Archer build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cynric
09-03-06, 07:40 PM Just thought I might try to get some clarification on some rules for a build I am considering.

Skirmish Damage is only on one attack a round, providing you move the ten feet required. Therefore, Manyshot does not get it on any arrows after the first.

Manyshot is a standard action.

Shot on the run allows manyshot as manyshot is a standard action.

Camouflage (Ranger\Scout class ability) allows you to hide in natural terrain even if you do not have anything to hide behind. What is the differernce between that and Hide in plain Sight, if any?

Can you use a combination of the above feats and class abilities and Woodland Archer to snipe every round.

The build I am looking at combines Scout, Ranger and hopefully Dread Commando (providing I can find access). It will work ok without Dread Commando, but would get a lot nastier with sudden strike etc.
DuctShuiTengu
09-03-06, 09:53 PM 1: Actually, there's no restriction on how many attacks per round you can apply skirmish damage to, but under most circumstances, you can't get more than one attack and still move 10 feet. Manyshot however, due to the way it's set up still only allows skirmish damage once.

2: Correct.

3: No. Shot on the Run specifies that you must be using the attack action with a ranged weapon. Manyshot, though similar, is a different action.

4: From my reading, Camoflage functions exactly the same as Hide in Plain Sight, except for the restrictions on where it can be used.

5: That depends on what you mean. Assuming that you can consistantly hit and then hide again every round, you can snipe at people every round without any of the above feats or class abilities. With Woodland Archer, you can move after you shoot and then hide again (allowing you to avoid the usual problem of them knowing where you are even if they can't see you). What I think you're asking is whether you can combine shot on the run with woodland archer to move, shoot, and keep moving before hiding again. Per a strictly literal reading of the rules, no you cannot as Woodland Archer only allows you to move after hiding again when sniping (without said feat, hiding again after sniping uses your move action for that turn), and doesn't allow for Shot on the Run. You'll likely run into some variation on this depending on yourr judge, however.
Cynric
09-04-06, 12:25 AM That pretty much sums up what I needed to know. Now I just have to figure out how to get access to Dread Commando. Sudden strike combining with skirmish means one arrow is really going to hurt, plus I always have the option of rapid shot as most archers.
Cynric
09-04-06, 05:11 AM Ok here is my proposed build.

Human
Str 12
Dex 17
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 8

Feats at first Point Blank and Precise Shot

1st level Scout Skirmish
2nd level Ranger Track
3rd level Ranger Rapid Shot, Dodge
4th level Scout
5th level Scout
6th level Scout Mobility, Shot on the Run
7th level Scout
8th level Scout
9th level Scout Many Shot
10th Level Scout Quick reconnoiter
11 to 15 dread Commando Woodland Archer and Improved Precise Shot

As stated the goal is to make a charcter capable of defeating traps, tracking, most of the mobility skills (Tumble. Swim, Jump, Climb, Balance) while still being able to contribute to the damage of the party.

Can anyone see any major problems with this build or suggestions on how to make it better
Thanks
echoota
09-04-06, 05:34 AM You might want to look at the shadowdancer prestige class in the DMG. With your feat picks and skill options you can easily glide into the class with the needed requirements and pick up Hide in Plain Sight. You can just do that one level dip, or see what else you want out of the class as it has a lot of cool effects.

I've been playing an archer build, I'm going in a different direction but I've been looking at dipping into scout for the skirmish ability. The thing though is that I want to figure out how to increase my 5 foot step to 10 feet so that I can combine skirmish with rapid shot. There are ways to do it with what is offered in D&D as a whole, but I haven't looked in detail to see if any of those options are legal in LG.

I don't have my books in front of me, so I don't know when Camoflage kicks in with the scout, but I think with the Shadowdancer's abilities you could set it up so that you could snipe and hide again and again. What this also opens up in stacking skirmish with the rogues sneak attack ability. Dip into rogue at some point and then if you are hiding an in 30 feet then you should be attacking your opponent flat footed as they don't know where you are, and with just a little bit of movement you'd be adding 2d6 to the attack.

