Bookworm goes adventuring... (HELP) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bookworm goes adventuring... (HELP) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
euby
12-18-05, 12:14 PM :help: I'm wanting to create a character for the new year. I have the idea for the background story, but not quite sure how best to translate it into an LG character.

Here's the story...

The Character works in the library of a large city. Char has read nearly all of the books and has gained much Knowledge (across many subjects) and can speak numerous languages :teach: . Through the years, Char has advanced quickly through the ranks of the librarians. Due to Char's still relatively young age (and the fact that Char had risen as high as possible within the ranks), Char was given a special role; the care-taker/guardian of a special tome. This tome was recently stolen from the library :doh: . As the care-taker/guardian of the tome, Char is responsible for its safe return. Char travels the world of Greyhawk adventuring in search of the tome.

Character parameters... :plotting:
Abilities - INT will need to be high
Race/Subrace - Open to anything
Class - Open to multi-classing (leaning away from spellcasters)

Any ideas? :confused:
kenobi65
12-18-05, 12:31 PM Unfortunately, any "adventuring" class is not going to be a good reflection of this character idea you have. Were it an option in LG, I'd suggest using the Expert NPC class from the DMG, but you can't play that class as a PC in LG.

"Leaning away from spellcasters" also probably doesn't help, as this PC would need some skills that would make you useful in combat, and it sure doesn't sound like this guy would have any martial abilities to speak of. (Many LG modules are fairly combat-heavy, and a bookish PC who can't contribute in combat may be a definite liability.)

He's probably loaded up on skills, however. You might be able to get at some of that via Rogue, but you'll also wind up with a bunch of rogue abilities that, again, aren't part of what you're picturing.

Bard might be your best bet, with Bardic Knowledge representing what he's read in his studies. You'd probably want to focus his Perform skills on oratory, rather than music or dance.

And, finally, recognize that his ultimate quest (finding and returning this stolen tome to the library) is something that he'll never succeed in. If this were a home campaign, where the DM could incorporate that plot thread in the campaign, it'd be different, but in LG, there simply won't ever be the potential for that personalized "quest."
Simpi
12-18-05, 05:59 PM :help: I'm wanting to create a character for the new year. I have the idea for the background story, but not quite sure how best to translate it into an LG character.

Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain.

What is your home region if I may ask?

S.H, the guy from Naerie
kenobi65
12-18-05, 08:09 PM a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain.

There's a nice idea. There are several Greyhawk deities that might serve well, depending on how your character views the collection and dissemination of knowledge, including Boccob, Delleb, and Lydia, among others.
SteveMND
12-18-05, 09:08 PM "And, finally, recognize that his ultimate quest (finding and returning this stolen tome to the library) is something that he'll never succeed in."

Not so. This is exactly the sort of role-playing hook that Special Missions were designed for. Mind you, it would depend on the player getting triad approval, finding somebody to write it, etc. but it's hardly an impossibility.

That said, such a character might be a little tricky to deal with in LG. Like it or not, the 'average' LG mod tends to emphasize combat over roleplay (there are of course exceptions), and a "bookwormish" character sounds a little lacking in that department. Even so, the idea could still be workable, especially if you have a local gaming group that you would often game with; in such tight-knit groups PCs can and often do evolve to help fill any niches left unfilled. Another helpful factor would be if you are lucky enough to be in one of those regions where the role-playing aspect is emphasized as much as the combat in regional mods.
JohnduBois
12-18-05, 09:12 PM Here's my advice:

Take at least a couple levels of Bard so that you can learn a ton of languages through the Speak Language skill.

Honestly, the best bookish characters (Bards, Wizards, Clerics of Boccob) are spellcasters. You can do stuff like pick up one bard level and a ton of fighter levels and go Warchanter, or a mix of Wizard and Fighter levels and go Bladesigner, or some hybrid like that. Loremaster would be a good PrClass to go toward, but that's heavy spellcasting as well...
kenobi65
12-18-05, 09:29 PM Not so. This is exactly the sort of role-playing hook that Special Missions were designed for. Mind you, it would depend on the player getting triad approval, finding somebody to write it, etc. but it's hardly an impossibility.

Good point; thanks for the correction, Steve.
Sieylianna
12-18-05, 09:31 PM Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain.

Another option would be to take the well read feat to access all knowledge skills as class skills and play a rogue or scout for the maximum skill points per level.

However, the most coherent character concept would probably be a bard. But make certain that you have something to contribute in a fight or you may have problems finding a party at conventions.

Ed
euby
12-19-05, 12:38 AM Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain.

What is your home region if I may ask?

