Armor questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Necrochaos
08-01-07, 08:09 AM My archer has a +7 armor modifier. I currently have a mithril chain shirt as my armor. Is there something better I should be looking for? I still have some mithril access. I'm looking through my books and I haven't found much that is better. Even if it is special armor I should be looking out for I would greatly appreciate it.
Shieldhart91
08-01-07, 08:36 AM Listing what class you are, and your proficiencies would help. Giving us your Dex mod would likewise work. Being that I know you're from my region, you had -better- know that Medium Armor is considered Light Armor, or I'll throw my Kobold PC at you the next Furyondy Interactive we have. Mark my words.
Pint_Glass_Crusader
08-01-07, 08:43 AM A Mithral Breastplate [Races of the Wild pg.168] is +5AC, +5 max Dex bonus, but it costs 4200gp and has an armour check penalty of -2.

If you have DEX boosting items that buff your DEX bonus from +3 to +5. This may be better... but you may not want your skills to suffer, or just not fancy the [extortionate] cost.
Necrochaos
08-01-07, 08:47 AM Rng 3/Mnk 2/ Ftr 2/ PT 1

I can wear any armor, but I would prefer it to be light or medium. The chain shirt is plus 6 dex, but I was wondering if there was some +4/+7 armor or something like that I'm missing. I don't have all the LG books, that's why I'm asking.

I just feel like I should be using my 24 dex if I can. My touch AC would be 18 (ring of deflection +1) if I could find armor that allows +7, but I don't want to lower my overall AC to do so.
Iswald
08-01-07, 09:33 AM Celestial Armor, +3 mithral chainmail, fly 1/day, max dex bonus +8. (DMG, 220) Gnome twist cloth is also good but, you'd need to burn a feat to use it properly. There are a couple armors in RW (leafweave padded and leather and thistledown padded) that allow a max dex modifier of +7 or more. Finding them is hard in some regions.
Necrochaos
08-01-07, 09:45 AM Yes celestial armor...I overlooked it...Thank you for finding that!!!!!
TWG_Prometheus
08-01-07, 12:03 PM A Mithral Breastplate [Races of the Wild pg.168] is +5AC, +5 max Dex bonus, but it costs 4200gp and has an armour check penalty of -2.

If you have DEX boosting items that buff your DEX bonus from +3 to +5. This may be better... but you may not want your skills to suffer, or just not fancy the [extortionate] cost.

The Armor Check Penalty on a Mithral Breastplate is -1, not -2. (Breastplate starts at -4, then the penalty is reduced by 3 as normal for mithral.) Elven Chain is the mithral armor with a -2 ACP.

Given that the character is an archer, they're likely pushing their Dexterity, and will settle out above a +5 Dexterity modifier. If that's the case, a Mithral Chain Shirt is the best route to go. Mithral Breastplates are for the characters that don't pump Dexterity so much.

As for the cost...if a Mithral Breastplate is the type of armor that's best for a particular character, I wouldn't worry about the measly 4200 gold price. Once you get past the early +2 AC modifier stage, it's only 3100 more than a Mithral Chain Shirt for a +1 armor bonus, and that's really cheap compared to the 5000 for going from a +2 armor enhancement to a +3 armor enhancement.
Necrochaos
08-01-07, 12:09 PM I think I'll stick with the Mithril Chain for now. My dex started at 18, two bumps for level 4 and 8 and +4 gloves.

I have ranks in tumble, so I try not to have an AC penalty. It was cheaper than a breatplate, keeps my touch attack higher and will be cheaper if I bump it to +2 instead of +1
TWG_Prometheus
08-01-07, 12:14 PM I think I'll stick with the Mithril Chain for now. My dex started at 18, two bumps for level 4 and 8 and +4 gloves.

I have ranks in tumble, so I try not to have an AC penalty. It was cheaper than a breatplate, keeps my touch attack higher and will be cheaper if I bump it to +2 instead of +1

With that much Dexterity, a Mithril Chain Shirt is your best buy unless you somehow manage to get something like...a +10 Dexterity modifier. Theoretically, Celestial Chainmail might be better, but you can't upgrade that, so make sure it's what you really want.
Genghis Cohen
08-01-07, 07:48 PM I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments.