Still, the best way to pull this off is to try and unlock the 10 foot step. Then you can combine it with Order of the Bow Initiate's abilities and be able to stack a heap of dice on top of each other.
Cynric
09-04-06, 07:26 AM That is kind of what I am trying to do. From what I can read, Camouflage works almost as good as hide in plain sight. So Providing I can get the Dread Commando Access, it should work with the sudden strike ability. As far as I know there is no way in LG to turn a 5ft step into a 10ft step. There is a feat in another book, I think it is a faerun book or OA that does it, but I do not believe it should ever be allowed in LG so that is a bust.
Mommy was an Orc
09-04-06, 08:59 AM I think once you start talking about Str 12/Dex 17/Con 12/Int 12, you should really look at both the races that give Dex bonuses and Tactile Trapfinder as a feat choice.

I'd personally drop the Dex to 16, Wisdom to 8, bump Str/Int/Con up to 14, and pick up a single level of Fighter. That'll get you the extra feat you need to pick up Tactile Trapfinder, give you a little more damage for when you can't skirmish. Because of your 14 Int, you'll be up skill points even with the level of Fighter.

You could also look at picking up an additional level of Ranger for Endurance, be a Wood Elf, and then take 2 levels of Wildrunner for the huge +6 Dex from Primal Scream.
Maesto
09-04-06, 10:29 AM There is another way to get a 10 ft step, but it's dodgy as hell... (at least I think it is). The Master's Dummy from the A&EG will give a monk a 10 foot step instead of a 5 foot step. Not getting it from anything that I write, though ;-)

Jolyon
Cynric
09-04-06, 07:48 PM And I would not even be looking for it Jolyon. I think it is as dodgy as hell.
Sieylianna
09-04-06, 08:14 PM OkCan anyone see any major problems with this build or suggestions on how to make it better

I don't think Scout is a good fit with an archer, because I don't believe giving up multiple attacks for skirmish damage is justified the majority of the time.

Ed
Cynric
09-04-06, 09:27 PM While that is true. I am looking at playing a woodsy rogue type, hence scout not rogue, that does not suck up healing resources by getting physical with the bad guys. It is mainly a trap\skill monkey that can contribute to cvombat through skirmish, or raqpid shot and then eventually (hopefully) sudden strike.
ezreal2001
09-04-06, 10:04 PM That pretty much sums up what I needed to know. Now I just have to figure out how to get access to Dread Commando. Sudden strike combining with skirmish means one arrow is really going to hurt, plus I always have the option of rapid shot as most archers.

Good starting archers actually require strength more dex. More to the point you can't upgrade the strength bonus on a bow so you don't want scrap a bow so you can up the strength bonus. So heres a few changes to your Stats

Str 16
Dex 15
Co 12
In 12
Wis 10
cha 8

This will let your PC use a MW Mty +3 Comp Longbow when he gets his Ranger level a 2nd level. It'll cost about 700 gp and should be the first significant purchase. It will provide +3 damage on every shot (including all those in the many shot)

You'll loose +1 to dex AC bonus along +1 to missile attack, but you can bump it at 4, 8 and 12 for a final Dex of 18 + gloves. Don't worry too much about the low AC - good archers aren't the line of fire all that often.

Lastly relying on precision damage (Sneak Attack, Skermish, Sudden strike etc) in general can be a pain in the arse because there far to many ways to avoid it and just check the wording on Sudden Strike, it may only apply if your opponent is flat footed (hasn't acted) as opposed to denied a dex bonus.
Cynric
09-04-06, 11:41 PM That is the way I read it. But keeping Spot and Listen maxed, along with haveing a massive (+14) initiative means that I should be able to get at least one, if not more shots in before they get their go.
ezreal2001
09-05-06, 12:05 AM That is the way I read it. But keeping Spot and Listen maxed, along with haveing a massive (+14) initiative means that I should be able to get at least one, if not more shots in before they get their go.

Just out of curiosity how do you get +14?

I see:
+8 from dex (lvl 12 dex 20 + gloves of Dex +6)
+2 from QR

so where does the +4 come from?
Cynric
09-05-06, 12:32 AM Dread commando gives an intiative boost to you and all allies within thirty feet at a rate of almost one per level from memory. Add in the battle fortitude from Scout levels and that just about does it.
Japangirl
09-05-06, 02:39 PM I don't think Tactile Trapsmith can be a fighter bonus feat.
Mommy was an Orc
09-05-06, 03:02 PM It isn't. He would be picking up Fighter 1 to be able to use one of his other feat slots on something else.