S.H, the guy from Naerie

I'm in the Yeomanry.
solbergb
12-19-05, 02:25 AM You know, bookworms don't have to be wusses.

My wife plays a Kn Domain "Field Librarian" Pholtan cleric. She feels that forbidden books should be secured by her, (read) and then given into the care of the Library of Antigua. So far her penchant for reading all the books hasn't yet got her cursed but she's had a couple close calls.

She's also a fairly optomized sacred exorcist. Being a seeker of knowledge that isn't safe for civilians is just one facet of her character.

But seriously. Indiana Jones was "just an archaeologist". No reason a librarian can't be "two-fisted". Rogue/wizard or rogue with a splash of bard (whatever gets all kn skills on your list) might be good, with sneak attack being defined as having read up on the anatomy of damn near everything, so you know just precisely where to strike to cause the most pain. With a bit more of an edge, that guy in the Princess Bride who studied "pain" could also be an adventurer, out doing "field research".

(after dishing out a sneak attack) "So be honest...this is being recorded for posterity. How do you feel right at this moment?"
Sceadeau
12-19-05, 03:40 PM Bard. Definately a bard. Bardic Knowledge would be great for you (call it by a different name if you'd like..."Did I read that?" or "Bookworm Knowledge" or "Mental Recollection").

A high int + the speak language skill (only bards have it as a class skill) will give you nearly all
languages by level 1 (+4 int bonus is 4 languages, and 4 more from the speak language skill).
If you were a high elf, you could have a 20 int, which increases your max languages known at level 1 to be 11 (elf, common, 5 bonus, 4 from ranks).

I would put at least 1 rank in each knowledge skill as well.

For the perform skill, you'd probably take perform(recite from memory), making "inspire courage" into "impart knowledge of weaknesses" where you basically are telling your comrades the best way to fight whatever it is they're facing (which gives the +1 to hit/damage as always, but here it's because you are providing insight into how to defeat the enemy that they wouldn't have without you).

In this way, you have a know-it-all who shows off his knowledge non-stop, without being in any way a hinderance to the party.

I would also recommend perhaps Use Magic Device ("hey! I read about to use this is the Deregard's Tome of Inconsequential but Ultimately Usefull Magic Items").

Decipher Script would also make sense for this character.
JohnduBois
12-19-05, 03:52 PM Scouts also have Speak Language as a class skill.

Bards don't need to put two ranks into any knowledge skill... they and wizards have all knowledge skills as class skills...
haferka
12-19-05, 06:07 PM Wait untill the next revision of the LGCS.

Heroes of Horror material IS being added in...

.. so there is the off chance that "Archivist" will be allowed.. but I doubt it...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

4 skill points per lvl. (All Knowledge as class skills)

The ability to "learn" ANY divine spell. Full caster progression (base class). but you lean them as a wizard learns spells. You do NOT gain domains, or turn undead, but you gain the ability to grant competency bonuses to the party versus creatures, (apropriate knowledge check) x/day.

On the off chance that the "Spell" domain from the new spell compendium is added ... you could learn "Anyspell" which grants you the ability to cast arcane spells.

That said...

Even if the class was somehow allowed in LG.. I "SERIOUSLY" doubt that the "spell" domain would be, since it was originally from Forgotten Realms, and it eliminates the need for an arcane caster...
flametounge
12-19-05, 09:42 PM Well, although you'd after to be a spellcaster first, becoming a Loremaster seems the most accurate portrayal of your character.
Sieylianna
12-19-05, 10:27 PM Wait untill the next revision of the LGCS.

Heroes of Horror material IS being added in...

.. so there is the off chance that "Archivist" will be allowed.. but I doubt it...

I think it's safe to say that it won't be. Chris said any new material would be Limited access and we've never seen a base class with limited access. Look at all the complaining the LG staff has to listen to because warmages are limited to PHB spells until 3rd level.

Ed
jhorred
12-19-05, 10:50 PM I made a character similiar to your idea for a different campaign. I built him as a cleric. Was a clositered/bookish type though clerics don't make for the best knowledge skill types.
euby
12-23-05, 03:46 AM Thanks, Sceadeau! :tiphat: That's exactly the information that I was looking for. I had kind of planned on the character standing back from the fight and giving ranged support.

One further question, as a bard, if I were to get mithral armor of some kind, would there be any arcane spell failure associated?

Bard. Definately a bard. Bardic Knowledge would be great for you (call it by a different name if you'd like..."Did I read that?" or "Bookworm Knowledge" or "Mental Recollection").