From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.)

If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher.
clannagh
08-01-07, 07:59 PM I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments.

From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.)

If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher.

I do not think he has uncanny dodge so thistledown would kinda suck if he were flatfooted.
Genghis Cohen
08-01-07, 08:02 PM I do not think he has uncanny dodge so thistledown would kinda suck if he were flatfooted.His flatfooted would be 3 lower with thistledown, but his touch would be 3 higher with a +9 dex mofifier. I'd rather have the higher touch AC.
Timlagor
08-02-07, 04:18 AM ..especially with at least +9 to Initiative and probably decent sense skills ..Dex +9 is pretty darn tricky though; Wildrunner is the only economical way to do it really.
Drezden
08-02-07, 08:42 AM Celestial Armor is pretty awesome. It is worth the loss of enhancements. The biggest obstacle is getting access. But, in my opinion, +16 from armor and dex and the ability to fly once a day is worth it.

BTW - another option is just to go with Bracers of Armor.

Daren

I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments.

From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.)

If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher.
Mommy was an Orc
08-02-07, 10:23 AM BTW - another option is just to go with Bracers of Armor.

Especially with the levels in Monk...
Necrochaos
08-02-07, 10:30 AM A reminder that it's only 2 levels in monk, so being unarmored won't do much. I don't intend on being close enough to anyone to worry about using the flurry.

But it is an interesting option to use the bracers, just more expensive than my current armor.
UMiskatonic
08-02-07, 11:08 AM Mage armor would also work, and there's the nimbleness upgrade in MIC, which allows you to get more dex out of an existing suit of armor.

It's out there, I've got access.
CrystalBlue
08-02-07, 12:58 PM Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion.

Wood Elf
Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1
Dex: 18 (without bumps)

Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31.

Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...)

Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest.
TWG_Prometheus
08-02-07, 04:50 PM Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion.

Wood Elf
Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1
Dex: 18 (without bumps)

Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31.

Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...)

Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest.

If you go further into Champion of Corellon than level 2, you can get a better Dexterity modifier out of your Mithral Breastplate than you can out of a Mithral Chain Shirt. Also, swapping out now would be a mistake if you could just do it later, since you don't have a +6 Dexterity modifier yet.

I'm mildly curious about where that last +4 AC came from. I'm getting 10 base + 6 armor + 4 dexterity + 2 fighting defensively + 5 combat expertise + 4 ??
CrystalBlue
08-02-07, 09:16 PM Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more.
clannagh
08-02-07, 09:32 PM Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more.

5 ranks in tumble would take the fighting defensive bonus up to +3.
CrystalBlue
08-03-07, 08:13 AM Did not know that. O.O I guess I have more AC now. Thanks. :D
TWG_Prometheus
08-03-07, 11:21 AM Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more.

The +1 animated hide shield explains my question. Just a nitpick...you can't use Total Defense at the same time you use Combat Expertise, but you're not actually trying to do so. +2 AC from Fighting Defensively (or +3 if you have 5 ranks in Tumble) works as far as I can figure out though.
boolean
08-06-07, 07:34 AM Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more.

Ick. IMO, that's a really poor choice for that character.

1. Hide shields have a max. Dex. bonus of +4. That's not a problem at the moment, but you'll be increasing your dexterity in the future, right?

2. Weapon Finesse: "If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls." So, that's a -2 to your attacks, on top of the -1 from using a hide shield.

And no, the animated property doesn't eliminate any of these penalties or restrictions.
CrystalBlue
08-06-07, 08:33 AM Listen to me sing it.

AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED

Do you wield an animated shield? No. Last time I checked, it floated. And floated very well. As as far as I can tell, that means I could have a tower shield for all you care and it would STILL not penalty me. Because I'm not carrying it...which is where all those nasty penalties come from.

So...yeah...I'm getting an animated hide shield. :P
Mommy was an Orc
08-06-07, 09:31 AM Listen to me sing it.

AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED

Do you wield an animated shield? No. Last time I checked, it floated. And floated very well. As as far as I can tell, that means I could have a tower shield for all you care and it would STILL not penalty me. Because I'm not carrying it...which is where all those nasty penalties come from.

What might seem like it should be obvious doesn't mean that's how it works.

From the Animated property in DMG:
"A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency."
_metz_
08-06-07, 09:41 AM Listen to me sing it.

AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED
AN-I-MA-TED

Unfortunately Singing doesn't make the rules go away. As hard as you try.
CrystalBlue
08-06-07, 01:13 PM That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip. Which, just so you all know, is the dumbest idea in existance. "Yay! I'm so going to add animated to this shield so it'll float where I want it to, and then completely negate that by equipping it because, as the rules of the macro-cosom state, one must still wear a shield and take it's penalties even though it's FLOATING IN MID-FLIP'N-AIR!!!" Again, another example of how stupid this game really is when you get down to it. -_-;;
Mommy was an Orc
08-06-07, 01:19 PM That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip.

Because you can dual-wield or use a two-handed weapon and get a shield bonus. Especially as most people able to afford one are drifting into Magic Vestment territory.
CrystalBlue
08-06-07, 01:33 PM Ah, but now you've just condradicted yourself. I get ALL the penalties of having a shield on as if I was really equipping it. That means no dex bonus, no lower skill checks, and definately no two weapons...because that's a straight out rule. You CAN NOT have two weapons when fighting with a shield, unless that thing is a buckler. Period. That is a penalty and it falls in with the ruling you just gave me. I can't hold two weapons and 'use' a shield.

And...let's take this back to my character thread...I shouldn't have tried discussing all this on multiple threads.
Zarron
08-06-07, 01:45 PM Ah, but now you've just condradicted yourself. I get ALL the penalties of having a shield on as if I was really equipping it. That means no dex bonus, no lower skill checks, and definately no two weapons...because that's a straight out rule. You CAN NOT have two weapons when fighting with a shield, unless that thing is a buckler. Period. That is a penalty and it falls in with the ruling you just gave me. I can't hold two weapons and 'use' a shield.

And...let's take this back to my character thread...I shouldn't have tried discussing all this on multiple threads.

From the SRD:

Upon command, an animated shield floats within 2 feet of the wielder, protecting her as if she were using it herself but freeing up both her hands. Only one shield can protect a character at a time. A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency.

A "penalty" isn't defined as "something inconvenient." It is strictly numbers. So, yes, you can dual wield or carry a great sword with an animated shield because it "free[s] up both [your] hands."
catsclaw
08-06-07, 02:17 PM A "penalty" isn't defined as "something inconvenient." It is strictly numbers. So, yes, you can dual wield or carry a great sword with an animated shield because it "free[s] up both [your] hands."Not to mention allowing all those shield-and-mace clerics to actually cast spells in combat, without the "somatic weaponry" feat.
KarmaInferno
08-06-07, 02:41 PM There is only one benefit to having an animated shield.

You free up a hand to use elsewhere, like to wield a 2-handed weapon or the like.

That is all.

Everything else is treated exactly as if you were wielding the shield normally.

-karma
Banor
08-06-07, 07:58 PM Using a shield doesnt prevent you from using a 2hander or dual wield, having your offhand slot does. Animated shield only free your hand slot
clannagh
08-06-07, 08:12 PM Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion.

Wood Elf
Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1
Dex: 18 (without bumps)

Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31.

Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...)

Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest.

As a Pious Templar of Corellon there is a Corellon Relic in MIC called Millennial Mail that would be awesome if you ever got access. Basically +8 Dex mithral chain + 1 that gives you fast healing 3, all day long, providing you are a True Believer of Corellon. All for a measly 8k gold.

But getting access may be ummm .... tricky .
_metz_
08-06-07, 10:04 PM That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip. Which, just so you all know, is the dumbest idea in existance. "Yay! I'm so going to add animated to this shield so it'll float where I want it to, and then completely negate that by equipping it because, as the rules of the macro-cosom state, one must still wear a shield and take it's penalties even though it's FLOATING IN MID-FLIP'N-AIR!!!" Again, another example of how stupid this game really is when you get down to it. -_-;;

It still floats around and hampers your vision etc.