Dodge as an example is using up the 3rd level feat slot and is a Fighter bonus feat. If he were to take Fighter at 5th, it would delay Shot on the Run one level, but he could afford Tactile Trapfinder at the same time.

I don't think Tactile Trapsmith can be a fighter bonus feat.
Cynric
09-05-06, 06:57 PM Ok I think I have it finalised at the following

Ranger 2
Scout 4
Dread Commando (providing Access)

This should give me 1 off pure BAB Spot, listen, search, Disable maxed and a bunch of languages.

Race wood Elf
Ditch Shot on the run and take Tactile trapsmith instead. Get woodland archer around level 9.

Any other suggestions?
Puggle Halfwine
09-05-06, 10:49 PM Any other suggestions?

Wildrunner (from Races of the Wild) is nice for archers. Two levels gives you Primal Scream; +2 str and +6 dex (!!) as a free action usable 3+cha modifier times per day. Core in LG. Some easy to meet prerequisites.
JosephKell
09-07-06, 12:34 AM Wildrunner (from Races of the Wild) is nice for archers. Two levels gives you Primal Scream; +2 str and +6 dex (!!) as a free action usable 3+cha modifier times per day. Core in LG. Some easy to meet prerequisites.
So basically it is usable twice per day as most Archers seem to have 8 Charisma.

This is frustrating. Everytime I try to post advice for your question (in either of your two threads, which is against the CoC I might add) it gets bounced and my text is lost.

Here is the Gist.
1. Wood Elf sucks because of Con penalty. You will get hit.
2. Cleric Archer is better (or Ranger/Cleric, but you can't get Craft Wand until 9th). Not pigeonholed. Divine Insight makes skill checks very easy (stealthing is really worthless because there will be a loud PC at the table and reconning ahead is dangerous if not foolhardy). Also a Cleric Archer can craft weapon enhancements (the main source of damage) and can cast the spell Undead Bane Weapon (Limited spell, but 2 of the three characters I play have gotten access).
3. Full-Round Attack is better than Skirmishing at APL 4+. By APL 6, wizards and sorcerers have the Haste spell. At APL 4, you might have a Wizard or Sorcerer playing down with the Haste spell. Rapid Shot + Haste is 2 extra attacks. So assuming Scout 5/Ranger 2 (for +2d6 Skirmish), let's compare to hit and damage.
1 attack at 1d8+2d6+3 (strength)+1 (PBS) vs 3 attacks at -2 to hit (Rapid Shot and Haste) for 1d8+3 (strength)+1 (PBS). You are more likely to deal any damage at all.
4. A lot of the scary enemies are un-critable. I saw a Rogue play the Core Special the Pits of Atza.. whatever. It was very funny and very sad (His level 5 Rogue died while my Level 2 Cleric kept the party from being eaten).
Swiftbrook
09-07-06, 03:53 PM 1. Wood Elf sucks because of Con penalty. You will get hit.

I disagree.
The Wood Elf gets a +2 Str and +2 Dex for a penalty of -2 Chr and -2 Int.

My Wood Elf Ranger/Archer build was as follows:

Str 6 points = 14 +2 race = 16
Dex 10 points = 15 + 2 race = 18
Con 4 points = 12 - 2 race = 10
Wis 4 points = 12
Int 4 points = 12 - 2 race = 10
Chr 0 points = 8

So ...
Str +3
Dex +4
Con +0
Wis +1
Int +0
Chr -1

I put 2 points into constitution to cover the 2 point racial penalty. It would cost me an additional 6 points to bump my Dex from 16 to 18, or 4 points to bump my Str from 14 to 16. Either way I save points for my more important attributes. I'm not a frontliner. I don't need the extra Con boost.

-Seiftbrook
JosephKell
09-07-06, 06:41 PM I'm not a frontliner. I don't need the extra Con boost.Make sure it say that when the Golem drops you to -10.
Cynric
09-07-06, 06:53 PM Regarding the likelyhood of a Haste spell. I am really only taking 4 levels of scout for the one bonus feat and the trapfinding capabilities. That is what this character is prinmarily, traps and survival. I think I am going wood Elf but will have con 12 after the racial penalty.