A high int + the speak language skill (only bards have it as a class skill) will give you nearly all
languages by level 1 (+4 int bonus is 4 languages, and 4 more from the speak language skill).
If you were a high elf, you could have a 20 int, which increases your max languages known at level 1 to be 11 (elf, common, 5 bonus, 4 from ranks).

I would put at least 1 rank in each knowledge skill as well.

For the perform skill, you'd probably take perform(recite from memory), making "inspire courage" into "impart knowledge of weaknesses" where you basically are telling your comrades the best way to fight whatever it is they're facing (which gives the +1 to hit/damage as always, but here it's because you are providing insight into how to defeat the enemy that they wouldn't have without you).

In this way, you have a know-it-all who shows off his knowledge non-stop, without being in any way a hinderance to the party.

I would also recommend perhaps Use Magic Device ("hey! I read about to use this is the Deregard's Tome of Inconsequential but Ultimately Usefull Magic Items").

Decipher Script would also make sense for this character.
Sieylianna
12-23-05, 09:07 AM Thanks, Sceadeau! :tiphat: That's exactly the information that I was looking for. I had kind of planned on the character standing back from the fight and giving ranged support.

One further question, as a bard, if I were to get mithral armor of some kind, would there be any arcane spell failure associated?

Mithral chain shirt, no, because it's light armor. Any other mithral armor has a chance of ASF (-10% from base armor).

