(1d3 dire wolves perhaps), have the bard inspire, and everyone makes it home safe. I suppose a hawk or rat companion would stink as opposed to a rhino companion which would rule... but the meat is still firmly on the bones of the druid even without the animal companion.
Madfox11 10-23-06, 07:51 AM	Depends entirely on the adventure since even the most RP intensive adventures can contain sick fights. Personally I would advice you against doing so, since there is always the chance of an EL 11 encounter which would be real tough for this group.
Sieylianna 10-23-06, 08:12 AM	while on the topic of apl's and survival: what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party: 7 druid (underpowered build) 5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built) 6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon) 2 barbarian (nuf said) 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) 4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort) You only have one PC who is at APL. I'd say the odds of success are near zero unless the judge is very generous. As pointed out, even role-playing modules need X number of combat EL's to earn your XP. Ed
Iswald 10-23-06, 09:58 AM	There could be some evil traps instead of combats.
Drezden 10-23-06, 10:59 AM	Aint that the truth. Just played and judged a mod that was heavily roleplaying, mixed in with 2 very tough combats. At APL8, the BBG had over 200 hps, a 30 AC, good saves, 15 DR, and was wielding a high multiplier crit weapon with the usual uber strength and Power Attack. I would expect a substandard APL table to have trouble beating it. Daren Depends entirely on the adventure since even the most RP intensive adventures can contain sick fights. Personally I would advice you against doing so, since there is always the chance of an EL 11 encounter which would be real tough for this group.
Sieylianna 10-23-06, 12:24 PM	There could be some evil traps instead of combats. The party also appears to be weak in handling traps, but its's tough to be certain. The rogue/ranger/highland stalker isn't what I'd choose for a trap handler. Ed
Iswald 10-23-06, 12:37 PM	I just meant that the reason the party gets TPK'd or is unable to finish the mod for whatever reason could be something other than combat that the author put in.
solbergb 10-23-06, 02:02 PM	Cactching Breath has one of those fights that can scale badly with level...and possibly two depending on how the other was scaled. I can tell that just from the type of opponent fought when I played it. At some APL's the fights will be easy. At others, very difficult. At APL6, they're kind of in the "Just right" category.
solbergb 10-23-06, 02:08 PM	while on the topic of apl's and survival: what do you reckon the odds of success in an apl 8 role play intensive game are with the following party: 7 druid (underpowered build) 5 sorc 1 cleric (also poorly built) 6 bard 1 dragon disciple (diplomacy toon) 2 barbarian (nuf said) 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) 4 ranger 2 rogue 1 highland stalker (my cohort) [ edit] iirc, we have enough extra warhorses and junk to just pop up to the 8 category Bad idea. This party can manage APL6, but 8 is asking for it. Expecially with a noncontributing APL2 character filling out one of the slots. You've got three casters none of whom are even up to APL6 scratch except the druid, much less APL8. You've got a cohort (by definition underequipped and usually crappy attributes). Your front line fighter is a L7 animal companion and from what you say your strongest character (the druid) is played weak (I have a hard time with how a L7 druid can have an underpowered build..that's almost impossible. But it can be played badly) 5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) Uh..uber at what? L7 wizard with some extra hitpoints and attributes (based on template) and immune to crits when polymorphed. You'd likely be strong at APL6, and ok at APL8, but uber?
_m_ 10-23-06, 07:15 PM	5 wiz 2 geometer 1 warshaper 1 template (me... über :D ) Uh..uber at what? L7 wizard with some extra hitpoints and attributes (based on template) and immune to crits when polymorphed. You'd likely be strong at APL6, and ok at APL8, but uber? twas a joke lol. the advantage of the wiz is that his familiar has 38 ac and damage reduction, so makes a decent tank, and in poly formand buffed the wiz has 30 ac, and with 24 int and 18 con (22 buffed) , he holds his own fairly well. we played the game, at 8. turned out to be VERY rp intensive. only 2 fights. one of which was just a bunch of straight damage mobs, which hurt the bard / sorc a fair bit on the first round, and killed the animal companion outright, but after that didnt do much, as they got tanked by the cohort (who incidentaly is really quite well equiped, and as an AR cohort, has better stats than a standard lg toon), me, and my familiar. The other fight was against some insane casters, but we won initiative and took them out before we even knew what they were :D in retrospect, i wouldnt play an 8 with such a low party unless i knew it was going to be as RP heavy as this. though it did give our poor diplomat a real chance to shine. theres technically nothing wrong with the druid, the problem is the player plays it like a sorcerer... every fight, it stands at the back and calls lightning. thats it.