Now all I have to decide is where I can take the character after level 11 as I have just discovered that Dread Commando is a 5 level prestige class. I am considering taking my third level of ranger at 12 and taking Occult Slayer after that, or just take fighter\ranger and cop the XP penalty.
JosephKell
09-07-06, 07:38 PM Regarding the likelyhood of a Haste spell. I am really only taking 4 levels of scout for the one bonus feat and the trapfinding capabilities. That is what this character is prinmarily, traps and survival. I think I am going wood Elf but will have con 12 after the racial penalty.Now, I know you don't want to hear (see) this. But you could also do Scout 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2 and get one additional feat.

It hurts your skills, but (shrug).Now all I have to decide is where I can take the character after level 11 as I have just discovered that Dread Commando is a 5 level prestige class. I am considering taking my third level of ranger at 12 and taking Occult Slayer after that, or just take fighter\ranger and cop the XP penalty.Why not go Occult Slayer right after Dread Commando? I am sure you can fight Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) and Improved Initiative in there somewhere (Improved Initiative is a Scout bonus feat).

Personally I think Occult Slayer first is better because you get that 1d6 damage vs spellcasters and creatures with spell-like abilities earlier. Also I am pretty sure Dread Commando is another Fort/Ref save class, so you will have an anemic Will save. The Occult Slayer dip gives Will Save +2 and Magical Defense +1 (bonus vs spells and spell like abilities).

Not to say Dread Commando is bad, I might have my archer go there after my 2nd level of Occult Slayer (I would have to check the feat requirements). The bonus to team initiative is very nice (especially since I already have a +9).

For an Archer, quite possibly the best magic item you can get (after a bow, but before gloves of dex) is Bracers of Quick Strike (or Quick Striking, whatever it is called). It gives you one extra attack as if you were hasted (no bonus to hit, but you get that extra one). This is great if you are going way before the Haste-caster PC in the party.

Remember though, that since you are doing a Scout 4/Ranger 2, you will never get Evasion (unless you go back to Scout later).

But the items you need to buy (in order) are:
1. MW Mighty (+3) Composite Longbow (700 gp).
2. MW Buckler shield (165 gp. PHB says that you can use a Bow or Crossbow at no penalty, which either means no penalty to attack, or you get your buckler bonus even if you use you bow).
3. MW Chain Shirt (if you buy this and later get access to a Mithril Chain Shirt, consider keeping the MW Chain Shirt until you need the gold, you can loan it to an ignorant player that has a PC in heavier armor to sleep in at night).
4. +1 on Bow (2,000 gp)
5. Bracers of Quick Strike (1,200 gp)
6. +1 on Buckler (this gives more time to get Mithril access before you enchant your chain shirt)
7. +1 on Shirt.
8. Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp)
9. Cloak (Vest if you get access) of Resistance +1 (1,000 gp)
10. Amulet of Health +2 (4,000 gp, you might even want this before the gloves)
11. Ring of Protection +1

You may want to buy a few Wands of CLW along the way (my Archer has 3 right now). Don't forget the cost of Raise Dead (5,450 gp).

Of course special ammunition types are very worth getting. One type of ammo to never buy is Burrowing Arrows. I bought a few and they were worthless.

For the record, I never got the Mithril Chain Shirt (I put a +1 on my armor just before I got access. And it only matters when I have to make Swim checks since I get +4 to Hide and Move Silently from a metaorg). And I am trying to get the Amulet of Health +2 now (dying twice sucks).
Cynric
09-07-06, 08:44 PM Thanks for the assist, I will have to look out for those bracers.
Iswald
09-09-06, 09:10 AM Dread commando gives an intiative boost to you and all allies within thirty feet at a rate of almost one per level from memory. Add in the battle fortitude from Scout levels and that just about does it.