Ed
JohnduBois
12-23-05, 09:12 AM If you were a bard, mithral versions of any armor that is normally classified as light or medium armor would not provide any arcane spell failure.
flametounge
12-23-05, 01:04 PM I'm pretty sure High Elves give a bonus to DEX, not INT. So you could really be whatever.
Sceadeau
12-24-05, 04:18 PM There is a race of elf that gives +int, I guess it's Grey Elf and not High Elf. But I always suffer from a noun deficiency.
curseofgnome
12-31-05, 01:04 AM I have also been working on designing a "bookworm" character, with tons of Knowledge skills. He'll be a Gnome Bard (with 1 level of Marshal), with the Gnomelore and Trivial Gnowledge feats. The Marshal level (Marshals also have all knowledge skills as class skills) gets me the Motivate Intelligence arua, adding my charisma modifier to all intelligence-based checks for me & my allies. I don't know how the concept will work out, but it has a pretty good Diplomacy modifier, and bardic music from ranks in perform (bookreading).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
euby 12-18-05, 12:14 PM	:help: I'm wanting to create a character for the new year. I have the idea for the background story, but not quite sure how best to translate it into an LG character. Here's the story... The Character works in the library of a large city. Char has read nearly all of the books and has gained much Knowledge (across many subjects) and can speak numerous languages :teach: . Through the years, Char has advanced quickly through the ranks of the librarians. Due to Char's still relatively young age (and the fact that Char had risen as high as possible within the ranks), Char was given a special role; the care-taker/guardian of a special tome. This tome was recently stolen from the library :doh: . As the care-taker/guardian of the tome, Char is responsible for its safe return. Char travels the world of Greyhawk adventuring in search of the tome. Character parameters... :plotting: Abilities - INT will need to be high Race/Subrace - Open to anything Class - Open to multi-classing (leaning away from spellcasters) Any ideas? :confused:
kenobi65 12-18-05, 12:31 PM	Unfortunately, any "adventuring" class is not going to be a good reflection of this character idea you have. Were it an option in LG, I'd suggest using the Expert NPC class from the DMG, but you can't play that class as a PC in LG. "Leaning away from spellcasters" also probably doesn't help, as this PC would need some skills that would make you useful in combat, and it sure doesn't sound like this guy would have any martial abilities to speak of. (Many LG modules are fairly combat-heavy, and a bookish PC who can't contribute in combat may be a definite liability.) He's probably loaded up on skills, however. You might be able to get at some of that via Rogue, but you'll also wind up with a bunch of rogue abilities that, again, aren't part of what you're picturing. Bard might be your best bet, with Bardic Knowledge representing what he's read in his studies. You'd probably want to focus his Perform skills on oratory, rather than music or dance. And, finally, recognize that his ultimate quest (finding and returning this stolen tome to the library) is something that he'll never succeed in. If this were a home campaign, where the DM could incorporate that plot thread in the campaign, it'd be different, but in LG, there simply won't ever be the potential for that personalized "quest."
Simpi 12-18-05, 05:59 PM	:help: I'm wanting to create a character for the new year. I have the idea for the background story, but not quite sure how best to translate it into an LG character. Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain. What is your home region if I may ask? S.H, the guy from Naerie
kenobi65 12-18-05, 08:09 PM	a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain. There's a nice idea. There are several Greyhawk deities that might serve well, depending on how your character views the collection and dissemination of knowledge, including Boccob, Delleb, and Lydia, among others.
SteveMND 12-18-05, 09:08 PM	"And, finally, recognize that his ultimate quest (finding and returning this stolen tome to the library) is something that he'll never succeed in." Not so. This is exactly the sort of role-playing hook that Special Missions were designed for. Mind you, it would depend on the player getting triad approval, finding somebody to write it, etc. but it's hardly an impossibility. That said, such a character might be a little tricky to deal with in LG. Like it or not, the 'average' LG mod tends to emphasize combat over roleplay (there are of course exceptions), and a "bookwormish" character sounds a little lacking in that department. Even so, the idea could still be workable, especially if you have a local gaming group that you would often game with; in such tight-knit groups PCs can and often do evolve to help fill any niches left unfilled. Another helpful factor would be if you are lucky enough to be in one of those regions where the role-playing aspect is emphasized as much as the combat in regional mods.
JohnduBois 12-18-05, 09:12 PM	Here's my advice: Take at least a couple levels of Bard so that you can learn a ton of languages through the Speak Language skill. Honestly, the best bookish characters (Bards, Wizards, Clerics of Boccob) are spellcasters. You can do stuff like pick up one bard level and a ton of fighter levels and go Warchanter, or a mix of Wizard and Fighter levels and go Bladesigner, or some hybrid like that. Loremaster would be a good PrClass to go toward, but that's heavy spellcasting as well...
kenobi65 12-18-05, 09:29 PM	Not so. This is exactly the sort of role-playing hook that Special Missions were designed for. Mind you, it would depend on the player getting triad approval, finding somebody to write it, etc. but it's hardly an impossibility. Good point; thanks for the correction, Steve.
Sieylianna 12-18-05, 09:31 PM	Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain. Another option would be to take the well read feat to access all knowledge skills as class skills and play a rogue or scout for the maximum skill points per level. However, the most coherent character concept would probably be a bard. But make certain that you have something to contribute in a fight or you may have problems finding a party at conventions. Ed
euby 12-19-05, 12:38 AM	Well Read feat would be very good for this kind of character. Bard is perhaps the best character class for what you are looking for, or a very specialised cleric with knowledge domain. What is your home region if I may ask? S.H, the guy from Naerie I'm in the Yeomanry.