And yes, it is not very good for Two Weapon fighters, everyone KNOWS this and people have whinged about it for ages. It further encourages low dex two handed Power Attackers in Full Plate.

Deal with it, it's what happens. Its a flaw in the mechanic, but hey, we have al recognised it. I know with my Cleric and Fighter they will be using animated HEAVY Shields, so I don't take the penalty to my hit roll, and I will be wearing full plate so who cares about the dex penalty?
clannagh
08-07-07, 02:46 AM Deal with it, it's what happens. Its a flaw in the mechanic, but hey, we have al recognised it. I know with my Cleric and Fighter they will be using animated HEAVY Shields, so I don't take the penalty to my hit roll, and I will be wearing full plate so who cares about the dex penalty?

Optimal for most fighter types is an animated mithral heavy shield which really only gives a penalty to arcane casting.

The idea of an animated hide shield is interesting because of the total cover on one facing ability ( for a nominal -1 to hit) however I would be wary of table variation.
Sir_Wulf
08-09-07, 06:30 PM An animated shield frees up your arm, blocking and obstructing attacks exactly as it would if your arm were moving it. Thus you still suffer the penalties of wielding it, but your arm is free for archery or other purposes.

It was presumably written that way to limit the power of animated tower shields and other cumbersome shields, which have many penalties besides tying up an arm. Otherwise, why would anyone animate anything less?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 08-01-07, 08:09 AM	My archer has a +7 armor modifier. I currently have a mithril chain shirt as my armor. Is there something better I should be looking for? I still have some mithril access. I'm looking through my books and I haven't found much that is better. Even if it is special armor I should be looking out for I would greatly appreciate it.
Shieldhart91 08-01-07, 08:36 AM	Listing what class you are, and your proficiencies would help. Giving us your Dex mod would likewise work. Being that I know you're from my region, you had -better- know that Medium Armor is considered Light Armor, or I'll throw my Kobold PC at you the next Furyondy Interactive we have. Mark my words.
Pint_Glass_Crusader 08-01-07, 08:43 AM	A Mithral Breastplate [Races of the Wild pg.168] is +5AC, +5 max Dex bonus, but it costs 4200gp and has an armour check penalty of -2. If you have DEX boosting items that buff your DEX bonus from +3 to +5. This may be better... but you may not want your skills to suffer, or just not fancy the [extortionate] cost.
Necrochaos 08-01-07, 08:47 AM	Rng 3/Mnk 2/ Ftr 2/ PT 1 I can wear any armor, but I would prefer it to be light or medium. The chain shirt is plus 6 dex, but I was wondering if there was some +4/+7 armor or something like that I'm missing. I don't have all the LG books, that's why I'm asking. I just feel like I should be using my 24 dex if I can. My touch AC would be 18 (ring of deflection +1) if I could find armor that allows +7, but I don't want to lower my overall AC to do so.
Iswald 08-01-07, 09:33 AM	Celestial Armor, +3 mithral chainmail, fly 1/day, max dex bonus +8. (DMG, 220) Gnome twist cloth is also good but, you'd need to burn a feat to use it properly. There are a couple armors in RW (leafweave padded and leather and thistledown padded) that allow a max dex modifier of +7 or more. Finding them is hard in some regions.
Necrochaos 08-01-07, 09:45 AM	Yes celestial armor...I overlooked it...Thank you for finding that!!!!!
TWG_Prometheus 08-01-07, 12:03 PM	A Mithral Breastplate [Races of the Wild pg.168] is +5AC, +5 max Dex bonus, but it costs 4200gp and has an armour check penalty of -2. If you have DEX boosting items that buff your DEX bonus from +3 to +5. This may be better... but you may not want your skills to suffer, or just not fancy the [extortionate] cost. The Armor Check Penalty on a Mithral Breastplate is -1, not -2. (Breastplate starts at -4, then the penalty is reduced by 3 as normal for mithral.) Elven Chain is the mithral armor with a -2 ACP. Given that the character is an archer, they're likely pushing their Dexterity, and will settle out above a +5 Dexterity modifier. If that's the case, a Mithral Chain Shirt is the best route to go. Mithral Breastplates are for the characters that don't pump Dexterity so much. As for the cost...if a Mithral Breastplate is the type of armor that's best for a particular character, I wouldn't worry about the measly 4200 gold price. Once you get past the early +2 AC modifier stage, it's only 3100 more than a Mithral Chain Shirt for a +1 armor bonus, and that's really cheap compared to the 5000 for going from a +2 armor enhancement to a +3 armor enhancement.