The dread commando init bonus doesn't stack with the init bonus from scout (or streetfighter) levels.
Cynric
09-09-06, 11:09 PM Well I am only getting one bunus initiative point from scout so that is not too much of a loss.
:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cynric 09-03-06, 07:40 PM	Just thought I might try to get some clarification on some rules for a build I am considering. Skirmish Damage is only on one attack a round, providing you move the ten feet required. Therefore, Manyshot does not get it on any arrows after the first. Manyshot is a standard action. Shot on the run allows manyshot as manyshot is a standard action. Camouflage (Ranger\Scout class ability) allows you to hide in natural terrain even if you do not have anything to hide behind. What is the differernce between that and Hide in plain Sight, if any? Can you use a combination of the above feats and class abilities and Woodland Archer to snipe every round. The build I am looking at combines Scout, Ranger and hopefully Dread Commando (providing I can find access). It will work ok without Dread Commando, but would get a lot nastier with sudden strike etc.
DuctShuiTengu 09-03-06, 09:53 PM	1: Actually, there's no restriction on how many attacks per round you can apply skirmish damage to, but under most circumstances, you can't get more than one attack and still move 10 feet. Manyshot however, due to the way it's set up still only allows skirmish damage once. 2: Correct. 3: No. Shot on the Run specifies that you must be using the attack action with a ranged weapon. Manyshot, though similar, is a different action. 4: From my reading, Camoflage functions exactly the same as Hide in Plain Sight, except for the restrictions on where it can be used. 5: That depends on what you mean. Assuming that you can consistantly hit and then hide again every round, you can snipe at people every round without any of the above feats or class abilities. With Woodland Archer, you can move after you shoot and then hide again (allowing you to avoid the usual problem of them knowing where you are even if they can't see you). What I think you're asking is whether you can combine shot on the run with woodland archer to move, shoot, and keep moving before hiding again. Per a strictly literal reading of the rules, no you cannot as Woodland Archer only allows you to move after hiding again when sniping (without said feat, hiding again after sniping uses your move action for that turn), and doesn't allow for Shot on the Run. You'll likely run into some variation on this depending on yourr judge, however.
Cynric 09-04-06, 12:25 AM	That pretty much sums up what I needed to know. Now I just have to figure out how to get access to Dread Commando. Sudden strike combining with skirmish means one arrow is really going to hurt, plus I always have the option of rapid shot as most archers.
Cynric 09-04-06, 05:11 AM	Ok here is my proposed build. Human Str 12 Dex 17 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 11 Cha 8 Feats at first Point Blank and Precise Shot 1st level Scout Skirmish 2nd level Ranger Track 3rd level Ranger Rapid Shot, Dodge 4th level Scout 5th level Scout 6th level Scout Mobility, Shot on the Run 7th level Scout 8th level Scout 9th level Scout Many Shot 10th Level Scout Quick reconnoiter 11 to 15 dread Commando Woodland Archer and Improved Precise Shot As stated the goal is to make a charcter capable of defeating traps, tracking, most of the mobility skills (Tumble. Swim, Jump, Climb, Balance) while still being able to contribute to the damage of the party. Can anyone see any major problems with this build or suggestions on how to make it better Thanks
echoota 09-04-06, 05:34 AM	You might want to look at the shadowdancer prestige class in the DMG. With your feat picks and skill options you can easily glide into the class with the needed requirements and pick up Hide in Plain Sight. You can just do that one level dip, or see what else you want out of the class as it has a lot of cool effects. I've been playing an archer build, I'm going in a different direction but I've been looking at dipping into scout for the skirmish ability. The thing though is that I want to figure out how to increase my 5 foot step to 10 feet so that I can combine skirmish with rapid shot. There are ways to do it with what is offered in D&D as a whole, but I haven't looked in detail to see if any of those options are legal in LG. I don't have my books in front of me, so I