Post/Author/DateTime	Post
echoota 05-23-06, 02:51 AM	What is the best way to qualify for Arcane Archer? That is, what is the best way to get to it while maximizing the archer part of the build?
clik_ml 05-23-06, 08:53 AM	Depends upon what you're going for. Be warned that no matter how you approach the Arcane Archer class, it is very substandard by way of power. Your main schtick is imitating a level 3 wizard spell (Greater Magic Weapon). That's about it. A cleric could be throwing down GMW and Divine Powers and trumping pretty much anything an Arcane Archer has to offer (compare that by the time the ArcArch has Hail of Arrows, the cleric has 8th level spells). That said, if you wanted to proceed with this path, generally you're probably best off having the caster levels as a tedious afterthought. One or two levels of Sorcerer or what have you, and the rest in +1 BAB classes. If I were to make an Arcane Archer it would likely be along these lines... 2 Rgr/4 Bard/1 Rgr/X ArcArch Wood Elf (of course) 18 16 12 6 8 14 (archer) Feats 1- PBS 2R- Rapid Shot 3- Precise Shot 6- W Focus (Longbow) the rest of the feats are buyer's choice. One could perform any number of permutations on class levels, but the notion would generally include at least 2 ranger and 1 sorc or 2 bard (wizard is less tempting since wood elves are superior archers, yet have -2 int). Could have 2 Rgr/4 Ftr/1 Sorc for earliest iterative attack access and weapon spec, but then you have to either be a half-elf or enjoy exp penalties. Bard is not a bad substitute at all for Sorc on the grounds that you can Inspire Courage + Inspirational Boost for +2 attack and damage very early on. At level 5 you'll be attacking around +9/9 for 1d8+7 damage (assuming mw mighty[+4] comp longbow as only notable equipment). Not too shabby. - Erik ML
Jay_Ibero_911 05-23-06, 10:16 PM	Sadly, Arcane Archer is pretty sub-optimal as far as an archer build is concerned. there are many better paths, even fighter 12 archer type, but I did put together an interesting Arcane Archer build you may be interested in: Race:Wood Elf Alignment:Any non-good stat, score, cost, racial adjustment STR-16 (10)+2 DEX-15 (8)+2 CON-14 (6)-2 INT-8 (0)-2 WIS-8 (0) CHA-12 (4) Lv1(Fighter)Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot Lv2(Fighter)Rapid Shot Lv3(Hexblade)Weapon Focus Lv4(Hexblade)+1 DEX Lv5(Hexblade) Lv6(Hexblade)Manyshot Lv7(Arcane Archer) Lv8(Arcane Archer)+1 DEX Lv9(Arcane Archer)Improved Critical Lv10(Arcane Archer) Lv11(Arcane Archer) Lv12(Arcane Archer)Improved Precise Shot, +1 DEX Lv13(Arcane Archer) Lv14(Arcane Archer) Lv15(Arcane Archer)Woodland Archer You'll have pretty nice saves overall thanks to arcane resistance, and you can get a familiar. The best part is you get full bab though. On the downside, you can't make much use of the imbue arrow ability. At level 6 you can manyshot at +9 for 2d8+11 with a +1 composite(+4 str) Longbow, if within 30 feet of your target...that gets even nicer as your enhancement bonus goes up through arcane archer. You definately want to load up on special effect enhancements for your bow, since arcane archer will upgrade your enhancement bonus for free...
Lomiat 05-24-06, 01:35 AM	Or for something different, you could try either of the following builds: High-elf: Ftr6/Wiz1 Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8 Pt-blank, Precise, Rapid, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Manyshot, Practised Caster Get some mithral armor, and your chances are pretty good of being able to imbue an arrow with a 5d6 shocking grasp spell. Wood-elf: Rgr6/Warmage1 Str 16, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 12 Pt-blank, Rapid, Precise, Manyshot, Weapon Focus You can cast in light armor. Ranger gets you Arrow Mind (the best archer spell available), and Warmage doesn't get you a whole lot--but every once in a while, you can imbue an arrow with some extra dice of damage. High-elf: Ftr4/Brd4 Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12 Pt-blank, Precise, Rapid, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Leadership Take one extra level of Brd before going to Arcane Archer, apply 4th and 8th level bumps to CHA, and you get 2nd level spells (imbue Silence on arrow. Shoot arrow into caster so it protrudes out). You've got the CHA for Leadership, so grab whatever your playgroup needs, or if you play at cons, grab a dwarf Transmuter who casts Haste a lot, also Sonic Weapon. When the wizard's your hench-buddy, it's free buff time. Meanwhile, you have a decent Init modifier with your Dex, so in some combats, your first round action will be Inspirational Boost plus song for everyone to get +2 to hit and damage. Gives you (with Gloves +2 and your Str +2 comp longbow) +14/14/9 to hit with Rapid Shot and Pt-blank for 1d8+8 damage each arrow. (You can make your own weapon Sonic.) By 8th level, when your hench-buddy Hastes you, that's +15/15/15/10! I helped design a build quite similar to this for a friend of mine. He's hit 7th level now, and though his character's not the min-max machine I sometimes see, he rarely misses (has to roll low single-digits) and was averaging 22 damage per shot to undead in his last adventure (sacred frost bow).