Necrochaos 08-01-07, 12:09 PM	I think I'll stick with the Mithril Chain for now. My dex started at 18, two bumps for level 4 and 8 and +4 gloves. I have ranks in tumble, so I try not to have an AC penalty. It was cheaper than a breatplate, keeps my touch attack higher and will be cheaper if I bump it to +2 instead of +1
TWG_Prometheus 08-01-07, 12:14 PM	I think I'll stick with the Mithril Chain for now. My dex started at 18, two bumps for level 4 and 8 and +4 gloves. I have ranks in tumble, so I try not to have an AC penalty. It was cheaper than a breatplate, keeps my touch attack higher and will be cheaper if I bump it to +2 instead of +1 With that much Dexterity, a Mithril Chain Shirt is your best buy unless you somehow manage to get something like...a +10 Dexterity modifier. Theoretically, Celestial Chainmail might be better, but you can't upgrade that, so make sure it's what you really want.
Genghis Cohen 08-01-07, 07:48 PM	I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments. From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.) If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher.
clannagh 08-01-07, 07:59 PM	I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments. From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.) If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher. I do not think he has uncanny dodge so thistledown would kinda suck if he were flatfooted.
Genghis Cohen 08-01-07, 08:02 PM	I do not think he has uncanny dodge so thistledown would kinda suck if he were flatfooted.His flatfooted would be 3 lower with thistledown, but his touch would be 3 higher with a +9 dex mofifier. I'd rather have the higher touch AC.
Timlagor 08-02-07, 04:18 AM	..especially with at least +9 to Initiative and probably decent sense skills ..Dex +9 is pretty darn tricky though; Wildrunner is the only economical way to do it really.
Drezden 08-02-07, 08:42 AM	Celestial Armor is pretty awesome. It is worth the loss of enhancements. The biggest obstacle is getting access. But, in my opinion, +16 from armor and dex and the ability to fly once a day is worth it. BTW - another option is just to go with Bracers of Armor. Daren I don't like Celestial Chainmail because you can't add additional enchantments. From my view, that leaves a mithral chainshirt (+4 armor, +6 dex) or thistledown padded (+1 armor, +10 dex.) If you can get your dex up to a +9 bonus, thistledown padded would equal the AC of a mithral chainshirt, while offering a touch AC that's higher.
Mommy was an Orc 08-02-07, 10:23 AM	BTW - another option is just to go with Bracers of Armor. Especially with the levels in Monk...
Necrochaos 08-02-07, 10:30 AM	A reminder that it's only 2 levels in monk, so being unarmored won't do much. I don't intend on being close enough to anyone to worry about using the flurry. But it is an interesting option to use the bracers, just more expensive than my current armor.
UMiskatonic 08-02-07, 11:08 AM	Mage armor would also work, and there's the nimbleness upgrade in MIC, which allows you to get more dex out of an existing suit of armor. It's out there, I've got access.
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 12:58 PM	Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion. Wood Elf Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1 Dex: 18 (without bumps) Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31. Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...) Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest.
TWG_Prometheus 08-02-07, 04:50 PM	Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion. Wood Elf Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1 Dex: 18 (without bumps) Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31. Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...) Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest. If you go further into Champion of Corellon than level 2, you can get a better Dexterity modifier out of your Mithral Breastplate than you can out of a Mithral Chain Shirt. Also, swapping out now would be a mistake if you could just do it later, since you don't have a +6 Dexterity modifier yet. I'm mildly curious about where that last +4 AC came from. I'm getting 10 base + 6 armor + 4 dexterity + 2 fighting defensively + 5 combat expertise + 4 ??
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 09:16 PM	Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more.
clannagh 08-02-07, 09:32 PM	Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more. 5 ranks in tumble would take the fighting defensive bonus up to +3.
CrystalBlue 08-03-07, 08:13 AM	Did not know that. O.O I guess I have more AC now. Thanks. :D