don't know when Camoflage kicks in with the scout, but I think with the Shadowdancer's abilities you could set it up so that you could snipe and hide again and again. What this also opens up in stacking skirmish with the rogues sneak attack ability. Dip into rogue at some point and then if you are hiding an in 30 feet then you should be attacking your opponent flat footed as they don't know where you are, and with just a little bit of movement you'd be adding 2d6 to the attack. Still, the best way to pull this off is to try and unlock the 10 foot step. Then you can combine it with Order of the Bow Initiate's abilities and be able to stack a heap of dice on top of each other.
Cynric 09-04-06, 07:26 AM	That is kind of what I am trying to do. From what I can read, Camouflage works almost as good as hide in plain sight. So Providing I can get the Dread Commando Access, it should work with the sudden strike ability. As far as I know there is no way in LG to turn a 5ft step into a 10ft step. There is a feat in another book, I think it is a faerun book or OA that does it, but I do not believe it should ever be allowed in LG so that is a bust.
Mommy was an Orc 09-04-06, 08:59 AM	I think once you start talking about Str 12/Dex 17/Con 12/Int 12, you should really look at both the races that give Dex bonuses and Tactile Trapfinder as a feat choice. I'd personally drop the Dex to 16, Wisdom to 8, bump Str/Int/Con up to 14, and pick up a single level of Fighter. That'll get you the extra feat you need to pick up Tactile Trapfinder, give you a little more damage for when you can't skirmish. Because of your 14 Int, you'll be up skill points even with the level of Fighter. You could also look at picking up an additional level of Ranger for Endurance, be a Wood Elf, and then take 2 levels of Wildrunner for the huge +6 Dex from Primal Scream.
Maesto 09-04-06, 10:29 AM	There is another way to get a 10 ft step, but it's dodgy as hell... (at least I think it is). The Master's Dummy from the A&EG will give a monk a 10 foot step instead of a 5 foot step. Not getting it from anything that I write, though ;-) Jolyon
Cynric 09-04-06, 07:48 PM	And I would not even be looking for it Jolyon. I think it is as dodgy as hell.
Sieylianna 09-04-06, 08:14 PM	OkCan anyone see any major problems with this build or suggestions on how to make it better I don't think Scout is a good fit with an archer, because I don't believe giving up multiple attacks for skirmish damage is justified the majority of the time. Ed
Cynric 09-04-06, 09:27 PM	While that is true. I am looking at playing a woodsy rogue type, hence scout not rogue, that does not suck up healing resources by getting physical with the bad guys. It is mainly a trap\skill monkey that can contribute to cvombat through skirmish, or raqpid shot and then eventually (hopefully) sudden strike.
ezreal2001 09-04-06, 10:04 PM	That pretty much sums up what I needed to know. Now I just have to figure out how to get access to Dread Commando. Sudden strike combining with skirmish means one arrow is really going to hurt, plus I always have the option of rapid shot as most archers. Good starting archers actually require strength more dex. More to the point you can't upgrade the strength bonus on a bow so you don't want scrap a bow so you can up the strength bonus. So heres a few changes to your Stats Str 16 Dex 15 Co 12 In 12 Wis 10 cha 8 This will let your PC use a MW Mty +3 Comp Longbow when he gets his Ranger level a 2nd level. It'll cost about 700 gp and should be the first significant purchase. It will provide +3 damage on every shot (including all those in the many shot) You'll loose +1 to dex AC bonus along +1 to missile attack, but you can bump it at 4, 8 and 12 for a final Dex of 18 + gloves. Don't worry too much about the low AC - good archers aren't the line of fire all that often. Lastly relying on precision damage (Sneak Attack, Skermish, Sudden strike etc) in general can be a pain in the arse because there far to many ways to avoid it and just check the wording on Sudden Strike, it may only apply if your opponent is flat footed (hasn't acted) as opposed to denied a dex bonus.
Cynric 09-04-06, 11:41 PM	That is the way I read it. But keeping Spot and Listen maxed, along with haveing a massive (+14) initiative means that I should be able to get at least one, if not more shots in before they get their go.