Maesto 05-24-06, 02:03 AM	I reckon the best way to go for arcane archer is to stock up on the caster levels, actually, and just take a couple of arcane archer levels. For instance, if you have enough sorceror levels, imbue your arrows with fireburst - greater spells to get nukes going off every time you hit somewhere. Take practised spellcaster to keep on increasing the nuke damage. Thoughts?
solbergb 05-24-06, 09:10 AM	In Living Greyhawk, the main schtick means you actually *get* GMW at every table. This is by no means guaranteed. It also means you don't automatically suck if your main bow gets sundered or disarmed. The CV spells mean you get something for your one wizard level. I find a volley-oriented arcane archer every bit as powerful as the wildrunner archers, the pious templar archers blah blah (and any volley archer is better than single-shot OOTBI types). You build a low magic arcane archer pretty much exactly like you'd build a straight ranger, with int swapped for wisdom. (fighter6, ranger2/fighter4 and ranger6 are all decent entry points. Take the wiz level at level 7, after you've nailed down your core archery feats and achieved your BAB of 6 for your iterative+"bab 6" requisite feats) The high magic approach works a lot better when the campaign starts at level 12 than at level 1. Such "archers" are generally straight wizards or straight bards until about level 9 (bards) or 13 (wizard/sorc) and usually don't have the basic 3 archery feats until level 9. Which is fine except that after 12 levels of playing a sorc, you may decide when you get there that giving up 2 caster levels to hurl your antimagic field across the battlefield isn't as cool as it looked whe you started the character 3 years ago. Note also that a single arrow with a spell on it (imbue is a std action, you can't volley-imbue) generally does far less damage than a nonmagical archer volley. Imbue is a cute trick to extend the range of weird emanation type spells short range cones, it can't begin to compete with just shooting the enemy for raw damage. The archer builds described above don't have enough strength. IMHO, in Living Greyhawk, an archer needs a minimum 16 strength because for 3/4 of his career all the strength he has will be what he starts with (because spending cash on a belt of strength is an APL12+ luxury given all the other demands on an archer's cash). Plus any bow you invest in will be permanently substandard, since you can't upgrade the strength mod. 14 str archers are ok if they fit in rage and extra rage. Otherwise they're condemned to spending more on their bows than their peers, just to "keep up" in damage. (the ones I've seen tend to be an extra "d6" ahead in bow investment, and keep in mind that no +d6 enhancement works on all enemies..strength mods do) Str 16 dex 16 >> str 14 dex 18. It is important to hit things, but when you get 5 attacks a round and can't convert attack into damage with power attack, it is important to do the extra damage too.