TWG_Prometheus 08-03-07, 11:21 AM	Uhmmm...hmmm...OH! That's wrong then. I thought I got +4 for fighting defensive. That should be total defense. :P Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more. The +1 animated hide shield explains my question. Just a nitpick...you can't use Total Defense at the same time you use Combat Expertise, but you're not actually trying to do so. +2 AC from Fighting Defensively (or +3 if you have 5 ranks in Tumble) works as far as I can figure out though.
boolean 08-06-07, 07:34 AM	Also, I have a +1 animated hide shield, so that's a bit more. Ick. IMO, that's a really poor choice for that character. 1. Hide shields have a max. Dex. bonus of +4. That's not a problem at the moment, but you'll be increasing your dexterity in the future, right? 2. Weapon Finesse: "If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls." So, that's a -2 to your attacks, on top of the -1 from using a hide shield. And no, the animated property doesn't eliminate any of these penalties or restrictions.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 08:33 AM	Listen to me sing it. AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED Do you wield an animated shield? No. Last time I checked, it floated. And floated very well. As as far as I can tell, that means I could have a tower shield for all you care and it would STILL not penalty me. Because I'm not carrying it...which is where all those nasty penalties come from. So...yeah...I'm getting an animated hide shield. :P
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-07, 09:31 AM	Listen to me sing it. AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED Do you wield an animated shield? No. Last time I checked, it floated. And floated very well. As as far as I can tell, that means I could have a tower shield for all you care and it would STILL not penalty me. Because I'm not carrying it...which is where all those nasty penalties come from. What might seem like it should be obvious doesn't mean that's how it works. From the Animated property in DMG: "A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency."
_metz_ 08-06-07, 09:41 AM	Listen to me sing it. AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED AN-I-MA-TED Unfortunately Singing doesn't make the rules go away. As hard as you try.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 01:13 PM	That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip. Which, just so you all know, is the dumbest idea in existance. "Yay! I'm so going to add animated to this shield so it'll float where I want it to, and then completely negate that by equipping it because, as the rules of the macro-cosom state, one must still wear a shield and take it's penalties even though it's FLOATING IN MID-FLIP'N-AIR!!!" Again, another example of how stupid this game really is when you get down to it. -_-;;
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-07, 01:19 PM	That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip. Because you can dual-wield or use a two-handed weapon and get a shield bonus. Especially as most people able to afford one are drifting into Magic Vestment territory.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 01:33 PM	Ah, but now you've just condradicted yourself. I get ALL the penalties of having a shield on as if I was really equipping it. That means no dex bonus, no lower skill checks, and definately no two weapons...because that's a straight out rule. You CAN NOT have two weapons when fighting with a shield, unless that thing is a buckler. Period. That is a penalty and it falls in with the ruling you just gave me. I can't hold two weapons and 'use' a shield. And...let's take this back to my character thread...I shouldn't have tried discussing all this on multiple threads.
Zarron 08-06-07, 01:45 PM	Ah, but now you've just condradicted yourself. I get ALL the penalties of having a shield on as if I was really equipping it. That means no dex bonus, no lower skill checks, and definately no two weapons...because that's a straight out rule. You CAN NOT have two weapons when fighting with a shield, unless that thing is a buckler. Period. That is a penalty and it falls in with the ruling you just gave me. I can't hold two weapons and 'use' a shield. And...let's take this back to my character thread...I shouldn't have tried discussing all this on multiple threads. From the SRD: Upon command, an animated shield floats within 2 feet of the wielder, protecting her as if she were using it herself but freeing up both her hands. Only one shield can protect a character at a time. A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency. A "penalty" isn't defined as "something inconvenient." It is strictly numbers. So, yes, you can dual wield or carry a great sword with an animated shield because it "free[s] up both [your] hands."