ezreal2001 09-05-06, 12:05 AM	That is the way I read it. But keeping Spot and Listen maxed, along with haveing a massive (+14) initiative means that I should be able to get at least one, if not more shots in before they get their go. Just out of curiosity how do you get +14? I see: +8 from dex (lvl 12 dex 20 + gloves of Dex +6) +2 from QR so where does the +4 come from?
Cynric 09-05-06, 12:32 AM	Dread commando gives an intiative boost to you and all allies within thirty feet at a rate of almost one per level from memory. Add in the battle fortitude from Scout levels and that just about does it.
Japangirl 09-05-06, 02:39 PM	I don't think Tactile Trapsmith can be a fighter bonus feat.
Mommy was an Orc 09-05-06, 03:02 PM	It isn't. He would be picking up Fighter 1 to be able to use one of his other feat slots on something else. Dodge as an example is using up the 3rd level feat slot and is a Fighter bonus feat. If he were to take Fighter at 5th, it would delay Shot on the Run one level, but he could afford Tactile Trapfinder at the same time. I don't think Tactile Trapsmith can be a fighter bonus feat.
Cynric 09-05-06, 06:57 PM	Ok I think I have it finalised at the following Ranger 2 Scout 4 Dread Commando (providing Access) This should give me 1 off pure BAB Spot, listen, search, Disable maxed and a bunch of languages. Race wood Elf Ditch Shot on the run and take Tactile trapsmith instead. Get woodland archer around level 9. Any other suggestions?
Puggle Halfwine 09-05-06, 10:49 PM	Any other suggestions? Wildrunner (from Races of the Wild) is nice for archers. Two levels gives you Primal Scream; +2 str and +6 dex (!!) as a free action usable 3+cha modifier times per day. Core in LG. Some easy to meet prerequisites.
JosephKell 09-07-06, 12:34 AM	Wildrunner (from Races of the Wild) is nice for archers. Two levels gives you Primal Scream; +2 str and +6 dex (!!) as a free action usable 3+cha modifier times per day. Core in LG. Some easy to meet prerequisites. So basically it is usable twice per day as most Archers seem to have 8 Charisma. This is frustrating. Everytime I try to post advice for your question (in either of your two threads, which is against the CoC I might add) it gets bounced and my text is lost. Here is the Gist. 1. Wood Elf sucks because of Con penalty. You will get hit. 2. Cleric Archer is better (or Ranger/Cleric, but you can't get Craft Wand until 9th). Not pigeonholed. Divine Insight makes skill checks very easy (stealthing is really worthless because there will be a loud PC at the table and reconning ahead is dangerous if not foolhardy). Also a Cleric Archer can craft weapon enhancements (the main source of damage) and can cast the spell Undead Bane Weapon (Limited spell, but 2 of the three characters I play have gotten access). 3. Full-Round Attack is better than Skirmishing at APL 4+. By APL 6, wizards and sorcerers have the Haste spell. At APL 4, you might have a Wizard or Sorcerer playing down with the Haste spell. Rapid Shot + Haste is 2 extra attacks. So assuming Scout 5/Ranger 2 (for +2d6 Skirmish), let's compare to hit and damage. 1 attack at 1d8+2d6+3 (strength)+1 (PBS) vs 3 attacks at -2 to hit (Rapid Shot and Haste) for 1d8+3 (strength)+1 (PBS). You are more likely to deal any damage at all. 4. A lot of the scary enemies are un-critable. I saw a Rogue play the Core Special the Pits of Atza.. whatever. It was very funny and very sad (His level 5 Rogue died while my Level 2 Cleric kept the party from being eaten).
Swiftbrook 09-07-06, 03:53 PM	1. Wood Elf sucks because of Con penalty. You will get hit. I disagree. The Wood Elf gets a +2 Str and +2 Dex for a penalty of -2 Chr and -2 Int. My Wood Elf Ranger/Archer build was as follows: Str 6 points = 14 +2 race = 16 Dex 10 points = 15 + 2 race = 18 Con 4 points = 12 - 2 race = 10 Wis 4 points = 12 Int 4 points = 12 - 2 race = 10 Chr 0 points = 8 So ... Str +3 Dex +4 Con +0 Wis +1 Int +0 Chr -1 I put 2 points into constitution to cover the 2 point racial penalty. It would cost me an additional 6 points to bump my Dex from 16 to 18, or 4 points to bump my Str from 14 to 16. Either way I save points for my more important attributes. I'm not a frontliner. I don't need the extra Con boost. -Seiftbrook
JosephKell 09-07-06, 06:41 PM	I'm not a frontliner. I don't need the extra Con boost.Make sure it say that when the Golem drops you to -10.