Genghis Cohen 06-02-06, 01:19 PM	If you're looking to do maximum damage, and be able to avoid AoOs while in threatened squares, then I recommend this build, with Weapon Specialization at 6th level: Wood Elf 1) Ranger 2) Ranger 3) Fighter 4) Fighter 5) Fighter 6) Fighter 7) Wizard 8) Order of the Bow 9) Order of the Bow 10+) Arcane Archer
Howie23 06-02-06, 01:53 PM	Or for something different, you could try either of the following builds: High-elf: Ftr6/Wiz1 Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8 Pt-blank, Precise, Rapid, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Manyshot, Practised Caster Get some mithral armor, and your chances are pretty good of being able to imbue an arrow with a 5d6 shocking grasp spell. Unfortunately the imbue only allows area effect spells. So, 5d4 burning hands works, but shocking grasp doesn't. The silence idea was interesting. My arcane archer is not a particularly good build for LG: Greyelf: Rgr6/Wiz1/Arc1 Str12(??), Dex 18(gloves), Con 14 (bumps here), Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8. Pt-blank, precise, rapid, wpn focus, manyshot The outdoor skill monkey aspect is nice if you like such things, particularly in comparision to fighter builds. He wears mithral chainshirt, picking up AFC of 10%. I generally select self-buffs, such as Guided Shot. I'm really struggling with where to go at 9th (one more mod). Improved rapid is hard to pass up, but I might go Improved Crit to take advantage of volley fire...and it stacks with exacting shot (Rgr 2 spell). Have also considered practiced spellcaster(w/lots of Wiz Levels and CA&A at 12) or natural bond (Fido's not doing so well, these days)...very different ideas from the straight archery build. Likely will stick with straight archery build. David
jstorrie 06-05-06, 09:23 AM	Bard 6 / Paladin 2 / Spellsword 1 / Arcane Archer 2 / Sublime Chord 4 is an interesting variation, although the feats are quite tight. The disadvantage here is that you are locked into half-elf. The advantage is the ability to fire off fifth and sixth level spells in imbued arrows, including Evard's and the highly situational but highly powerful Antimagic Field. The real strength of the Arcane Archer, in my eyes, is not so much as a pure archer but as an archer who can play utility caster without losing actions in combat. Rather than focusing on pure damage output (although damage can certainly be very high for a heavy-caster AA) keep in mind that firing off arrows that also Dispel Magic or include powerful battlefield control spells may do more to win you encounters. Touch spells are also generally overpowered for their level if you can fire them at people a hundred feet away.
trollbill 06-05-06, 12:14 PM	If you want to maximize your spellcasting ability, which might make imbue arrow actually worthwhile, and still be able to take all 10 levels of Arcane Archer, go with Fighter1/Wizard6/Eldritch Knight 2 then switch to Arcane Archer.
qstor 06-05-06, 12:23 PM	I wouldn't do Bard for an Arcane Archer build, I'd use Sorcerer or Wizard for the Arrow Mind spells and other archery spells that aren't on the Bard list, with that spell, I feel you don't need Order of the Bow levels, and should go straight fighter otherwise till Arcane archer levels for all of the feats. Sure Ranger levels are nice but they don't get you all of the feats you need to be a good LG archer. Mike
Mommy was an Orc 06-05-06, 12:59 PM	I wouldn't do Bard for an Arcane Archer build Bard isn't so you're the best archer in town, it is the firing an Imbue'd Anti-Magic Field at the enemy BBEG at 13th level and being a reasonably competent Bard Archer from levels 1-8, then caster from 11+.
clik_ml 06-05-06, 04:51 PM	I wouldn't do Bard for an Arcane Archer build Well, ideally I wouldn't do an Arcane Archer build at all. Arcane Archers get better the less levels of Arcane Archer you have, with the apex of performance stopping at zero Arcane Archer levels. If you have to do it, then in 3.5 there really isn't anything better to do than Bard. You keep a better average of more BAB and spellcasting, you get extra attack and damage from inspire courage that indeed does make bards some of the best archers in town. Free use of light armor is just uber gravy. Jstorrie's build is a little off, but close to good. The 1 level dip in spellsword is an utter waste for the bard since he already has no spell failure for wearing light armor, especially when the 7th level of bard would give more skills, more bardsong, and the same +1 BAB. Trying to squeeze paladin and arcane archer in there really messes up getting into SubChord as soon as possible, and that is a big no-no. Most entertaining "Arcane Archer" build I've seen lately was fairly similar however- 8 Bard/2 Arcane Archer/2 SubChord/3 Eldritch Knight (I think it was on CharOp board). It doesn't really qualify as an Arcane Archer build in my eyes since it is just a dip, but by virtue of having very little Arcane Archer it makes a better character. It is awfully tempting not to take Eldritch Knight at the end and just keep the spellcasting churning, but for once an extra bonus feat is tempting since it takes til level 9 just to get rapid shot, and you're still short on Woodland Archer. Also feats are so tight that you can't afford Practiced Spellcaster which is the biggest downside of that build. A Bard/Sub Chord with no Arcane Archer levels at all would thus be an even better at arcane stuff and at archery, ironically (since you could ignore crappy weapon focus and get rapid shot and woodland archer that much sooner). You just miss out on the comical ability to hit people with arrows of silence, glitterdust, antimagic field, etc. You'll have to console yourself with being a good character in archery and spellcasting and party buffing/support and of course diplomancy from levels 1-15 instead. Tragic, to be sure.