catsclaw 08-06-07, 02:17 PM	A "penalty" isn't defined as "something inconvenient." It is strictly numbers. So, yes, you can dual wield or carry a great sword with an animated shield because it "free[s] up both [your] hands."Not to mention allowing all those shield-and-mace clerics to actually cast spells in combat, without the "somatic weaponry" feat.
KarmaInferno 08-06-07, 02:41 PM	There is only one benefit to having an animated shield. You free up a hand to use elsewhere, like to wield a 2-handed weapon or the like. That is all. Everything else is treated exactly as if you were wielding the shield normally. -karma
Banor 08-06-07, 07:58 PM	Using a shield doesnt prevent you from using a 2hander or dual wield, having your offhand slot does. Animated shield only free your hand slot
clannagh 08-06-07, 08:12 PM	Alright...asking this while this person is...I guess I'll ask a similar question. My build is in the TWP thread I started in characters, so look it up if there's much confusion. Wood Elf Rng 2 / Fgt 2 / Swa 1 / Piost Temp 1 Dex: 18 (without bumps) Currently, I have a +1 Mithral Breastplate. I also have 2 other access to mithral on this character...so I'm not worrying about if I made the wrong choice. The only question is...did I make a wrong choice with this armor? The way my character works, I have two modes. When I'm on, I explode with my two weapon fighting with around 4 attacks. When I'm off, I combat expertise for full and fight defensively, getting me up to around 10+6+4+2+5+4 = 31. Question is, later on, I'm taking Champion of CL to add my dex to damage. Should I just sell the breastplate I have now and invest in a mithral chain shirt or keep the breastplate I have and go with it? (I have half-price mithral access right now, so...) Consensus here seems to be that I reinvest. As a Pious Templar of Corellon there is a Corellon Relic in MIC called Millennial Mail that would be awesome if you ever got access. Basically +8 Dex mithral chain + 1 that gives you fast healing 3, all day long, providing you are a True Believer of Corellon. All for a measly 8k gold. But getting access may be ummm .... tricky .
_metz_ 08-06-07, 10:04 PM	That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen! O.O How in the world do they then justify animated as a +2 enhancement bonus to a shield? If it does NOTHING for you mechanically...that's a piece of crap that I won't believe until someone tells me the actual benefit of having a floating shield that you still have to equip. Which, just so you all know, is the dumbest idea in existance. "Yay! I'm so going to add animated to this shield so it'll float where I want it to, and then completely negate that by equipping it because, as the rules of the macro-cosom state, one must still wear a shield and take it's penalties even though it's FLOATING IN MID-FLIP'N-AIR!!!" Again, another example of how stupid this game really is when you get down to it. -_-;; It still floats around and hampers your vision etc. And yes, it is not very good for Two Weapon fighters, everyone KNOWS this and people have whinged about it for ages. It further encourages low dex two handed Power Attackers in Full Plate. Deal with it, it's what happens. Its a flaw in the mechanic, but hey, we have al recognised it. I know with my Cleric and Fighter they will be using animated HEAVY Shields, so I don't take the penalty to my hit roll, and I will be wearing full plate so who cares about the dex penalty?
clannagh 08-07-07, 02:46 AM	Deal with it, it's what happens. Its a flaw in the mechanic, but hey, we have al recognised it. I know with my Cleric and Fighter they will be using animated HEAVY Shields, so I don't take the penalty to my hit roll, and I will be wearing full plate so who cares about the dex penalty? Optimal for most fighter types is an animated mithral heavy shield which really only gives a penalty to arcane casting. The idea of an animated hide shield is interesting because of the total cover on one facing ability ( for a nominal -1 to hit) however I would be wary of table variation.
Sir_Wulf 08-09-07, 06:30 PM	An animated shield frees up your arm, blocking and obstructing attacks exactly as it would if your arm were moving it. Thus you still suffer the penalties of wielding it, but your arm is free for archery or other purposes. It was presumably written that way to limit the power of animated tower shields and other cumbersome shields, which have many penalties besides tying up an arm. Otherwise, why would anyone animate anything less?