Cynric 09-07-06, 06:53 PM	Regarding the likelyhood of a Haste spell. I am really only taking 4 levels of scout for the one bonus feat and the trapfinding capabilities. That is what this character is prinmarily, traps and survival. I think I am going wood Elf but will have con 12 after the racial penalty. Now all I have to decide is where I can take the character after level 11 as I have just discovered that Dread Commando is a 5 level prestige class. I am considering taking my third level of ranger at 12 and taking Occult Slayer after that, or just take fighter\ranger and cop the XP penalty.
JosephKell 09-07-06, 07:38 PM	Regarding the likelyhood of a Haste spell. I am really only taking 4 levels of scout for the one bonus feat and the trapfinding capabilities. That is what this character is prinmarily, traps and survival. I think I am going wood Elf but will have con 12 after the racial penalty.Now, I know you don't want to hear (see) this. But you could also do Scout 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2 and get one additional feat. It hurts your skills, but (shrug).Now all I have to decide is where I can take the character after level 11 as I have just discovered that Dread Commando is a 5 level prestige class. I am considering taking my third level of ranger at 12 and taking Occult Slayer after that, or just take fighter\ranger and cop the XP penalty.Why not go Occult Slayer right after Dread Commando? I am sure you can fight Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) and Improved Initiative in there somewhere (Improved Initiative is a Scout bonus feat). Personally I think Occult Slayer first is better because you get that 1d6 damage vs spellcasters and creatures with spell-like abilities earlier. Also I am pretty sure Dread Commando is another Fort/Ref save class, so you will have an anemic Will save. The Occult Slayer dip gives Will Save +2 and Magical Defense +1 (bonus vs spells and spell like abilities). Not to say Dread Commando is bad, I might have my archer go there after my 2nd level of Occult Slayer (I would have to check the feat requirements). The bonus to team initiative is very nice (especially since I already have a +9). For an Archer, quite possibly the best magic item you can get (after a bow, but before gloves of dex) is Bracers of Quick Strike (or Quick Striking, whatever it is called). It gives you one extra attack as if you were hasted (no bonus to hit, but you get that extra one). This is great if you are going way before the Haste-caster PC in the party. Remember though, that since you are doing a Scout 4/Ranger 2, you will never get Evasion (unless you go back to Scout later). But the items you need to buy (in order) are: 1. MW Mighty (+3) Composite Longbow (700 gp). 2. MW Buckler shield (165 gp. PHB says that you can use a Bow or Crossbow at no penalty, which either means no penalty to attack, or you get your buckler bonus even if you use you bow). 3. MW Chain Shirt (if you buy this and later get access to a Mithril Chain Shirt, consider keeping the MW Chain Shirt until you need the gold, you can loan it to an ignorant player that has a PC in heavier armor to sleep in at night). 4. +1 on Bow (2,000 gp) 5. Bracers of Quick Strike (1,200 gp) 6. +1 on Buckler (this gives more time to get Mithril access before you enchant your chain shirt) 7. +1 on Shirt. 8. Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp) 9. Cloak (Vest if you get access) of Resistance +1 (1,000 gp) 10. Amulet of Health +2 (4,000 gp, you might even want this before the gloves) 11. Ring of Protection +1 You may want to buy a few Wands of CLW along the way (my Archer has 3 right now). Don't forget the cost of Raise Dead (5,450 gp). Of course special ammunition types are very worth getting. One type of ammo to never buy is Burrowing Arrows. I bought a few and they were worthless. For the record, I never got the Mithril Chain Shirt (I put a +1 on my armor just before I got access. And it only matters when I have to make Swim checks since I get +4 to Hide and Move Silently from a metaorg). And I am trying to get the Amulet of Health +2 now (dying twice sucks).
Cynric 09-07-06, 08:44 PM	Thanks for the assist, I will have to look out for those bracers.
Iswald 09-09-06, 09:10 AM	Dread commando gives an intiative boost to you and all allies within thirty feet at a rate of almost one per level from memory. Add in the battle fortitude from Scout levels and that just about does it. The dread commando init bonus doesn't stack with the init bonus from scout (or streetfighter) levels.
Cynric 09-09-06, 11:09 PM	Well I am only getting one bunus initiative point from scout so that is not too much of a loss. :D