solbergb 12-19-05, 02:25 AM	You know, bookworms don't have to be wusses. My wife plays a Kn Domain "Field Librarian" Pholtan cleric. She feels that forbidden books should be secured by her, (read) and then given into the care of the Library of Antigua. So far her penchant for reading all the books hasn't yet got her cursed but she's had a couple close calls. She's also a fairly optomized sacred exorcist. Being a seeker of knowledge that isn't safe for civilians is just one facet of her character. But seriously. Indiana Jones was "just an archaeologist". No reason a librarian can't be "two-fisted". Rogue/wizard or rogue with a splash of bard (whatever gets all kn skills on your list) might be good, with sneak attack being defined as having read up on the anatomy of damn near everything, so you know just precisely where to strike to cause the most pain. With a bit more of an edge, that guy in the Princess Bride who studied "pain" could also be an adventurer, out doing "field research". (after dishing out a sneak attack) "So be honest...this is being recorded for posterity. How do you feel right at this moment?"
Sceadeau 12-19-05, 03:40 PM	Bard. Definately a bard. Bardic Knowledge would be great for you (call it by a different name if you'd like..."Did I read that?" or "Bookworm Knowledge" or "Mental Recollection"). A high int + the speak language skill (only bards have it as a class skill) will give you nearly all languages by level 1 (+4 int bonus is 4 languages, and 4 more from the speak language skill). If you were a high elf, you could have a 20 int, which increases your max languages known at level 1 to be 11 (elf, common, 5 bonus, 4 from ranks). I would put at least 1 rank in each knowledge skill as well. For the perform skill, you'd probably take perform(recite from memory), making "inspire courage" into "impart knowledge of weaknesses" where you basically are telling your comrades the best way to fight whatever it is they're facing (which gives the +1 to hit/damage as always, but here it's because you are providing insight into how to defeat the enemy that they wouldn't have without you). In this way, you have a know-it-all who shows off his knowledge non-stop, without being in any way a hinderance to the party. I would also recommend perhaps Use Magic Device ("hey! I read about to use this is the Deregard's Tome of Inconsequential but Ultimately Usefull Magic Items"). Decipher Script would also make sense for this character.
JohnduBois 12-19-05, 03:52 PM	Scouts also have Speak Language as a class skill. Bards don't need to put two ranks into any knowledge skill... they and wizards have all knowledge skills as class skills...
haferka 12-19-05, 06:07 PM	Wait untill the next revision of the LGCS. Heroes of Horror material IS being added in... .. so there is the off chance that "Archivist" will be allowed.. but I doubt it... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3 4 skill points per lvl. (All Knowledge as class skills) The ability to "learn" ANY divine spell. Full caster progression (base class). but you lean them as a wizard learns spells. You do NOT gain domains, or turn undead, but you gain the ability to grant competency bonuses to the party versus creatures, (apropriate knowledge check) x/day. On the off chance that the "Spell" domain from the new spell compendium is added ... you could learn "Anyspell" which grants you the ability to cast arcane spells. That said... Even if the class was somehow allowed in LG.. I "SERIOUSLY" doubt that the "spell" domain would be, since it was originally from Forgotten Realms, and it eliminates the need for an arcane caster...
flametounge 12-19-05, 09:42 PM	Well, although you'd after to be a spellcaster first, becoming a Loremaster seems the most accurate portrayal of your character.
Sieylianna 12-19-05, 10:27 PM	Wait untill the next revision of the LGCS. Heroes of Horror material IS being added in... .. so there is the off chance that "Archivist" will be allowed.. but I doubt it... I think it's safe to say that it won't be. Chris said any new material would be Limited access and we've never seen a base class with limited access. Look at all the complaining the LG staff has to listen to because warmages are limited to PHB spells until 3rd level. Ed
jhorred 12-19-05, 10:50 PM	I made a character similiar to your idea for a different campaign. I built him as a cleric. Was a clositered/bookish type though clerics don't make for the best knowledge skill types.
euby 12-23-05, 03:46 AM	Thanks, Sceadeau! :tiphat: That's exactly the information that I was looking for. I had kind of planned on the character standing back from the fight and giving ranged support. One further question, as a bard, if I were to get mithral armor of some kind, would there be any arcane spell failure associated? Bard. Definately a bard. Bardic Knowledge would be great for you (call it by a different name if you'd like..."Did I read that?" or "Bookworm Knowledge" or "Mental Recollection"). A high int + the speak language skill (only bards have it as a class skill) will give you nearly all languages by level 1 (+4 int bonus is 4 languages, and 4 more from the speak language skill). If you were a high elf, you could have a 20 int, which increases your max languages known at level 1 to be 11 (elf, common, 5 bonus, 4 from ranks). I would put at least 1 rank in each knowledge skill as well. For the perform skill, you'd probably take perform(recite from memory), making "inspire courage" into "impart knowledge of weaknesses" where you basically are telling your comrades the best way to fight whatever it is they're facing (which gives the +1 to hit/damage as always, but here it's because you are providing insight into how to defeat the enemy that they wouldn't have without you). In this way, you have a know-it-all who shows off his knowledge non-stop, without being in any way a hinderance to the party. I would also recommend perhaps Use Magic Device ("hey! I read about to use this is the Deregard's Tome of Inconsequential but Ultimately Usefull Magic Items"). Decipher Script would also make sense for this character.
Sieylianna 12-23-05, 09:07 AM	Thanks, Sceadeau! :tiphat: That's exactly the information that I was looking for. I had kind of planned on the character standing back from the fight and giving ranged support. One further question, as a bard, if I were to get mithral armor of some kind, would there be any arcane spell failure associated? Mithral chain shirt, no, because it's light armor. Any other mithral armor has a chance of ASF (-10% from base armor). Ed
JohnduBois 12-23-05, 09:12 AM	If you were a bard, mithral versions of any armor that is normally classified as light or medium armor would not provide any arcane spell failure.
flametounge 12-23-05, 01:04 PM	I'm pretty sure High Elves give a bonus to DEX, not INT. So you could really be whatever.
Sceadeau 12-24-05, 04:18 PM	There is a race of elf that gives +int, I guess it's Grey Elf and not High Elf. But I always suffer from a noun deficiency.
curseofgnome 12-31-05, 01:04 AM	I have also been working on designing a "bookworm" character, with tons of Knowledge skills. He'll be a Gnome Bard (with 1 level of Marshal), with the Gnomelore and Trivial Gnowledge feats. The Marshal level (Marshals also have all knowledge skills as class skills) gets me the Motivate Intelligence arua, adding my charisma modifier to all intelligence-based checks for me & my allies. I don't know how the concept will work out, but it has a pretty good Diplomacy modifier, and bardic music from ranks in perform (bookreading).